curtis73 wrote: Latest is a V6 Caddy SVX and it struggles to get 18 with AWD.
SRX or SVX? BIIIIIIIIIG difference in vehicles, I get close to a 20mpg avg out of my SVX, but with steeper gears and a lightweight flywheel, it begs to be ran through the gears at an aggressive pace.
Chris_V wrote: if you buy a diesel for $16k and in 5 years it's worth $10k, vs buying a gasser for $10k and 5 years later it's worth $5k, did you really save money buy buying the more expensive truck? No. Which is why I went from diesel to gas. My current tow rig will be cheaper to own, even with resale factored in.
In a quick search on craigslist for 10 year old Silverado HD's, I'm seeing gas trucks more so be in the $10k range, while equivalent diesel trucks appear be closer to the $25k range. So for the buyer that can afford to do so on their new Silverado HD, it appears that the $8400 (today's cost) extra on the front end seems that it might just be financially be well worth it.
Of course when you start talking about a secondary or tertiary vehicle for limited use that is being purchased on the flat end of the depreciation curve, assuming it's been reasonably well maintained and is in solid physical/mechanical condition, the newer and/or more expensive one rarely makes sense from a purely financial perspective. Hence my original statement specifically relating to new, or at least newer, vehicles. To that extent, for little more than occasional hauling/towing duties, it would be even more financially prudent yet to get the already 5 year older gas truck for $5k...That in another 5 years is worth $3k.
Tangent Warning: I've always found it ironic that a diesel (or hybrid) powertrain seems to be the only option on the list that people regularly criticize for not paying for itself. For some reason, arguments are rarely raised to an optional gas engine that is also deemed 'more desirable', even though it adds to both the buy in cost AND the operating cost, and even for those who the additional capabilities of the optional gas engine are never actually going to be necessary. Nor are many arguments made that going to the next trim level or adding any comfort/convenience options, let alone aftermarket 'upgrades', do next to nothing in regards to paying for themselves either.
Thinkkker wrote: My brother has a V6 gas Ram. He has gotten 27-28 on the highway with it. Now, he drives AT the speed limit or possibly under a bit. So that means 70-75mph tops. But still
hmmm, the EPA rating is 25 mpg highway. Are you sure he's getting 27-28? What I see in mine, is that the truck is most efficient at about 65 mph, and thats where I've seen as high as 23 mpg. What style cab/bed does he have?
Not to mention the 'more desirable' optional gas engine, that adds to both the buy in cost AND the operating cost, even for those who the additional capabilities are never actually required.
People on this forum scare me with their desire for more power for towing with. Most of the car towing i've ever done was with ~150-175 hp and the 360 Ram i've started towing with lately probably has the worst power/weight ratio of my past and present 'tow vehicles', but all of them have been fine. I understand having to tow across mountains at high elevation, but most people don't have to. Unless you're towing all the dang time i really dont think power is much of a factor except as the scapegoat for an impatient personality. Safety first! But also hard acceleration while towing! Both! FOR SAFETY.
Reg. $1.95 Diesel $3.45. Both at the same Speedway station this morning. Even if diesel costs more in the winter, Reg. still looks pretty good to me.
In reply to Vigo:
If you have ever had to shuffle a 12000 pound load in rush hour traffic you will want all the power you can get under the hood. BTDT often.
I still don't tow with a diesel. Not worth it to me.
Nope, sure haven't. I pretty much only tow cars and that sounds like about 3 cars worth and a trailer big enough to tow 3 cars. I may have a lot of cars, but i don't tow no 12000 lbs worth at a time. Neither do 99% of anyone else or 100% of the people trying to get 30mpg unloaded.
Although... i will still do a jig when a truck exists that can get 30mpg under normal driving and also be 'rated' to tow 12k lbs. The Ecodiesel ram is tantalizingly close already.
Regarding the price of gas vs diesel, the severity of the current dip in gas prices is a politically driven temporary condition...Do not expect this to be the new normal.
Lof8 wrote:Thinkkker wrote: My brother has a V6 gas Ram. He has gotten 27-28 on the highway with it. Now, he drives AT the speed limit or possibly under a bit. So that means 70-75mph tops. But stillhmmm, the EPA rating is 25 mpg highway. Are you sure he's getting 27-28? What I see in mine, is that the truck is most efficient at about 65 mph.
I have not ridden with or done the calcs on it, but yes he has exhibited enough proficiency to do the math.
From San Antonio to Houston is straight and flat. And given his driving style I believe it. This is on long trips where he is driving 200 miles straight with no real change in elevation or speed.
I will say, this was done on 2 trips, one direction. I think on average normal runs he is closer to 26-27. So it may have had favorable wind conditions too.
In reply to Thinkkker:
Not surprising at all. EPA highway figures have been VERY easy to beat in every vehicle I've ever driven, especially so on extended flat land drives. This is because the 'highway' test cycle is not based on typical interstate style steady-state driving.
Driven5 wrote: Regarding the price of gas vs diesel, the severity of the current dip in gas prices is a politically driven temporary condition...Do not expect this to be the new normal.
Normal here is about a 50-75 cent premium for Diesel. So what you get for premium gas or a little better really.
Driven5 wrote: Regarding the price of gas vs diesel, the severity of the current dip in gas prices is a politically driven temporary condition...Do not expect this to be the new normal.
Ok. What do you see as the political motivation/ goals?
In reply to SVreX:
Google: falling gas prices saudi arabia
In reply to SVreX:
As I understand it OPEC is trying to kill USA shale oil efforts (which would make the USA oil independent) by driving the price low enough it's not cost effective. Also punishing Russia for whatever. I doubt this cheap oil will last more than a year.
