Whats up hive? I just had an unexpected $2k and counting expense from what looks to be a mechanic stripping a bolt and sending it out. Sorry it picture below is large, don't know how to resize.
Long and short, the metal portion of my motor mount on the engine size snapped in 2 dropping my engine and causing a fair amount of damage, and of course at the worst time and place.
Bolt shown below was stripped putting all of the load of the engine onto the far bolt and broke the metal. Theory is, last time that bolt would have been touched was during the last timing belt change. They stripped the bolt and send it out in lieu of owning up and replacing the motor bracket it connects to. I cannot think of any other way that the bolt below would have been stripped. I would assume, dangerous word, that if they found it that way, they would have called me to get fixed. As it is one of the last bolts on, by the time it happened, it was too late in the day to call to say it was 'discovered'. They did call me with a couple other items they found during the timing belt repair, it was not as if there was no communication during the process.
Does the hive have any other theories? Break down on cost, $360 tow (60 miles from nearest repair shop, 20 from nearest town), $380 for rental car to get home while car is in shop for 5 days, $1,300 for minimum repairs to get it 290 miles home from shop, est for another $1k to repair damaged sub frame, they are banging straightish for me to get home with.
Did the stripped bolt cause the mount to break, or did the broken mount cause the bolt to strip.
Looking carefully at the mount and how it broke (where the stress seemed to come from, direction of break etc) might help determine that. How the mount is stressed under load of course would be critical (hard to tell by your drawing)
There should have been no axial load between the 2 bolts on the long side of the L, the short side carries the load between the motor and chassis. Here is a more detailed sketch.
What kind of car? I can't think of one that would require the motor mounts to be touched when doing a timing belt replacement.
Maybe it would be easier if you told us the make and model of the vehicle... just saying.
Purple Frog (Forum Supporter) said:
Maybe it would be easier if you told us the make and model of the vehicle... just saying.
+1
And maybe some pics instead of sketches. The sketches really don't tell much.
On DSMs you have to pull the upper motor mount to change the timing belt. Of course, anyone doing anything but DIY on one of those dinsaurs....
2012 VW TDI Jetta Sportwagen here is a picture of the mount with the some layout. Hopefully this helps paint the picture clearer. Mount needs to be removed to access timing belt.
I don't want to pile on problems but... are you sure that the shop REALLY changed the timing belt? Stripping a bolt seems like the kind of thing you would do when attempting to remove a bolt (but not succeeding) rather than something that would happen when putting the bolt back on.
Or, did they just spin the hell out of the bolt when re-applying and just torque the ever hell out of it with the big air gun?
Those VW bolts are famous for being loctited on from the factory and difficult to remove.
You are probably going to have to get it fixed and move on. It would be extremely difficult to prove the mechanic did it.
What if the part broke, then the force that was designed to be carried by two bolts was now placed on just one bolt, and that bolt gave way?
In reply to Purple Frog (Forum Supporter) :
I know what you are saying, but I don't know how it would break between the 2 bolts. The mount is flat at the location of the break and the bracket it is mounted to is flat. It shouldn't be able to flex that way to break.
9 year old vehicle part breaks.
This would be pretty hard to prove it was the mechanic's fault.
I know that's not what you want to hear, but I also see no value in finger pointing. And the tow bill and rental car cost are really not related to the failure.
This is probably one of those things it's best to get over and move on.
Sorry for your frustration.
former520 said:
2012 VW TDI Jetta Sportwagen here is a picture of the mount with the some layout. Hopefully this helps paint the picture clearer. Mount needs to be removed to access timing belt.
The shear strength alone on one bolt should darn near hold the engine in even if you tried to rip that engine out of the car with a picker. I have a really hard time explaining how you could have broken the second bolt even if the mount itself was completely ripped.
Not that it matters short of a lawsuit, which you wll lose, which will cost more then you could ever even hope to recover your going to have to take this one on the chin. Also get AAA.
I'm sort of in SVreX's camp
But, the reason I no longer operate a shop:
Car owner thinks its a mechanic's error. Explanations don't work. Car owner gets a lawyer. Shop operator calls his insurance agent. Insurance company settles out of court (because explaining technical stuff to judges and juries is almost impossible.) Car owner feels happy. Car owner's lawyer is real happy. Shop owner's insurance rates go up. Shop owner's mechanic is pissed. Shop rates have to go up. Future customers complain about the high rates. Rinse and repeat.
And yes, there are times mechanics make mistakes. Could be true in this case...
My last place of employment had a VW dealer in the same building and I seem to recall a few mounts breaking. Not a lot but more than a handful.
You will be facing a steep up hill battle to get reimbursed.
Good luck.
Not looking to get any kind of compensation. Not even sure if I am right. Trying to figure out if it is a 'just happens' kind of deal or if I need to find a new shop.
I have broken plenty of parts running rally cars over the years. This one was not beaten on and such a strange failure, trying to figure it out to avoid in future, or like many things, one off and don't worry.
I got no horse in this race, but a quick google suggests these bolts may be TTY and should never be re-used.
Was the stripped bolt not installed at all? Was it stuck in the threaded hole and engine weight was still being transferred to it and putting that bolt in shear ?
In other words was any engine weight bearing on that stripped bolt? Or was all the weight on the other bolt? I'm trying to understand what caused the overstress in the bracket causing it to break. I wonder why VW put an oval hole there creating a weak spot I add.
1988RedT2 said:
I got no horse in this race, but a quick google suggests these bolts may be TTY and should never be re-used.
Germans do that E36 M3 to get back at us for ww2
When I was 16 years old I was the clean up kid for a builder in a small subdivision. Our POS '63 Ford dump truck failed the safety lane and needed new king pins so the mechanic refreshed the front end.
The next day I'm driving it and the front brake line goes so we return it and I accused them of purposely damaging the line.
I almost had a grown man punch my skinny face in. I would fix it and move forward. Did I say our truck was a POS?
In reply to jharry3 :
The striped bolt closest to the cross over piece was free of the engine bracket it was supposed to be connected to. Motor was hanging free with the far bolt still connected. Closer bolt to cross over was still with the chassis side of the mount. Mount was new at time of timing belt and only has 10k miles on it.
Justjim75 said:
1988RedT2 said:
I got no horse in this race, but a quick google suggests these bolts may be TTY and should never be re-used.
Germans do that E36 M3 to get back at us for ww2
The number of bolts I had to replace when I did the clutch/suspension/turbo/brakes on my VW Sportwagen was insane. It was more than 30.
In reply to former520 :
Oh wait a minute...
It was a new mount? That may change my opinion a little...
