If your looking for used look for genie lift trailers....
If your looking for used look for genie lift trailers....
I like those Futura trailers but they are wide. Like 8'5", when the maximum to be legal on the road non-commercial is 8'6".
The issue I see with all of these in the GRM spirit is the axle mounts. Most Torsion axle mounts are at 60" centers. These would have to be at the ends. It seems possible to modify a current trailer to do this if you are comfortable welding on axles.
The mechanism is just a lever with a winch to pull it down and spring loaded pins to lock. Cool idea.
In reply to Keith Tanner:
I've looked at all of them over the last 6 months. I like the air ride better than the spring set up. I think it will end up being more compact as well. Maybe.
+1 on Futura trailers---- looks like a clean design that would be easily serviced if something did go wrong. Look for them at the Ultimate Track Car Challenge / Hyperfest weekend, as they will be on display for all to see.
FlightService wrote: You guys need to stop messing aroundhttps://www.youtube.com/embed/brOGiCsSOvU
Can you imagine how many cars each of us would own if picking up some derelict scrap heap was as easy as this??? 
Pete Gossett wrote:FlightService wrote: You guys need to stop messing around Video of the greatest GRM tool everCan you imagine how many cars each of us would own if picking up some derelict scrap heap was as easy as this???
We all would have the next 30 years of challenge cars in one weekend?
After I saw this thread, I emailed Airbaggedtrailers.com figuring if you guys think it's a good idea.....well, he should probably be advertising with us. 
Here's his response, which explains his novel trailers a bit more:
Hi everyone, I'm Nick from Airbagged Trailers. Joe Gearin emailed me this thread so I can answer anyone's questions or clear anything up.
There's a few options in the lowering trailer market, and each has their own pros and cons, so depending on your priorities, each will suit different requirements. My general thoughts are: (hopefully unbiased...)
Airbagged Trailers: Lowest approach angle, widest loading width, and smoothest towing (this really has to be experienced to understand how good it is). More expensive than traditional trailers, due to substantially higher manufacturing cost (we're working on a lower-cost design though to address this) and high spec as-standard (winch, alloys, tool box, etc). Made in USA with almost entirely USA-made, top quality parts and materials
Hydraulic-lift trailers: Will raise and lower but has no suspension so will tow like a fixed-axle trailer (ie. not nice). Expensive. Good system for very high capacities. Only automotive trailer we're aware of like this is Nevco, from Australia.
Cable-lift trailers (Futura): Lighter and lower price, but narrower load area and higher approach angle than Airbagged Trailers. Has leaf springs so will tow like a conventional trailer. Made in NZ (I believe with imported frame and components made in Asia).
Genie-lift trailers (as posted by java230 SuperDork): Designed for industrial use, so much too small for cars, and the tall sides would make it impossible to open doors anyway.
Hopefully that's a fair summary. If anyone has any questions or thoughts, I'd be happy to discuss. If anyone would like to check out our product, the best place to do this is on at www.facebook.com/airbaggedtrailers. Lots of up to date photos and videos there.
Nick
Very cool that he's interested in discussion. The trailers look really cool, but the last shot in the video seemed to have a large amount of side-to-side roll. Any thoughts on that?
That's the other side of having suspension that moves!
I'd be interested in converting my dual axle leaf spring trailer to airbags. That might be an interesting project. It looks like you have to disconnect the trailer from the vehicle to get the lowest load height, which makes sense. I've only seen the Futura in action and it was attached to the truck at the time.
My original concern about the airbagged version is failure mode, as you're relying on those bags to stay inflated. Then I remembered that I use airbags on the tow vehicle!
In reply to FlightService:
challenge rules may change some.
Bring your fleet, one car per event, one budget for the whole fleet.
I'm really interested in the smaller aluminum ones, something that wouldn't put me over the weight limit of the jeep or the Vic while it carries the miata.
I'll really be paying attention to toymans build, not like I have the tools, skill, or money to pull it off myself.
Keith Tanner wrote: Then I remembered that I use airbags on the tow vehicle!
Airbags only, or as supplements to metal springs?
Airbags are standard issue on most big rigs and trailers running down the road so I don't think reliability should be an issue.
I was pretty impressed when this setup rolled up next to me at an open lapping night a year ago, the Subaru felt a little inadequate once they were out on track.
Adam
ultraclyde wrote: Very cool that he's interested in discussion. The trailers look really cool, but the last shot in the video seemed to have a large amount of side-to-side roll. Any thoughts on that?
Yeah it does look like it sways slightly at the end of that original video, which is odd, as I towed that thing up and down the length of NZ (with a car even, which unfortunately is common in New Zealand [I now know the error of my ways]) and it always towed great. It was the very first prototype though, so was a less than ideal design and more of just a proof-of-concept. The main issue was that it only ran two shocks and they were conventional type, which I found out later that they don't function when laid flat like we have them. This is why we run Bilstein monotube (offroad racing) shocks on the trailers, on all four wheels, and the production one in the US handles amazingly. Also being longer and wider than the original NZ one helps too. I need to get some more videos done of it on the road to show this. Happy to demo it to anyone though (we're based in Riverside, CA).
