Have a light car with high HP. Main issue is the rear wheels with only 500lbs on each tire.
I am currently running 100TW but since the car is so light they last for ~2 years even though there is alot of wheel spin.
We have moved and now drive in much cooler winter weather than in CA and the tires do not grip well when cold here. This can be dangerous if you brain fade for a second.
I am tooking at 200TW tires but am also worried about heat cycles. I had some R888R tires and they heat cycled out faster than any tire I have run and only used half the tread.
Nitto's NT01 dont heat cycle out and are good to the cords. Yes I know the NT01/R888R tires are 100TW.
So do 200TW tires heat cycle out? Will they help with driving in cooler/colder weather as compared to 100TW?
Any suggestions for 200TW tires to look at? Yes I have read the tire tests here but they dont really mention heat cycles. Am looking for something that lasts and can work in cool temps. Not looking for every last tenth of a second.
Thanks
Scott, now in Chattanooga!
You do not mention your use case for the tires. Street? Track? Autocross? Wet weather?
And forget about the tw rating...irrelevant for what you are asking.
Also...FWD? RWD?
200TWs do get harder with heat cycles, how fast depends on the model, generally stickier ones heat cycle out faster. Generally if you wear them out within 2-4 years and it's not a super-sticky pointy-end autocross tire, they'll go bald before you have to worry to much about heat cycles. Technically all tires heat cycle out but at some point the effect is minor enough that it's hard to tell apart from general aging.
200TW tires shouldn't be driven on in near-freezing temps, a lot of them can crack open if they're even stored in temps in the -10~0C range. They'd only be slightly better than 100TW at low temps, you may need to go with something less sticky in the 300TW-400TW range. I've driven on PS4Ses in near-freezing temps and they were OK, but they can crack open at -7C.
I recommend snow tires for cold weather. If using summer tires in the cold, constant four wheel burnouts are required to keep heat in them. If your tires are too cold you are not driving hard enough, or it's too cold out.
Gameboy is on the right track.
Car sounds like it is RWD and a good candidate for rear aero.
IMO: get another set of wheels and throw some DWS06+ on them for cold weather.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
I wonder how overblown the "possibility" is though. Years ago I drove my Miata on R888s to the track and it was like 28 F outside. I think the first session it was still only about 35-36 F. Just took an extra lap to get some heat in them.
In reply to Andy Hollis :
Thank you for responding!
For the most part the car is a track car that does see some street use. Also The track set up is the street set up.
Car is just to dangerous in the rain with the stiff suspension, hi HP to weight wide tires.
Rear wheel drive with 450 RWHP.
Thanks Scott
In reply to GameboyRMH :
I have been reading that some tires heat cycle out as soon as 10-12 cycles. I am looking for good grip that pretty much stays consistent through out the tires life and I dont need to be too concerned about the cold.
NT01 are supposed to be good to the cords might just go back to them and be careful in the cold.
What do they do at track events where it was below freezing in the morning?
In reply to flyin_viata :
Rear aero being looked at. Another set of wheel also a consideration, but those are custom wheels, ouch $$$$$.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
How fast do 200TW tires heat cycle out approximately?
Stalker_LS3 said:
In reply to Andy Hollis :
Thank you for responding!
For the most part the car is a track car that does see some street use. Also The track set up is the street set up.
Car is just to dangerous in the rain with the stiff suspension, hi HP to weight wide tires.
Rear wheel drive with 450 RWHP.
Thanks Scott
So...no wet use, no freezing use...mostly track, some street. Got it.
Option 1: Yokohama A052...lights off quick with just a little bit of working. Very good grip, especially longitudinal.
Option 2: Conti Extreme Contact Sport 02. Works immediately even at temps in the 20-30's. Easy to drive. Will save your butt if you get caught in the rain. Not as good on track as A052, but decent. Tire of choice for One Lap of America.