In reply to Kenny_McCormic:
So then we go back to where gasoline is only 80 cents to a dollar cheaper than diesel? That was the norm around here, except for the occasional blip, for the last several years.
I'd still prefer to not have that diesel smell all over me, my clothes, my shoes, then finally my ride's carpets. I won't stop for gasoline where they share pump islands with diesel. You can hardly avoid stepping in the drippings on the pavement.
Yes using gasoline might, might, cost me 3-5mpg. I'd probably do the same thing even at par per gallon prices.
However it's different when buying fuel in Europe where costs for gasoline are out the roof because of excess taxation. I usually rent a diesel ride when on my own buck and a gasoline ride when on the company's card. And generally over there, diesel doesn't stink anyway.
In reply to Rupert:
I think the smell is one of those things the proponents just kinda get used to and forget about. It's happened to me, spending a fair amount of time on a boat with a diesel leak last summer. I still notice it, but it's a background thing now.
Driven5 wrote: In reply to SVreX: Google: falling gas prices saudi arabia
I thought you meant US politics.
Is that politics, or business?
curtis73 wrote: Who only gets 42 out of a TDI? The two I had for work you couldn't get less than 47 if you tried. And a new 5.3L won't break over 20 even with a tailwind. Are you using EPA numbers, or actual reported numbers? Cuz EPA is kinda way off on many vehicles. but still... you accepted the challenge nicely. I shall regroup *sneaks away behind sinister cape*
Yes, EPA numbers. I think those are the most comparable figures.
Don't get me wrong. I like diesels, I just have to play devil's advocate sometimes. It's a personality issue.
In reply to SVreX:
There are few things more globally political than oil.
The biggest oil company in the world is "nationally" owned by Saudi Arabia, and their government gets 90% of its revenue from oil/gas. So yes, I would consider just about anything that they do related to oil production as political...Especially when its being used to wage an economic war, with global ramifications.
Vigo wrote:Not to mention the 'more desirable' optional gas engine, that adds to both the buy in cost AND the operating cost, even for those who the additional capabilities are never actually required.People on this forum scare me with their desire for more power for towing with. Most of the car towing i've ever done was with ~150-175 hp and the 360 Ram i've started towing with lately probably has the worst power/weight ratio of my past and present 'tow vehicles', but all of them have been fine. I understand having to tow across mountains at high elevation, but most people don't have to. Unless you're towing all the dang time i really dont think power is much of a factor except as the scapegoat for an impatient personality. Safety first! But also hard acceleration while towing! Both! FOR SAFETY.
I've tried to merge and/or go up hills (and for many of us, hills are a regular obstacle. This isn't Iowa or Illinois) with low power tow vehicles. Not going to do that crap anymore. That's why my 8.1 liter is so nice for towing. Just doesn't care that there's 8000+ lbs back there if you have to merge, or get out of the way of someone ELSE who is merging without looking. So yes, it actually is about safety. Sorry, you are so misinformed.
basing long term decisions on current gas/diesel price spreads is not a good tactic.
anecdotal anomoly vs. returning to the mean.
Might be a good time to buy a diesel truck though if people start knee jerking out of them. 
twolittlebroncos wrote:curtis73 wrote: With extremely rare exceptions, diesel is ALWAYS the cheaper fuel choice in terms of cents per mile of fuel. I challenge anyone to dispute that using apples-apples comparisons.Jetta TDI - 42 mpg highway Here are the gasoline equivalents depending on the gasoline/diesel spread: 20% spread - 35 mpg (pretty much every car in the class)
Nope.
My mk6 TDI does in fact get about 42mpg, mostly highway, lifetime total average over ~20K miles now.
Show me an equivalent gasser sedan that actually sees total average usage of 35mpg.
There are very few modern equivalent gassers that I can drive like a normal car at 80mph on my interstate commute and see 35+ mpg overall average.
I'm not saying they don't exist, but many are painful tiny motor econobox, and not really "every car in the class" when attempting apples to apples.
I've tried to merge and/or go up hills (and for many of us, hills are a regular obstacle. This isn't Iowa or Illinois) with low power tow vehicles. Not going to do that crap anymore. That's why my 8.1 liter is so nice for towing. Just doesn't care that there's 8000+ lbs back there if you have to merge, or get out of the way of someone ELSE who is merging without looking. So yes, it actually is about safety. Sorry, you are so misinformed.
If you tow a really heavy rig around a lot of hills and default to acceleration rather than braking while towing, then sure, you definitely need a 500 cubic inch motor to fit your driving style and towing choices. As i said, i tow CARS and i dont have a big enough trailer to tow 2 cars (8000+ lbs you say). Kind of amazing how so many UPS and FedEx drivers manage to drive through E36 M3ty situations all day long with even worse power/weight ratios than the ones that you cant be bothered with. I would like to see the UPS truck you would build.
I dont tow for work, only for myself, and i've never intentionally towed anything anywhere that i actually needed a big engine to feel safe doing. I guess im just spoiled!
Vigo wrote: ...Kind of amazing how so many UPS and FedEx drivers manage to drive through E36 M3ty situations all day long with even worse power/weight ratios than the ones that you cant be bothered with. I would like to see the UPS truck you would build.
All the current UPS trucks around here have LS V8s in them. They phased out the diesels last year. The drivers love them. They had some major reliability problems with the diesels.
VW Touareg TDI tows 7700lbs and gets 30+ MPG unloaded on the freeway.
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