Here's the production version for comparison, which was 100% redesigned from scratch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkkAzgyvo5w
Keith Tanner wrote: That's the other side of having suspension that moves! I'd be interested in converting my dual axle leaf spring trailer to airbags. That might be an interesting project. It looks like you have to disconnect the trailer from the vehicle to get the lowest load height, which makes sense. I've only seen the Futura in action and it was attached to the truck at the time. My original concern about the airbagged version is failure mode, as you're relying on those bags to stay inflated. Then I remembered that I use airbags on the tow vehicle!
Converting a normal trailer to airbags is possible and isn't too much work, however will be quite different to our setup. The easiest way to do it is to set up a two link (or a four link) system with a panhard bar. You should be able to get parts off the shelf (or easy to fabricate some basic suspension links), as well as all the air supply stuff from any airbag parts supplier (here's mine: https://www.universalair.com/). You'd want to use drop axles rather than regular straight ones. It likely won't get the end on the ground but you should drop the frame enough to make things much easier.
Regarding a "failure mode" for our trailers, we have a couple of failsafes. The first is suspensions safety stops which flip into place before towing, which prevent the trailer from accidentally being lowered while driving. In the below photo, you can see them on the rear suspension, in the "up" position, out of the way. 
The secondary safety feature is that each of the airbags is individually plumbed, so if there was to ever be a leak in a fitting for example, the other three bags should support the trailer up ok, at least to get somewhere safe to fix it. As you know with your tow vehicle, airbags are well proven tech these days, and used on all heavy transport too. We haven't had any air leak issues from any customers yet.
I also found a better photo of the shocks. Made in Germany, they're a really nice bit of kit. 
Sorry I forgot to answer the question about approach angle of the trailer attached and detached. Tbh laying it 100% flat is more for attracting attention at shows, and long term storage, and isn't needed for loading as it makes almost no difference. Here's a picture and some dimensions. For reference, the load length is 18' (including the 3' ramp) and the frame is 3" tall and goes to 1" at the end.
This photo was taken after delivering this trailer from California to New York. We've towed our demo trailer long distance as low as 4" off the ground, but 6"-8" seems to be perfect for most, as it is less likely to scrape when entering gas stations or driveways. Worst case though is to quickly air it up if ever there's something to get over/up.
In reply to Pete Gossett:
HA! As if not having one ever stopped me!
Eric Odreas has a 4 door 4wd 3500 chevy pick up that has that deal mounted on the frame. They took out the rear wd and it is pulled by the Fwd. Easy peasy oh yeah and his trailer wheels tilt out as it drops down for entry to the car on the trailer. Pretty Kool
codrus wrote:Keith Tanner wrote: Then I remembered that I use airbags on the tow vehicle!Airbags only, or as supplements to metal springs?
Supplements. Allows decent suspension compliance when unloaded (which is actually pretty rare) and lets me level out the rig regardless of what I've got tied to the back.
It makes sense that you'd have to go with monotubes, most (but not all) twin tubes only work when upright. What's interesting is that you use shocks at all, most trailers don't bother. I'll bet you get better tire life with them.
Any trailer with air or leaf springs should have shocks. The ones that don't are just people being cheap. The shocks help tire life, but they also make it tow a lot better. Torsion axles don't typically need shocks though, they're reasonably well damped on their own.
Yeah it's a bit mad that basically all car trailers don't run shocks (nobody would ever drive a car with no shocks...), but I think most leaf springs are so stiff that they get away with it because there's very little actual suspension function. The thing with airbags in particular though is that the spring rate is dependent on the airbag pressure, which is dependent on how much load is on it. Basically, when you have no load, it's a softer spring, and when fully loaded it is very stiff. This is great because you get the best of both worlds, rather than having to choose a spring rate that is too hard when empty or too soft when fully loaded, as is usually the case with suspension. Due to this though, the shocks are more critical to have with airbags, as the trailer would bounce around without them when it's unloaded.
ronholm wrote: The best use of axle setups like that was the ones guys use making Ice Fishing shanties. Just pull on the ice.. drop the trailer, turn on the heat, drill a hole and plop down on the couch.. Those boys ends up with some very GRM stuff.....
I've made a lot of these for people when I lived in Northern Canada. Mine would have a common axle for the electric winch tho. Went up and down with the push of a button. A similar set up but just beefier on the trailer I used to haul the shantys.
GTXVette wrote: Eric Odreas has a 4 door 4wd 3500 chevy pick up that has that deal mounted on the frame. They took out the rear wd and it is pulled by the Fwd. Easy peasy oh yeah and his trailer wheels tilt out as it drops down for entry to the car on the trailer. Pretty Kool
Have you got or able to get photos of this setup? I'd love to see it.
FlightService wrote: You guys need to stop messing around
That looks like a remarkably overcomplicated way of doing things.
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