Trucks confuse me. (Suspension/steering content)

I'm putting together a list of everything i need to completely refresh the suspension/steering on my XJ Cherokee to do at the same time as the lift kit.

This steering system drives me batty, and i think some of it is due to how Rockauto lists some stuff, and the rest is that i don't have any idea how trucks work.

Does anyone have a link or experience that they can tell me EXACTLY what i need to replace well... everything? Cost-effective upgrades welcomed, i'm a big fan of "maintainifying."

What i have in my cart so far:

1) Moog front and rear sway bar links. (Open to aftermarket "upgraded" suggestions.)

2) Front upper and lower ball joints. (4 in total)

3) Left and right upper control arms. ($20 a pop, seemed easier than messing with bushings. Lift kit already came with lowers)

4) Tie rod ends. This is where i get really confused. I have this diagram i'm working with: http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Knowledgebase/Image/tjsteering%281%29.jpg

I have front right inner ("normal" looking), Front right outer (looks to be the "drag link"), and Front left outer. (I'm confused... do i need two of these?)

I also need sway bar bushings, badly. Any way to tell which size i need without getting under there with calipers?

Worth getting poly bushings for the sway bars and the upper control arms? (instead of just buying the new control arms with rubber.)

Am i missing anything? Any awesome upgrades i should be looking at?

I'm so confused. I like cars.

You link to the 'TJ' steering, use the XJ one

http://www.quadratec.com/jeep-replacement-parts/jeep-steering/xj-steering.php

This shows that the sway bars got larger as the years went by and you should be able to determine the size (except for the 90-93 have two sizes): http://www.quadratec.com/jeep-replacement-parts/jeep-suspension/xj-suspension.php

Hmm... Inverted Y steering linkage. A common upgrade for my '95 Cummins is to swap the steering system spec from a '97 2500 which connects the control arms together directly with a drag link from the box the tie rods. Apparently this setup is less prone to bump steering or something. Of course, Rams of my era are none for crappy steering and there are a bunch of upgrade parts and braces to "fix" it. Don't know if the jeeps of that era were also known for this.

Converting from an Inverted Y to an Inverted T on my 96 RAM 2500 4x4 CTD was the best thing I ever did.

Look at ditching the inverted Y setup. Its a terrible design only popular because of accountants.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: 3) Left and right upper control arms. ($20 a pop, seemed easier than messing with bushings. Lift kit already came with lowers)

Are you sure these don't have ball joints already in them?

This is what I'm wishing I'd done for my van as I dread trying to unscrew the giant ball joints using a specialty socket that cost half the price difference between ball joints and control arms...

ransom wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: 3) Left and right upper control arms. ($20 a pop, seemed easier than messing with bushings. Lift kit already came with lowers)

Are you sure these don't have ball joints already in them? This is what I'm wishing I'd done for my van as I dread trying to unscrew the giant ball joints using a specialty socket that cost half the price difference between ball joints and control arms...

No balljoints in those, just bushings.

Any reason NOT to just do this?

http://www.quadratec.com/products/56110_06.htm
+
http://www.quadratec.com/products/56117_06.htm
+
http://www.quadratec.com/products/56117_04.htm
= Win?

Add balljoints, endlinks, swaybar bushings, and control arm bushings of my choice.

Or is it going to be enough cheaper through RockAuto that i should continue trying to decipher what they're listing?

Ugh nevermind... i can't afford that. To get everything through Quadratrec i'm looking at about $620.

Back to the drawing board.

New question: With stock sway bars, if i lift 2.5-3", will i need something other than stock endlinks?

I want to say doing the ball joints involves pulling the front axles, so do the u joints while you're in there.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: I want to say doing the ball joints involves pulling the front axles, so do the u joints while you're in there.

Ok thank you! I'll look into that.

Is a Pitman arm a wear item that should be replaced?

[edit] No, no moving parts on this Pitman, so we're good.

Anyways, here's where i'm at so far.

FIVE U-joints?!?!?!?!

For your lift you'll want to look into aftermarket sway bar links.. what lift kit are you getting?? does it come with an adjustable track bar or a drop pitman arm?

