Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:
I never thought the Tesla grille was a problem. Why does it need one? Form follows function.It actually reminds me a Corvair.
The Corvair has the advantage of a chrome bumper, to help complete the 'face' of the car. (Because I'm old, I also prefer round headlights on older cars, since they give the car eyes. 
) As for the decal for the front end of the Tesla, I got curious recently and did some looking - there are multiple options, including several different style decals as well as some stick on grilles.
I'm not seeing how you find a Bolt under $20k. The lowest I have seen is low 20s after the *maybe* tax credit. I'm at the point where I would seriously consider one, if I were staying in this house. I am moving to an apartment though and an EV is a non-starter as there is no place to charge. Hopefully that gets fixed in the coming years.
There's nothing wrong with the Tesla 3 duck boat nose that a nice Horsey Horseless wouldn't fix.
In reply to ProDarwin :
I have seen a lot of new apartment complexes add chargers as an amenity and some building codes actually require it. Some of the ones I am seeing aren't even connected to a payment system so residents with Evs are essentially driving for free.
My better half and I are leaning towards going EV. She can't drive my car (stick) and we have a single width driveway. I don't care for automatics much so finding something we can both drive for the 30 or so miles max we are likely to drive 90% of the time seems like a winner. What we are struggling with is finding a sedan (trunks are more secure than hatches) with 4 doors (dogs) that doesn't need either of us to be "intuitive" to get the ac or radio to work.
I have driven several model 3s as rentals for work and found the drivetrain and chassis to be spot on for my needs. ... the rest not so much. What have you driven that best fits the reasonably sized sedan category with traditional control feel?
ProDarwin said:I'm not seeing how you find a Bolt under $20k. The lowest I have seen is low 20s after the *maybe* tax credit. I'm at the point where I would seriously consider one, if I were staying in this house. I am moving to an apartment though and an EV is a non-starter as there is no place to charge. Hopefully that gets fixed in the coming years.
Its a theoretical car, like many of the "starts at $16k*" where * means "As equipped $26k". Finding that bare bones, bottom dollar base bolt is pretty hard. Likely has to be special ordered.
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ProDarwin said:I'm not seeing how you find a Bolt under $20k. The lowest I have seen is low 20s after the *maybe* tax credit. I'm at the point where I would seriously consider one, if I were staying in this house. I am moving to an apartment though and an EV is a non-starter as there is no place to charge. Hopefully that gets fixed in the coming years.
Yeh, we aren't going to satisfy everybody's needs right away.
If I lived in an apartment without access to my own charger I doubt I would think an EV is the best for me.
It's not fair. I'm know that. But that can't be helped.
With regard the price of a bolt. It really depends on where you live. In my state between federal and state tax incentives that's a $10,000 deduction. In California. It's a $15,000 deduction and I'm not sure how much Oregon's is.
I've heard some city's also have incentives though I have no idea of what they are or how much.
All of those deductions presume you pay at least $7500 in federal taxes in a year.
Again it's not fair to everyone. But then you can't take a property tax deduction if you don't own a house. Or medical deduction if you don't spend enough. Or charity deductions if you don't give enough. Etc.
Tom Suddard said:Javelin said:I was really looking forward to the Mazda MX30 EV, but they already canceled it. I don't think they even sold it on my state yet.
I lost track of that one. Did they ever sell any rotaries to consumers?
As far as I know the MX30 RE just started production and is a JDM only product. I'd be surprised if any made it to consumers yet.
Anyone here have experience with the EV West conversions for air-cooled VW's?
https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=168
They certainly aren't cheap. I've been meaning to research if something similar could be done for more GRM friendly prices. I wouldn't mind a Meyes Manx type buggy with electric power.
In reply to mblommel :
Ooof... $20k for 90 miles? That sounds.... terrible. The idea of a VW with instant torque sounds phenomenal. Sticky rear tires and wheelies.
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Purple Frog (Forum Supporter) said:When I recently bought the GR86 I thought it would probably be the last gas car I'd be buying.
My work truck is approaching 200,000 miles. Almost every day it's pulling a trailer. I fear, based on how its used today, (loads, driving distances, available charging, etc.) if I had to replace it, the numbers would point at another ICE.
I'm interested in watching Tom's life with the Lightning. I'd be more interested to see if it will still be active in the GRM stable 5 or 6 years from now since many of the buyers have to mortgage them that long.
I'm reading that this massive heat wave thru the South is having a negative effect on EV range. And, I'm interested in how safe old lighter cars will be if they tangle with these heavier battery cars.
I'm keeping an open mind.
Since the Tesla Cyber truck is actually in production. That provide another option. The current production only offers 350 mile range I don't know when the 500 mile range ones will go into production.
At current prices ( though they fluctuate ) they are cheaper than Ford or Chevy's offering. Plus massively roomier in the cab. Tesla has a 6&1/2 foot bed, compared to Fords 5&1/2 foot and Chevy's 4&1/2 foot bed.
The real advantage is the Tesla supercharger network which reportedly can charge faster than Electrify America charging network.
