What makes a car good in the snow?

Driver first,

Tires second,

Weight over the drive tires third,

Weight over the steering tires fourth.

Snow tires make it all so much easier. I listed this as second to the driver, but it's the most important thing on the car itself. And I don't mean mud or all terrain tires, I mean snow tires. A hundred zillion sipes on the tread to dig in.

Pickup trucks suck in the snow because the tail is light so the tires spin. Even with great snow tires. That's why you see people piling snow in the bed, so they can get some traction. It's not so much an actual poundage issue, it's a balance issue.

Old VW Beetles also sucked in the snow, not because you couldn't get them to move, but because you couldn't steer them once they were moving. A car with a nose light enough to be picked up by hand doesn't have good directional control. Cutting brakes were almost a winter time necessity with old beetles.

One of the best snow cars I ever had was an early fox body Mustang with a 4 cylinder and automatic. The balance was pretty good, and with that weak engine and a slush box, I could ooze along without breaking traction. Equipped with snow tires, that thing was virtually unstoppable in the snow. Only when it would belly up in a deep drift would it finally stop moving. Similar an old Falcon I had. The mighty 4x4 will get stuck in snow with relative ease because those A/T tires are actually not very good in snow.

Soft suspension helps, in my experience, especially changing lanes over significant furrows - the car follows the surface and gets less unsettled.
Ground clearance absolutely becomes a limitation in the truly deep stuff: you can only push so much snow. You can, however blast through piles of snow with a bit of momentum. I've very, very run into conditions where you need to drive somewhere and didn't have sufficient ground clearance - I DD a 964 C4 in the snow with zero worries, and would lower it a bit without worrying about significantly diminishing it's snow prowess.

LSD is a great addition to your snow plan, but lets face it, very few FWD cars are so equipped. I've driven RWD and FWD in the snow and still would rather have (properly prepared) RWD. Tall, skinny snow tires and some ballast for RWD will get you where you need to go if you pay attention. If you absolutely cannot get around without 4WD w/ snows either:

1. You're in so deep you have no business being out unless it critical

2. You're way up in mountains somewhere and should have thought about it further.

3. You're just plain doing it wrong.

I've got a Saturn SC2 with 195/65/15 snows. It gets along, but 185's would be a little better. The 1987 Firebird I had was shockingly unstoppable with 205/70/15 Winterforce tires and 200lbs of ballast.

+1 again on snow tires. Far and away the single most important (and most overlooked) factor on the car itself. (Not that anyone around here knows that. Everyone buys SUV's for driving in snow, then opts out of buying snow tires because, "it doesn't snow that much in Columbus anyway.")

One overlooked thing, fairly far down the list, but rarely mentioned, is decent shocks. The replacement of my blown original shocks for new ones on my 4Runner significantly improved braking on slick surfaces.

Its all in the tires and weight over them. I never had much trouble in winter with my iron block FWD cars on cheap all seasons. Then I bought a alloy block 1ZZ Prizrolla, which gained 15hp and 5 ft/lbs(assuming 1.8 liter), and LOST 108 LBS, probably all off the front end from the prior gen A series car. This car sucks in snow with tires that I used to love in snow. Thing was so terrifying I actually bought snows for it.

CrashDummy wrote: But what if all of the cars in question are FWD cars with an open differential? If all of the cars were on snow tires, is there any reason that one would be better (or worse) than the others in the snow? Lets throw a few cars out there just as examples for this discussion: Toyota Prius vs. Mini Cooper vs. Mazda3 vs. Honda Accord. If all of the above cars are automatics and have snow tires mounted, would some be better or worse in the snow than others? Why?

Out of those, I would expect the Prius to be one of the worst. Weight distribution isn't great, and really fine throttle inputs are difficult with the combination of the electric motor/engine combo. The changes in output between electric motor/gas engine aren't very noticeable in normal conditions, but they'll create plenty of traction problems in the snow (or even light rain). I drove my 1st gen in a snowstorm a while back. It was not terrible by any means, but if you really need to baby the throttle to get going, a traditional automatic torque converter is a better option.

