Time To Move On?

In reply to NickD :

Well you got yourself a dilemma, nick.  You want more power, brakes, tire but consumables are worrying you.  Another person's build scares you.

Maybe you should stick with what you know/trust and bite the bullet and build up the miata.  Of course, it will end up being a miserable around town car.  I'm afraid ANY thing that floats your boat and ups the performance envelope in relatively  stock form is gonna be pricey AND require more expensive tires/brakes/consumables.  So get your a hardtop, belts, seat and build a mountain motor.

An old pcar mantra... race the Porsche you have not the Porsche you wish you had.

In reply to NickD :

And how many cars run in the class they would be running in?  

C5 Corvette convertible, Miata for men.

How about a FFR Cobra or Daytona?

Looking at the Nationals Results:

https://dk1xgl0d43mu1.cloudfront.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/037/986/2017_Tire_Rack_SCCA_Solo_Nationals_Results.pdf?1506006338

Basically the results show, Corvettes, Caymans, a Camero, the Focus RS, Miatas, S2000, Mr-2S, Mini Cooper, etc.

So I guess, pick what floats your boat?

Sounds like you're burnt out with classing. $8-12k buys a lot of Fox Body or SN 95 Mustang. Modify it however you want, and run it in CAM. 

Going from a Miata to a big car is hard. I miss the $900 set of new wheels and 200tw tires that would last 15-20k miles. I can’t barely get a set of decent tires for that amount for my mustang. 

Driving a larger car hard on public roads isn’t as inspiring to me, not enough room in a lane to use. The thrill of power always goes away, you’ll always want more. 

Make an investment. Get an Alfa. 

Buy something that can compete in CAM mod it how you like and have fun. GTO's were quite competitive for a few years, Sam Strano does great things with 4th gen fbodies. Don't rule out something like an E36 since you can usually also autocross with the BMWCCA and they have better classing for those than SCCA does

I've really pondered your parameters aND have come to the conclusion that what you want (much more power/grip/brakes, comfort as a commuter, long legs as a tourer, track competent, etc) don't exist at your price point.  Increase your budgEt 10 fold and buy a modern 911 or cayman, yeah.   But ain't happening at $8-12k.

The CAM S or C is a possibility with cheap 200tw tires but nationally competitive ain't gonna happen in your budget.  Lot of fun but back of the pack at national events.

You mentioned in your initial post you thought you knew what the hive would conclude.  What did you think we would conclude?

I had considered getting a 'speed Miata and building it into an E/Street car in the hopes that the 60+ extra ponies might be enjoyable,

I only came here to say that Mazdaspeed Miatas arent very fast and probably won't make you feel all that much better.

I too would recommend a stockish C5.

I've really pondered your parameters aND have come to the conclusion that what you want (much more power/grip/brakes, comfort as a commuter, long legs as a tourer, track competent, etc) don't exist at your price point.  Increase your budgEt 10 fold and buy a modern 911 or cayman, yeah.   But ain't happening at $8-12k.

That sounds a lot like an 8-12k C5 you already recommended! 

I know OP isn't thrilled with the possible pitfalls of a C5 but considering being a tech in a GM dealership and all the various types of hookup (mostly knowledge related since most parts are cheap) involved in that, i think it still comes out on top. Especially when you try to find anything else that matches the criteria within the price range. 

In reply to Vigo :

Yup.  But he doesn't seem warm and fuzzy for c5.  Or build an ls powered 4the gen camero.  But he is a GM tech so it sounds like it would be right up his alley.  Or maybe because he's a GM tech he knows better. LOL 

I've not really been a vette hater...more of an indifferent observer.  But I've had more  fun fooling with my clapped out $500 beater challenge c4 than any car in a long time.  So simple. Cheap parts...easy to work on compared to my 911.  And c5 is light years better.

Did I miss a comment about a E36 M3? Sort of splits the difference between a Miata and C5 with power and consumables.  Can be found in reasonable condition in your price range. Maybe even an E46.  The only downside is I'm not sure about autocross competitiveness and BMW reliability is always a bit of a crap-shoot.