Option 3: Toyo R888R. Best street tire for longitudinal grip. Used extensively in street tire drag racing. LOUD on the street. Ok on track, but will overheat quickly on warmer days.
In reply to Andy Hollis :
What a great useful reply, thank you!
I used the R888R once and they heat cycled out quickly. I did like the longitudinal grip....... when it was there.
Been eyeing the A052's will take a look at them closer.
Thanks
Scott
In reply to Stalker_LS3 :
How fast tires heat cycle out depends on the tire, but 10-12 cycles is way too little, those are racing slick numbers. Pointy-end 200TWs might take 50-100 heat cycles to harden and the rest are probably well into the hundreds - again to the point that it can be hard to tell whether the hardening was caused by heat cycling or general aging. Also as most 200TWs harden the loss of grip is slow and minor compared to a racing slick. Rather than going from sticky to hard and hopeless within just a few heat cycles, they lose that new-tire edge after a while, then have good grip for a much longer time, and only become hard and hopeless much later in their lifespan.
As for what to do at track days where it's freezing in the morning...well it depends on how much grip you want to have or how melty you're willing to make the tires later on. If you want as much grip as you can get at some point in the day and you know it's going to warm up later, you run the stickiest tire that won't get damaged by the early cold conditions, and just take it easy when it's cold. Or you could run a tire that does better in lower temperatures letting you run harder when it's cold, but when it warms up those tires will get too hot, costing you grip and causing the tires to disappear faster. You'd never have optimal grip but this might be a better way to keep a high-powered lightweight car on the pavement.
Conti ECS02 is pretty similar to Michelin PS4S, BTW - not the stickiest on track but a great all-round performance tire with good road manners and amazing wet grip.
Vitour Tempesta P1...............................................well, somebody had to say it...right?
In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :
I was just coming in here to ask about these.......
Anyone have experience with Vitour tires?
Just found this: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/vitour-tempesta-p1-tire-test/
Think I want a tire that is more stable.
In reply to Stalker_LS3 :
The P1 performs like a purpose-built autocross weapon and wears like a middle-of-the-road 200TW tire, neither of which suggest decent cold-weather performance. Since it also doesn't like too much heat they could hold you back on track days. Note that GRM was still getting their best times on the first few laps even with an ND.
Being I now live where it actually gets cold,CO, will street driving to/from events 50-150miles on 200tw tires destroy the tires? Is the warning just for racing loads or any use?
Has anyone ran 200tw at highway speeds and suffered a tire failure?
Cyclone03 said:
Being I now live where it actually gets cold,CO, will street driving to/from events 50-150miles on 200tw tires destroy the tires? Is the warning just for racing loads or any use?
Has anyone ran 200tw at highway speeds and suffered a tire failure?
If your car is garaged at moderate temps, the core of the tires will be well above freezing. Driving on them will keep them above freezing. This is how you make it work.
The issue is allowing the tires to cool below freezing. That alone can crack the tread (I have seen this). Worse, driving on a summer tire that is already below freezing will risk even more severe damage.
In reply to Andy Hollis :I really don't know why I didn't introduce myself when I raced my Mustang with SASCA and still lived in Cibolo.
Thanks for the info.
The car,and tires,live in the garage. What might kill me is if I overnight to hit a race near Denver. My 50 mile drive to PPIR should be good.
Really sounds like I need travel tires and a box trailer. And a generator,and space heater,and jack and tools and.....damn.....
Cyclone03 said:
The car,and tires,live in the garage. What might kill me is if I overnight to hit a race near Denver. My 50 mile drive to PPIR should be good.
Really sounds like I need travel tires and a box trailer. And a generator,and space heater,and jack and tools and.....damn.....
This is why I'm not a fan of the GRM Challenge being rescheduled to March...
I just replaced some nt05s with the new g2 555, which is in the opposite direction at 300 treadwear. They seem pretty nice so far, but they've not touched a track. The old nt05s would literally just spin through intersections at 2000 rpms . . .