If I were limited to a FWD non-LSD car and wanted to make a good snow machine, I'd remove the front swaybar and get some skinny snow tires.

79 Ford Fiesta w/ 155/70r12 hakkas. One of the funnest day in a car ever, was an ice race on Lake Winnebago, Wi. Feb 1985.

I'll beg to differ on the early Beetle sucking. Mine was far and away the best in snow. And I never had an issue turning. In fact, I was driving behind a slow driver in a bad snowstorm in the Beetle. I was getting antsy so instead of being a SHP to the guy, I whipped into an empty unplowed parking lot and had fun for a while putting some distance between me and the slower car (only to catch back up to him a mile or two away).

In reply to ShadowSix:

Right after snow tires I would also list LSD. A few winters back my buddy and I made several multiple night business trips. We always left our rides in the airport parking lot. He had a Ford Explorer 4x4 at the time and I had a 2x4 Ranger pickup with LSD. Often when we got much snow in the airport lot while gone for days, I'd have to pull him out.

The way you park at our local airport is side of the vehicle against the curb on the lot road. Guess what, the snow at the curb often turned to ice. So his front and rear wheel would both spin on the ice. My LSD would not spin much on the side with the ice, rather it would transfer the torque to the side that was more clear. So I could start and then pull him to where his drive wheels weren't on the ice anymore. And yes, I kidded him pretty heavy each time it happened!!

In reply to Rupert:

That's when you sneak your left foot over to the brake pedal and put progressively more pressure on it till you start moving. Or parking brake in a RWD car. This is more or less how those "e diff" setups work, just applies the brake on the spinning wheel.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: In reply to Rupert: That's when you sneak your left foot over to the brake pedal and put progressively more pressure on it till you start moving. Or parking brake in a RWD car. This is more or less how those "e diff" setups work, just applies the brake on the spinning wheel.

Have you ever tired this? I've heard it before but haven't had the oppurtunity to verify it.

Frank Sprongl finished 3rd OVERALL a few years ago at Rally Pierce-Neige in Quebec in a Production Class Suzuki Sprint, against a field full of AWD Subaru's and Evo's. Driver and Tires!

Frank is known to be a master in slippery conditions.

In reply to Mmadness:

Before I discovered the wonders of snow tires, I did it all the time.

I like my 5speed Mazda 2 with snow tires. A lot like my old rabbits. And I can turn off the traction and stability control when I'm hooning it around. The electronic nannies aren't that intrusive however. I can Scandinavian flick pretty well even with the switch left on.

mtn wrote: A good nut behind the wheel.

I was thinking of the GRM board over the past few days. We got some decent snow on Thursday night and it left some lovely plowed hardpack in my neighborhood. I was taking laps around my block doing downhill handbrake-kick Scandanavian flick drifts onto my street over the past couple of evenings. Hooningan status: achieved.

2000 Civic DX sedan, Hakkapalettas and former auto-x car control skills.

To me the most important is the driver. Many times when I lived in PA I would have to drive the neighbor's cars up the hill to our houses so that I could then get my car up to the house.

Second is tires. There is no substitute for good winter tires.

Third would be setting the vehicle up. Adding weight for balance, etc.

In reply to Mazda787b:

+1 for XJ being damn near useless in 2wd. Almost maddening.

Someone mentioned front heavy fwd cars oversteering like crazy in snow.

True. But fun.

gamby wrote:

mtn wrote: A good nut behind the wheel.

