Whats SXS for rallycross?

Its looking like SCCA is going to adopt a SXS class.  Rather than fight it, I'm leaning toward joining.  Who's got experience racing these things?  I'm leaning away from the turbo models for cost and simplicity reasons.  I joined a SXS racing group on facebook and their consensus seems to be the yamaha YXZ for the popular n/a choice.  Its got a manual sequential transmission, which sounds fun and will keep me from battling broken CVT belts.  The CanAm Maverick X3 has a really sweet stance, but I think they're only available with a turbo and are quite expensive.   Who wants to buy a V8 Ranger? :)

yamaha yxz

Canam maverick

Lof8 - Andy said:

Its looking like SCCA is going to adopt a SXS class. 

IS?  Or might?

Is there an official announcement?  If the rules are undefined, I certainly wouldn't buy one yet.  

They use the YXZ at Rally Ready for some driver drills and have been very happy with them the last time I talked to them. They are terrifyingly fast on the stage roads through the woods. You do have to drive them a bit different than a car to keep off the roof, but they're a good time. 

In reply to ProDarwin :

The recent article was in the SCCA monthly publication. Sure seems like it's going to happen according to that article. But good point to wait for the rules. I'd like to discuss them anyway if anyone here has knowledge. 

ProDarwin said:

Lof8 - Andy said:

Its looking like SCCA is going to adopt a SXS class. 

IS?  Or might?

Is there an official announcement?  If the rules are undefined, I certainly wouldn't buy one yet.  

 

Is, rules are pending approval, but there are enough of the right people in Topeka that want it that it is not a question of "if".

The RXRC voted on a preliminary ruleset and it was submitted to the board shortly before the whole Covid-19 mess started to rain down, so I have been under the assumption that this is where the holdup lies.

What should be noted is that it is being brought in as a Regional only class, and regions are allowed to not run it, so you need to get with whatever region is hosting your events and check with them.  SxS seems to be a very polarizing subject, some regions desperately want it and other regions are all "hells to the no" and there seems to be little in-between.

I would expect that full face helmets and possibly even no exposed skin is going to be one of the rules.  I don't remember if that was discussed but given that these are not closable vehicles, it's safe to make that assumption.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Already checked with my guys. My region (central Florida) is in. As soon as SCCA makes it official. 

No experience with actual SXS but I spent more time in college building SAE Mini Baja cars than I spent doing actual college work.  I think you're on the right line of thinking there staying away from the belt driven SXS like the RZR and Canams.  CVT clutch tuning and belt cooling is a dark, dark magic.  The guys that are good at it are on the same wizardry level as old NASCAR carb whisperers.  You need heat in the belt to make them work but not too much so you need to vent them somehow but can let any dirt get in there because it'll destroy the belts.  We only had 10hp but would go through a belt every other 4 hour race.

I'll be following this class development closely, I miss offroad racing.

Locally, I am pretty excited about the new class.  It sounds like it will bring in new people.  Raising the average event size from 25 to 40 people will make everything run more smoothly.

I talked to a region chair who suggested he would only run SxS if he didn't have to fill out paperwork every time they rolled.  They run at an offroad park and the regulars take over the course after the SCCA events end.  It sounded like more cars were on their sides than on their wheels.  Beer may have been involved so take their performance with a grain of salt.

I am curious what is going to happen with rule 3.2.F which currently prohibits tires designed for ATVs.  I have a 1200lb car that fits 10" wheels and I sort of want to run ridiculous mud bogger tires.

In reply to ojannen :

ATV tires would only be allowable in the side by side class.  They will still be not allowable for production cars.  This wasn't even up for discussion 

To be honest, I am waiting for tires to be cracked down on in the prepared and modified categories.

Anyway, isn't there a rule that if you roll a vehicle, you are done for the rest of the year?  Or maybe that was an old rule that didn't make it to the new ruleset.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

I mostly want the street cred.

Agreed on the tires.  The rally retreads and the autograss tires seem pretty reasonable.  Some of the stuff in Mod Rear is pretty ridiculous.

Back to SxS discussion.  How are they on headroom?  I am 6'6" with a tall torso and I don't fit in many cars.  I ended up bumping out of stock in my current rallycross carso I could swap out a seat to get a little lower.  I would like to pass a broomstick test if I pick up one of these.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

I would expect that full face helmets and possibly even no exposed skin is going to be one of the rules.  I don't remember if that was discussed but given that these are not closable vehicles, it's safe to make that assumption.

I would expect wrist restraints also.

I think there could easily be rules governing which SXS are eligible though.  Some of the less high performance models have a less than favorable height vs. track width so it wouldn't surprise me to see a rule around that.

Assuming safety is properly addressed, this is very cool.

Read through the artice just now. Wrist restraints or full body covering required. 62" min width, some unstated min wheelbase. Roll structure must be undamaged with no signs of previous rollovers. So I guess people are going to have to have a stock of upper cage structures and put a new one on after every event?

dps214 said:

Read through the artice just now. Wrist restraints or full body covering required. 62" min width, some unstated min wheelbase. Roll structure must be undamaged with no signs of previous rollovers. So I guess people are going to have to have a stock of upper cage structures and put a new one on after every event?

I think 62" min width eliminates a lot of the ones that would be rolling all the time.

dps214 said:

Read through the artice just now. Wrist restraints or full body covering required. 62" min width, some unstated min wheelbase. Roll structure must be undamaged with no signs of previous rollovers. So I guess people are going to have to have a stock of upper cage structures and put a new one on after every event?

Maybe it didn't make the cut or was omitted for brevity in the article, but I recall a max vehicle height or max ground clearance being proposed.

I am pretty sure people will be allowed to lower their vehicles or install wider wheels to meet the rules.  All the same, I bet that if people start rolling on a regular basis, the class will be reconsidered, because that much of a liability would make them a losing proposition.  Nobody would be having much fun if insurance skyrockets.

This looks pretty awesome

I imagine you could go a little lower on a rallycross car.

i like the honda talons because they have a real transmission instead of a cvt.

In reply to ojannen :

I would think that is too high for safety.  Stage rally has the benefit of being run on roads, roads don't rut up nearly as fast.  Depending on course design and number of entries, you might have 500 runs in a day,  on a course that is one car wide in the corners.  This is where many regions are looking at it with trepidation.

If they allow these, the argument for having to have a hard top on a Miata is weakened a bit.

A Miata with a good roll-bar probably offers as much, if not more protection than a side by side. 

also this throws a wrench into my rallyx car plans since i would like a sxs as well and this will 2 birds with 1 stone

That does look awesome. 

I am honestly looking at a RZR RS1 (the single seater) 64" width but is $6k less than any of the other 64" wide sxs'

Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) said:

If they allow these, the argument for having to have a hard top on a Miata is weakened a bit.

A Miata with a good roll-bar probably offers as much, if not more protection than a side by side. 

Hard tops, full window netting, and arm restraints will probably be mandatory, I guarantee it.  (Guarantee a probably?  )

Non OEM hardtops are allowed in Mod now but you have to have a certain level of secondary rollover protection, and IIRC you still have to have all windows or netting.

rzr rs1 15K, the rest of the 64" 2 seat sxs' are 20k

There was a good article in Racecar Engineering about what went into building a SxS for the Dakar. I will have to dig it up, but it was kinda surprising how little they wound up doing to it for that level of event. 

im waiting for the rules release to see what all is legal