I am surprised there isn't greater flow separation at the peak of the cab.
I am surprised there isn't greater flow separation at the peak of the cab.
ChrisR said:I have no idea how tall Musk is, but the picture of him standing next to the truck makes it look not to work truck friendly. That's going to be a reach to get anything out of the bed... from the side anyway. Maybe it has got a hidden man step? Seems strange to pigeon hole your truck like that. Kind of like a Ridgeline. You can do "truck like" stuff with it, but.... Seems he is excluding a whole segment of truck buyers. I guess that's not his target audience? And I might add, that backseat looks like it has no headroom.
In fairness, have you seen how enormous the current crop of trucks are? They've had to put in the man-step you describe into their bumpers.
While I do agree with you, and the bed-side height is one of the biggest problems I have with it, what exactly can you NOT do with it that you can with a full size truck? And I'll say take out the 8 foot bed argument, because I just don't see enough of them on the road to make me think its a good argument for a truck (we can just acknowledge they're not getting the 8-foot bed market)
The bed sides are an obstacle, but has anyone reached into the bed of a modern truck? They're T-A-L-L. Even Colorado/Canyon and Rangers are tall.
I do think a same wheelbase 8' bed regular/king cab Tesla truck would be awesome.
I'd totally have one. Had I a better job, I might be one of the 200,000 to put a deposit down.
"Whatever it is I think I see...becomes a cyber truck to me."
wheelsmithy said:The bed sides are an obstacle, but has anyone reached into the bed of a modern truck? They're T-A-L-L. Even Colorado/Canyon and Rangers are tall.
When I want to go into the bed of my 2500 from the side, I stand on the wheel. When I want to get into the bed of my father-in-law's '96 (?) F350, I stand on the wheel :)
I want to see someone mock up the regular cab 8' bed Cybertruck.
wheelsmithy said:The bed sides are an obstacle, but has anyone reached into the bed of a modern truck? They're T-A-L-L. Even Colorado/Canyon and Rangers are tall.
And that is a BAD thing for people who need a truck for to do truck things.
Knurled. said:wheelsmithy said:The bed sides are an obstacle, but has anyone reached into the bed of a modern truck? They're T-A-L-L. Even Colorado/Canyon and Rangers are tall.
And that is a BAD thing for people who need a truck for to do truck things.
People who want to use a truck for what you define as truck things. Hasn't stopped me from doing truck things with mine, but of course those are the things that I consider truck things (bed full of firewood, carrying home a Cadillac 472 on an engine hoist, towing race cars across the country with a bed full of tires, pulling doofuses out of ditches) may not be what you consider truck things.
My first gen Tundra had lower bed sides than my boss' later first gen Tundra. His was better, he could carry wheels/tires stacked two tall where I could only get one level.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I'm looking at the fleet delivery vehicle market, and the contractor market. The people who can get away with not needing an open air bed have gone to vans or hatchbacks. (PT Cruisers and HHRs replaced Rangers after the Ranger supply dried up. I had a roofer client who had a fleet of HHRs with ladder racks...)
To be fair to the Tesla, didn't he say that it was designed to be a truck for people who didn't like trucks.
The problem is that there is a wide variety of what people consider to be truck things. You're looking at contractors and delivery vehicles. I'm looking at my own use and that of my coworkers and family. Around here, the delivery vehicle fleet consists of the most fully depreciated possible vehicle that is capable of self propulsion, so it's 25 years before Cybertrucks will get to that point. The contractors who have been showing up at the house next door are all driving half tons with the bed partially full, so it would work for them.
I still think that a roll-up cover for that bed will make all the difference in utility.
Traditional 'work truck' guys are the last ones on the list of potential buyers for this. Let's not kid ourselves - this is going straight to the suburbs.
In reply to Knurled. :
They haven't made an hhr for nine years.
Whether fleets use these will boil down to cost per mile. I read a pretty convincing article about the sedan Teslas being a fraction per mile to operate as fleets compared to even mid-grade ice sedans (eg fusion). It'll be interesting to see if this truck works out the same and if/when fleets pick up on that.
I will say that the design has grown on me majorly.
In reply to dculberson :
Fleet sales are not entirely about cost per mile, although that's obviously a huge part. A really big deal for fleets is how well a product is supported. How often is it out of commission, and for how long? How easy is it to get parts for repairs? How widespread is their service network and knowledge? This is known as "uptime" in the industry and it's where Tesla is lacking, and they're going to have the same issue if they ever bring their Semi to market as well.
Ford and GM will have fully electric competitors for sale by the time this truck comes to market, and they have dealers and service centers in nearly every small town and city in the country. They have established parts networks and tons of technicians that understand basic things like how to get the right parts in their hands fairly quickly. Tesla doesn't have that. So in addition to having to learn about the new vehicle itself, a repair person also has to learn how to deal with the company and their logistics, processes, etc. Ford is already promoting the support network as an advantage for the Mach E, and they'll do the same with an F150 EV.
If your job depends on buying the most cost effective and available vehicles for a fleet, would you choose the brand new vehicle from a company with no dealer network? The company that's struggled to get repair parts into the hands of shops in a timely manner? Or go with the one that's sold, serviced and repaired in every small town in the country? The one with unique stainless steel bodywork, or the one that shares a body with the most sold vehicle in the US?
In reply to STM317 :
This isn't a fleet vehicle and it never will be. That would be like buying Cayennes as delivery vans.