IMHO - having had this debate numerous times over the years - if being competitive is a criteria, go look at recent Nationals results and decide what cars at the pointy end you can afford/live with.  This will likely require some compromise on your part.  Buying a car you think you'll like only to discover it is woefully outclassed is a recipe for frustration. BTDT.

Ovid_and_Flem said:

In reply to Vigo :

Yup.  But he doesn't seem warm and fuzzy for c5.  Or build an ls powered 4the gen camero.  But he is a GM tech so it sounds like it would be right up his alley.  Or maybe because he's a GM tech he knows better. LOL 

I've not really been a vette hater...more of an indifferent observer.  But I've had more  fun fooling with my clapped out $500 beater challenge c4 than any car in a long time.  So simple. Cheap parts...easy to work on compared to my 911.  And c5 is light years better.

I would definitely take a C5 any day over the 4th-gen Camaro/Firebird. The Camaro/Firebird has the worst interior ergonomics I've ever seen, simultaneously making me feel a foot too tall and a foot too short at the same time. And the engine bay is horrendous to work on. And you have to swap the rear axle to a Ford 9" or GM 12-bolt before you do anything because they blow up left and right at stock power with good tires. Not too mention that the F-body commands absurd premiums.

Ian F said:

Did I miss a comment about a E36 M3? Sort of splits the difference between a Miata and C5 with power and consumables.  Can be found in reasonable condition in your price range. Maybe even an E46.  The only downside is I'm not sure about autocross competitiveness and BMW reliability is always a bit of a crap-shoot.

IMHO - having had this debate numerous times over the years - if being competitive is a criteria, go look at recent Nationals results and decide what cars at the pointy end you can afford/live with.  This will likely require some compromise on your part.  Buying a car you think you'll like only to discover it is woefully outclassed is a recipe for frustration. BTDT.

I don't like German cars. Not sold on the concept of "German Engineering" as a whole, including all their stupid fasteners. And I work on all my own cars, so that's a big issue. I will admit that I drove a stock later Z3 M Roadster and that was quite an enjoyable car to rip. Near the same size as my Miata with a bunch of grip and so much stones. But every time I look under the hood of that thing when I'm tech inspecting it, I cringe at how that engine is wedged in there. And according to the owner, even with only 30k miles on the clock and it being retired from street use, it's quite fiddly and is frequently in and out of the local Euro specialist shop.

Although I said no FWD, I would consider an 8th-gen Civic Si sedan or a Fiesta ST but I would really need to take them for a hard drive before I would buy them. Unfortunately I don't know anyone in the area who has one that I know well enough to go hammer on.

Are you sure that your thing about German cars is not really a thing about modern cars? 

In reply to dean1484 :

It's 100% a German car thing. berkeleying Torx and triple-square and e-torx fasteners. Stupid wheel bolts.  I find German cars to be needlessly complex for little payoff.

pimpm3 said:

I have really enjoyed my v6 mr2. 

Unfortunately it is not competitive in autocross but I am leaning more towards track days with it.

I think he needs to buy your vette. That was going to me my plan before I won this miata not really thinking I would

NickD said:

In reply to dean1484 :

It's 100% a German car thing. berkeleying Torx and triple-square and e-torx fasteners. Stupid wheel bolts.  I find German cars to be needlessly complex for little payoff.

LOL... Okay...  

Triple-square is more of a VAG thing and less of a BMW thing.  Torx as well.  I didn't buy either socket sets until I started digging into my own VW, which was after doing extensive wrenching on my ex's '97 M3. I've spent a fair amount of time ripping apart a E36 and wouldn't consider one any more complex than the NB I spent some time with.  It's just a matter of what you get used to. I've worked on enough of a variety of cars that all cars have their quirks. There are other personal reasons why I might avoid a BMW, but wrenching complexity is not one of them. To be honest, to dismiss a car for something like that is a bit short-sighted. 

  Nick

As I read through many of your replies- you might as well start doing the engine swap.

