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F600 getting dropped from runoffs because it's "incompatible with other classes," while FF and FC get combined. F600 runs almost the exact same lap times as FF, so shouldn't it be more "compatible" with it than FC?
time to start looking at other organizations, I guess
gixxeropa said:F600 getting dropped from runoffs because it's "incompatible with other classes," while FF and FC get combined. F600 runs almost the exact same lap times as FF, so shouldn't it be more "compatible" with it than FC?
time to start looking at other organizations, I guess
Total agreement. We got shafted.
Yeah the F600 thing surprised me a bit, particularly since it kind of had a recent (in racing rules terms) shakeup of allowing the bike motors in and that seemed to be juicing the class a bit.
SCCA road racing has always faced a tough battle in general. For so long it was considered the standard, particularly when barriers to entry for road racing were equally high across the board. Now we live in a world whre barries to entry are mostly quite low—except for SCCA—and there's widespread crossover among the low-barries groups. So there's a reduced incentive anymore to campaign a car with little relevance on a wider scene and a lot of hoops to jump through before you even get started.
It's going to be difficult to maintain a high standard on legacy alone for too long. Luckily that legacy was strong enough that it can keep things going until they find a real formula for growth, but it won't last forever.
It's been nearly a year since I sold my F500 but hearing F600 is being dropped is heartbreaking to me.
I simply don't understand why SCCA is so hyperfocused on dropping classes.
They could have found a home for F500.
If less than an average of 4 cars show up to a Majors event is it really a viable class? Some classes may be destined to be regional classes, unless they can build back up their numbers.
hopefully another org will pick it up. maybe FRP
failing that I've always thought the thunder roadsters were neat, so maybe i'd look at swapping over to NASA
i think if you enjoy the performance of a F600, you will be disappointed in a Thunder Roadster.
In reply to Purple Frog :
looks like maybe 3 seconds a lap slower, 1:13 vs 1:16 at roebling, I imagine they feel pretty different to drive besides the motorcycle engine part.
I think they've got a driveshaft instead of a chain, which appeals to me given that I destroyed my body when I lost a chain at my last event
In reply to gixxeropa :
Rivet or clip master link?
I just switched from clip to rivet after losing a chain at my last autox. I'll accept having to disassemble some to swap ratios to avoid more fiberglass work...
A lot of talking on the FMod/F6 Facebook group about revitalizing the class. I think our biggest hurdles are needing a place to buy a new car with clear advertising and getting videos out promoting the class.
I do want to say, in this day and age of bigger and more complex street cars I believe the future of racing depends on purpose built race cars. If we lose a class that is the most boiled down, simple, fast, and cheap racing in general will have suffered a loss.
In reply to Apexcarver :
Chain stayed intact, a shaft collar wiggled loose and allowed the chain to come off the sprocket. Spun around the rear axle like a hula hoop and took out the bodywork and part of the diffuser
You guys realize that it was dropped from the Runoffs only. You can still race them at the regional level.
There were 8 F600 that showed up at the national race in October. Same amount in the Super Tour earlier this year.
I empathize with anyone that has one but Does 8 cars warrant a national class?
RX8racer said:You guys realize that it was dropped from the Runoffs only. You can still race them at the regional level.
There were 8 F600 that showed up at the national race in October. Same amount in the Super Tour earlier this year.
I empathize with anyone that has one but Does 8 cars warrant a national class?
It's not.
The tough part is this class used to get 25 cars and F-Mod has full grids.
It's tough to see a class with 40 years of history scratched from the RunOffs.
There are 36 Major events. To maintain Runoffs stature a class needs 144 entries in those events in one year; an average of 4 entries per event. In coming years they will need 180; an average of 5 entries per event.
To the average person on the street that doesn't seem an unreasonable goal.
The classes that have fallen by the wayside for lack of participation: FB, S2, FM, F500, GT4, GT5, STO, GP, SSB, SSC. With GTL, GT3, and AS to follow.