The vans will be Big 3 or Rivian/Amazon. And they will happen ASAP. The fuel and O&M savings are tremendous.
Doug DeMuro does a good analysis of the Cybertruck vs other trucks Doug DeMuro
dbrand, a maker of die-cut vinyl "skins" for mobile electronics, has announced they're serious about a Cybertruck skin set. They've even put up prices and a configurator on their preorder page. They're also pushing their "Prism" phone screen protector film for the windows in an interesting way.
https://dbrand.com/shop/tesla-cybertruck-skins
Henry Chang has put in a deposit on one. It will be fun to see what he's going to do with it. Here's one of his creations y'all might have seen at SEMA: 
STM317 said:Fleet sales are not entirely about cost per mile, although that's obviously a huge part. A really big deal for fleets is how well a product is supported. How often is it out of commission, and for how long? How easy is it to get parts for repairs? How widespread is their service network and knowledge? This is known as "uptime" in the industry and it's where Tesla is lacking, and they're going to have the same issue if they ever bring their Semi to market as well.
It's not like Ford and GM haven't had their own part supply problems. GM is going through one right now. Tesla's is getting better. The reliability of the S has been quite good in fleets according to what I've seen. Tesloop has one with 400k miles on it and their maintenance costs have been $0.05/mile which is 1/4 a comparable big 3 ICE vehicle.
@Dave M: I'm not so sure about that. The purchase price isn't the biggest driver, total cost tends to be more important. And the purchase price is pretty reasonable for what it is. It also satisfies the buy American requirements of some fleets.
Mike said:dbrand, a maker of die-cut vinyl "skins" for mobile electronics, has announced they're serious about a Cybertruck skin set. They've even put up prices and a configurator on their preorder page. They're also pushing their "Prism" phone screen protector film for the windows in an interesting way.
https://dbrand.com/shop/tesla-cybertruck-skins
I want to see someone order one in full mahogany. Classy AF.
In reply to sobe_death :
Before this gets another page behind, thank you sir. Great explanation. 
In reply to dculberson :
Tesloop has also had 6 battery replacements and multiple MCU failures that needed repair. Have to wonder how long those repairs took, and if they were given a loaner or something. The articles that I've read haven't mentioned anything about vehicle downtime. If it's not available, and making you money than that's a big deal.
They spent about $5k over 5 years on "towing", and Tesloop operates in CA, where there are currently 33 Tesla service locations (By far their largest footprint). How much does the math change if a service center is a 30 minute tow vs a 4 hour tow? There are several states with no service centers at all, and quite a few more with just one or two. How many GM or Ford dealers would that tow truck pass getting to that 1 Tesla service center 150 miles away?
EVs are compelling for fleets, but I'm not convinced that THIS EV will be without a lot more support. Really, it's a crew cab, short bed truck so that's not geared toward the fleet or vocational markets. That doesn't mean it couldn't work for them, but that's probably not the target customer.
STM317 said:
EVs are compelling for fleets, but I'm not convinced that THIS EV will be without a lot more support. Really, it's a crew cab, short bed truck so that's not geared toward the fleet or vocational markets. That doesn't mean it couldn't work for them, but that's probably not the target customer.
Now that we're past the shock and awe phase, these are the questions that will come up. I'm pro-EV, own a Ridgeline, have a SUV and a fleet of 3/4 ton trucks and vans for my shop, but can't see getting one of these. Why?
-It's ginormous. Around town I want something smaller.
-If I'm going to use it for road trips I don't want EV charging considerations
-EVs are perfect for my fleet because our teritory is within a 30 mile radius, but A - I'd trade the second row of seats for bed volume, and B - Tapering side rails are a disadvantage for loading and unloading
So who is the real target audience? All those people who buy quad-cab trucks for family use where a station wagon or SUV would suit them fine. Also, the showoff truck crew. Aaaand that's a huge market, so Musk will probably score another hit. Just not with me. Now if they'd put a van body on the rollerskate - that'd be another thing.
A market for a smaller version of these would be the crawling crew. AWD and massive torque would play well with that crowd. They'd have to install some radical belly pans, though.
In reply to STM317 :
How many Teslas does Tesloop own?
In reply to yupididit :
The story I read said they own 7 and operate another 4 that they don't own. Sounds like they're mostly Model S and Model X, but changing over to Model 3 for fewer expensive bells/whistles (like fancy door handles that break). They put about 17k miles/month on each of them! That means the $$ amounts are big, but for the total miles driven, the cost per mile isn't awful. This isn't a guy driving 20 miles ot work everyday.
STM317 said:In reply to yupididit :
The story I read said they own 7 and operate another 4 that they don't own. Sounds like they're mostly Model S and Model X, but changing over to Model 3 for fewer expensive bells/whistles (like fancy door handles that break). They put about 17k miles/month on each of them!
That's some crazy amount of miles. But that's a fleet business so I guess the mileage is expected. I'm sure Tesla analyzes that data to hopefully better their cars because I bet that's the most miles any group of Tesla's are getting. I wonder what issues an ICE car would have being driven 17k miles a month and how much in towing they'd spend on them.
NickD said:Mike said:dbrand, a maker of die-cut vinyl "skins" for mobile electronics, has announced they're serious about a Cybertruck skin set. They've even put up prices and a configurator on their preorder page. They're also pushing their "Prism" phone screen protector film for the windows in an interesting way.
https://dbrand.com/shop/tesla-cybertruck-skins
I want to see someone order one in full mahogany. Classy AF.
I vote for partial mahogany.
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