So if you leave with 500 mile range 15 minutes of charging ( with version 4 chargers) will get you between 150& 200 extra miles. Now towing depends more on aero than weight. So if your trailer sticks up like a garage you can't get as far as an open deck trailer will get you as far. Fords towing of a enclosed trailer, got them about 100 miles. The Tesla is actually lighter so it may have a greater range towing?
ProDarwin said:I'm not seeing how you find a Bolt under $20k. The lowest I have seen is low 20s after the *maybe* tax credit.
Starting MSRP is $26,500. As far as I know the stories about $20k Bolts all assume the full tax credit.
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In reply to STM317 :
Depends on your state too. California offers an additional $7500 Colorado $5000 Oregon is generous, Minnesota only offers $2500
frenchyd said:In reply to STM317 :
Depends on your state too. California offers an additional $7500 Colorado $5000 Oregon is generous, Minnesota only offers $2500
Not true.
https://electrek.co/2023/06/30/ev-tax-credit-rebate-states-electric-vehicles/
This lists all rebates and tax credits available for all states. California is currently $5k grant on applicable. Different counties and cities offer different things but the state as a whole only offers $5k.
Oregon is only offering charging station rebates currently.
"At current prices ( though they fluctuate ) they are cheaper than Ford or Chevy's offering. "
Since none have been actually delivered, we'll see about price. Other attributes aside, it's a behemoth. I MIGHT consider one if I lived in an area with more elbow room, but for now, the biggest vehicle I'd buy would have a footprint similar to the Maverick. I'd really like to see a new Honda Element with an EV drivetrain, but the lousy aerodynamics would adversely effect range.
Edit: I want to keep this constructive and not go down the negativity rabbit hole, but there's a lot of inherent waste in unnecessarily large, well anything, but vehicles are a prime example. Seeing these 8-10,000 lb trucks that are primarily going to be used as station wagons kinda chafes my hide. At least let's not fool ourselves by talking about how green they are.
In reply to frenchyd :
Zero Cybertrucks have been delivered, and no one knows the price. That makes it a make believe vehicle- not allowed in this thread.
In reply to bobzilla :
Huh. Nothing in MN. Go figgar...
It sounds like towing is the real Achilles heel for the EV truck, although I'd love to hear how the experience is compared to a regular truck. And what are the tow ratings?
Let's say that your main desire for towing was a travel trailer and going to campgrounds. If you have a 50-amp hookup for the camper, is that something that can be used for charging the tow vehicle? If I were putting together a camping trip, I could totally see planning it around having 90-100 miles of range with some stops for top-off recharging and then getting a "fill-up" at the campground over a day or two before moving on to the next place.
In reply to bobzilla :
Yeah the range ain't great but the youtube video of the owner driving a converted type II looks like he's having a blast. Not sure I want to drive a dune buggy more than 90 miles anyways. The lack of fast charging is a real problem though. I'm willing to bet it could be done cheaper the GRM way.
In reply to wae :
Seeing how much a travel trailer kills fuel economy in an ICE. I would think an EV would suffer equally.
My Touareg goes from 23 mpg highway down to 14-17 with my 6x12 enclosed trailer. That takes my range from over 600 miles to under 450. That's a significant reduction. Towing a wall is going to kill economy no matter what you hook it up to. I would expect to see an EV suffer as much. Being able to charge at camp would be kind of cool though.
In reply to mblommel :
The killer is to get more range, you have to add more batteries, which adds more weight which kills the fun of that platform. I understand why they limited it the way they have, just one of those catch-22 things. You can have a fun, light platform OR range. You cannot have both lol
Toyman! said:In reply to wae :
Seeing how much a travel trailer kills fuel economy in an ICE. I would think an EV would suffer equally.
My Touareg goes from 23 mpg highway down to 14-17 with my 6x12 enclosed trailer. That takes my range from over 600 miles to under 450. That's a significant reduction. Towing a wall is going to kill economy no matter what you hook it up to. I would expect to see an EV suffer as much. Being able to charge at camp would be kind of cool though.
Our Sierra is the same. 22 to 15 with an open trailer and car at around 5k lbs.
In reply to Toyman! :
Beyond a doubt. I'm just wondering if there are options to use the existing campground infrastructure to lessen that pain assuming that you can structure (or restructure) the trip such that you're within the effective range of the vehicle once you're hooked up.
So for me there are two scenarios that EVs could work for us.
1. A city runabout for my wife; it would need to be 20K or less and close to the same size as her Santa Fe.
2. A tow vehicle; 35K tops (I'd seel the current one to offset the price), have a 350 mile range, and capable of towing 3000 lbs.
These may not be very realistic but it's where I'm at.
In reply to bobzilla :
Yep, it's a spiral. I know they're working the energy density problem but it's a definite issue. This kinda reminds me of the 80s when I was flying R/C planes. The first electric ones that came out were using adapted 540 car motors and heavy nicad packs. They had great thrust but dropped like a rock once they were out of juice due to the higher wing loading. 25 years later they've made some amazing advances with smaller motors and lighter packs. Maybe the same will happen with cars.
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