But as mentioned above, all those cars can enter regional events. And, if they can get their numbers back up, rejoin the party, as BSpec has done.
In reply to Purple Frog :
I can pick em...........I've run three of those classes. I've also run DSR, now P2 which is morphing in to a new class yet again.
In reply to Tom1200 :
I think a good part is that a lot of those f-mod cars would need to be ripped in half to replace the roll bar in order to road race.
There might be people still making fully new cars but it's kinda hard to find info, which is its own problem
In reply to gixxeropa :
My car no longer met SCCA road racing rules hence my racing it in vintage.
Purple Frog said:The classes that have fallen by the wayside for lack of participation: FB, S2, FM, F500, GT4, GT5, STO, GP, SSB, SSC. With GTL, GT3, and AS to follow.
GT-4 and GT-5 were combined into GT-Lite several years ago. GT-L will now lose their rear wings and be absorbed into F-Prod.
A-Sedan will be rolled into either T-1 or T-2, I don't remember which.
GT-3 will be combined with STU, with 150lbs added, as well as losing slicks and going to DOT rubber, like Hoosier A7 and R7. We're still waiting on clarification on whether new tube-frame GT-3 chassis will be allowed in the combined class, or if it's only already logbooked cars being grandfathered in. There are a few new builds in process out there, so there are some questions waiting to be answered.
gixxeropa said:F600 getting dropped from runoffs because it's "incompatible with other classes," while FF and FC get combined. F600 runs almost the exact same lap times as FF, so shouldn't it be more "compatible" with it than FC?
I get dropping classes from nationals for low turnout, but this particular combination being used to force a nationals eligible grouping comes across as SCCA effectively valuing suppliers over members and basically tells F600 to F-off. This apparent bias disappoints me, as I have long believed that F600 is probably the closest positioned class to lead a bigger picture resurgence in lower level formula car racing under the right organizational leadership... If SCCA was interested in such things.
I have long believed that F600 is probably the closest positioned class to lead a bigger picture resurgence in lower level formula car racing under the right organizational leadership... If SCCA was interested...
If it were, racers would have flocked to it. They didn't. Racers buy the cars and participate - in whatever class interests them.
I empathize but your frustration seems misdirected.
In reply to RX8racer :
You seem to either be arguing that organizational decisions have little effect on what classes racers flock to, or that said decisions have been made by the right organizational leadership... Either way, I dissent.
The SCCA has just deprioritized formula cars a ton, go on their website and note the ratio of pictures of tin tops to formula cars (hint: there's a ton of production cars and 1 formula car way at the bottom) F600 is just the first victim of this imo
I wish they'd have a formula/sports racer run group in TNIA or something, but that's just a pipe dream
In reply to gixxeropa :
It's a bit of both; with the advent of track days and really good track day cars formula cars have been slowly pushed out of many peoples minds.
SCCA has not helped as they are between a rock and a hard place. They are trying to stay relevant.
I can buy a car that will spank the likes of a GT3-RS for 50K but said car is not as easy from an ownership perspective. Said car also cannot be driven two and from the track.
When people move to wheel to wheel racing they go with what they know.........and that's typically door slammers.
Tom1200 said:When people move to wheel to wheel racing they go with what they know.........and that's typically door slammers.
Yeah, door slammers are a lot more accessible to new racers, you can grow into it by starting with a dual purpose street/track car. There are more opportunities to drive them, and they're a lot safer in a crash than older formula cars.
I've occasionally thought I'd like to drive a formula car to see what it's like, but haven't been able to find many opportunities to just try one. Around here you can easily rent a Spec Miata, Spec E46, or Spec Racer Ford, but I haven't found anyone renting formula cars.
There are people renting F600, but it seems to be more popular in the East coast. I'll probably rent mine out some coming up.
Formula cars are more intimidating starting out sure, but the performance is addicting and you get nice visual feedback when you lock up a wheel :)
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