One of the most important things that I like to emphasize is that you *LIKE* the car.  So while people will try to use logic and reason to convince you that a Vette or a BMW is a good choice, the fact that you don't like them overrules that.  And, as I just said, that's the #1 thing to really worry about.  If you don't like the car, it does not matter how fast it is, you'll never like it.

So the replacement list is really short- late Z car or a BRZ.   There are a few other possibilities, but those two are well above the rest of them, and realistically, the only two that you have considered as fair replacement.

Actually, there is another possibility, a different Miata.  Not sure which one is a better replacement, but finding one with less squeaks and rattles is also a possibility.

That being said, you've also pointed out that you have an affinity to the Miata chassis.  

All in all, the way I read it (and I could be wrong) is that the risk of doing the engine swap is worth the effort.  Especially when there are some good bolt on improvements that are SP legal.

Unless you want another car, which changes the equation a lot.... And Alfas are a lot different that BMWs.  You don't even need a 100% complete metric set to work on those cars.

There s a whole world of cars out there. What you want is a non-belly button car that is still affordable.  

Corvette is such a car as is Jaguar!! Jaguar has a class that no Corvette will ever have and it's fast and fun. 

Ahhh but it's reputation as unreliable!! It's was absolutely true. Back in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s.  Then Ford bought them and spent hundreds of millions on them. The result is for a while Jaguar was the most reliable most dependable car made. Period!!!  

OK since Tatra bought them that has slipped a bit or should I say other companies caught up and passed them.  But the important bits are still really good.  

Down side of  modern Jaguars?  Most are automatics but then again so is Formula 1 and most really high end cars.  Ferrari Aston Martin Mercedes Benz etc.  Nice company huh? 

So II guess the question is do you want to row your way through traffic or concentrate on driving?  

If Jaguar is still in the running you should know there are really affordable ways to deal with parts for Jaguars.  Parts interchange and you don't have to always go to the dealership plus there are several Junkyards that specialize in just Jaguars, ( my favorite is in Wisconsin) 

Next which model?  Naturally you'll be attracted to the XK series. That's the sports car version. But there is a lot to say about the XJ series.  There are a few XJ-S around with a manual transmission. All of them will be the in line six 4.0 liter. 250 horsepower.  Most of them in England where demand has driven prices up past insane!  

Later Xj series are automatics with  either the six or the V8. While bigger than the XK series they are still nimble enough they can be fun especially the R series ( supercharged) 

those can be awesome!!!

NickD said: I will admit that I drove a stock later Z3 M Roadster and that was quite an enjoyable car to rip. Near the same size as my Miata with a bunch of grip and so much stones. But every time I look under the hood of that thing when I'm tech inspecting it, I cringe at how that engine is wedged in there. And according to the owner, even with only 30k miles on the clock and it being retired from street use, it's quite fiddly and is frequently in and out of the local Euro specialist shop.

If you aren't happy with the autocross competitiveness of your Miata, the Z3 (and a lot of other stuff for that matter) is out.   Or if you found it to be quicker around the course than your Miata, something isn't right with your Miata.

This one's very easy.

You live in Central New York.

You want a car that is faster and uses less expensive consumables.

Oakland Valley Race Park in Cuddebackville was just repaved and expanded at vast expense. It is one of the best tracks in the country.

Get a TaG kart. An engine rebuild for one of those is $300-$900. A set of tires is $225.

I don't think there's another small tire car that does what the Miata does. Certainly none that do it better for what they cost. The rolling 25 year cutoff is still in place for street classes, yes? It's even harder to find something less than 25 years old due to increasing heft and class structure that has pretty much eliminated the lower end FWD cars like the Mazda2 and Fit in favor of the Fiesta ST and it's friends. I personally can't see a way to run a cheap older car and be competitive without dumping a bunch of time/money at it and destroying streetability, and I've been looking. You either go newer (FRS, ND Miata, 4 cyl Camaro maybe, one of the Ford ST cars) and end up with a tires/gas street class car with reasonable consumables, or you go older and build for a street touring class and end up pouring money into a car that is unlikely to be a good street car if it's nationally competitive. It's not that you can't make a fast cheap autocross car, but staying within a class and being nationally competitive while doing that is hard. 

what about a Genesis?