I was thinking of the GRM board over the past few days. We got some decent snow on Thursday night and it left some lovely plowed hardpack in my neighborhood. I was taking laps around my block doing downhill handbrake-kick Scandanavian flick drifts onto my street over the past couple of evenings. Hooningan status: achieved. 2000 Civic DX sedan, Hakkapalettas and former auto-x car control skills.

also works with FWD cars.. a light application of the regular brakes. If done right, this will lock the rears (when on snow) without bogging the car down. gives a nice amount of control to your slides

In reply to Swank Force One:

Try a sunfire with the twist beam rear and front swaybar, that thing would reliably lift throttle oversteer on command in loose stuff. Awful car, but it was semi entertaining in snow in a "I'm gonna try to kill you" sort of way.

Weight overall has a lot to do with it too. I've spent a couple of winters daily driving a rwd Opel Kadett and with good tires that 1700#car will drive circles around a lot of 4wds.

Probably a combination of things, as has been said many times above. My personal best winter car was a mid-eighties Volvo 240 wagon. The Scandinavians certainly know how to make a winter car. Fast warmup, hell's own heater, and perfect snow driving dynamics. I added Nokian Hakkas to complete the beast. The only thing that could stop it was a rapidly deteriorating engine wiring harness.

ebonyandivory wrote: I'll beg to differ on the early Beetle sucking. Mine was far and away the best in snow. And I never had an issue turning. In fact, I was driving behind a slow driver in a bad snowstorm in the Beetle. I was getting antsy so instead of being a SHP to the guy, I whipped into an empty unplowed parking lot and had fun for a while putting some distance between me and the slower car (only to catch back up to him a mile or two away).

That's what I expected from mine. Instead, I regularly went past streets I wanted to turn into because the damn thing wouldn't turn. It would just slide along, proceeding straight ahead. Had that Beetle for several years, with several different tires on it. Just didn't matter, turning in the snow with it was terrible.

I am amazed how well my honda cr-z does in the snow. It did well with worn all seasons, it does well with new all seasons. It is by far the best fwd car I have ever driven in the snow. Open diff and all. Amazing defroster.

My father bought my mother a pontiac vibe a few years ago, I put snows on it as it is pretty bad, it is just okay with snows.

My (newer) challenger with narrow snow tires did not do that well in the snow. Clutch LSD, 2 tons, manual trans, practically 50/50 weight distribution and the snow tires made (just) it manageable.

My xj cherokee had a "lunchbox" locker in the rear, and usually rock hard old tires. Truly a tank, but not subtle. I was doing 4wd donuts in an empty parking lot, miss-judged and ended up slamming into a curb at speed. The jeep just jumped over and kept going. I have seen lesser cars bend control arms from similar shenanigans. Although there truly is no feeling like getting into your jeep and plowing through 3' of snow using nothing but throttle. Strong heater too.

When I had an '89 corvette on 295 summer tires, it was just a miracle I never wrecked it..

My k-cars and 2nd gen camry were pretty decent fwd cars, I just can't get over how much better the cr-z is.

To answer the question, in my opinion, tires are a crutch (a necessary crutch if you drive any reasonable amount in snow). My autocross and crash history would not make anyone think of me as a naturally skilled driver. I think it is therefore, part car, and part ~how much you like said car.

I'll change my mind now. We were just out driving around in my Chev Astro (2wd) with Winterforce snow tires all around.Roads haven't been plowed and we just walked through today's accumulation of 8-10 inches. I have to wonder how an AWD version would go in this crap.

Best car: 1984 Supra P-type, 5 speed, LSD and IRS. Cheap Cooper snows and 200lbs of sandbags in the hatch.

Worst car: 2006 F150 4WD, stock Michelin all seasons. Even with 4WD engaged, the rear end was so light, it would try to swap ends. Driving to work over the dozen or so bridges/overpasses was downright scary. I hated it.

I once high-centered our 2010 Expedition at the end of our driveway due to the plow leaving a 2 ft high berm. I even got a decent run at it. Nothing like carrying your 8 month old daughter and 15 month old son through a foot of snow. It took me a solid 2 hours to dig the Expy out.