As for your jeep why not just check your front end before ordering parts and replacing everything?? Its really easy to do... Just about everything in the front end of the jeep wares out some point.. Some less common things are the frame cracking around the steering box.. The bolts coming loose for the bracket that holds the front track bar.. The bolt hole the front track bar attatches to ovals...

Front u-joints are a good thing to do if you have it all apart.. ABS shafts have a different U-joint then non ABS shafts...

crazycanadian wrote: For your lift you'll want to look into aftermarket sway bar links.. what lift kit are you getting?? does it come with an adjustable track bar or a drop pitman arm? As for your jeep why not just check your front end before ordering parts and replacing everything?? Its really easy to do... Just about everything in the front end of the jeep wares out some point.. Some less common things are the frame cracking around the steering box.. The bolts coming loose for the bracket that holds the front track bar.. The bolt hole the front track bar attatches to ovals... Front u-joints are a good thing to do if you have it all apart.. ABS shafts have a different U-joint then non ABS shafts...

I've already got the Rancho 2.5" lift kit. Didn't come with adjustable track bar or drop pitman. It DID come with new lower control arms, though.

Adjustable sway bar links kindof put a damper on things. Granted, i haven't looked REAL hard yet, but what i've found seems absurdly expensive.

In terms of front end... it needs ball joints and at least outer tie rods. A lot of this is a preventative thing to ensure that i won't really ever have to do anything but brakes and oil changes on this thing the rest of the time i own it. Everything on it is original and 180k miles old as far as i can tell. It drives mostly fine, but doesn't feel as tight as it should, and there's some popping going on up front in really tight low speed turns.

Either way... nothing down there looks GOOD.

Also, on any vehicle that will be seeing off road usage, grease fitting on all your front end components and u joints are recommended. The sealed stuff gets water in it, and then you can push it out with fresh grease.

With a 2.5" lift you are border line when it comes to the need for longer sway bar end links.. If I was on a budget I might try it with the stocker ones first.. If they are at a crummy angle then I would switch them out.. I wouldn't buy any new ones just yet though... Biggest thing is to check them for binding or funny angles with the suspension at full droop...

You are getting into the territory where you might need an adjustable track bar.. Once again if you are trying to do this on a budget I would try it first with out..

happy trails bud.. post up some pictures when you get it done...

crazycanadian wrote: With a 2.5" lift you are border line when it comes to the need for longer sway bar end links.. If I was on a budget I might try it with the stocker ones first.. If they are at a crummy angle then I would switch them out.. I wouldn't buy any new ones just yet though... Biggest thing is to check them for binding or funny angles with the suspension at full droop... You are getting into the territory where you might need an adjustable track bar.. Once again if you are trying to do this on a budget I would try it first with out.. happy trails bud.. post up some pictures when you get it done...

Seems the forums say 3-3.5" is the limit for stock stuff, but i'm not sure how tolerant they are of weirdness compared with stock. I won't be real tolerant in this case, since it's my fiancee's daily driver, and i'm trying to not make it WORSE for that capacity.

I think i'm going to grab some swaybar drop brackets. Seems way cheaper than extended disconnects, and this isn't a crawler truck, so disconnects aren't really necessary just now. And this way, i can use stock endlinks.

Basically the idea here is an eventual expedition vehicle, not some crazy-articulating rock rig.

I appreciate the help!

Drop brackets sound like a good solution...

You'll be really happy with XJ as an expidition rig.. They work great.. I have one that I use for taking my family camping in.. All though mine gets driven hard, there isn't a straight pannel on the body..

crazycanadian wrote: Drop brackets sound like a good solution... You'll be really happy with XJ as an expidition rig.. They work great.. I have one that I use for taking my family camping in.. All though mine gets driven hard, there isn't a straight pannel on the body..

Cool i'll definitely grab those, then.

I got under the truck yesterday and gave it it's first good once-over.

The balljoints are in great shape, so i won't replace those. They are greasable, though, so i'll do that at least. The U-joints seem fine as well so i won't mess with those.

The tie rods definitely need to be replaced, and the swaybar mount bushings are destroyed.

Also discovered a coolant leak... can't tell at the moment if it's a bad cap, lower radiator hose, or the radiator itself.

IF it's the radiator... anyone have input on a quality replacement radiator that won't break the bank?

I'm also interested in converting to electric fan "while i'm in there." Anyone have tips, tricks, or an awesome write-up?