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Ross413
Ross413 Reader
3/25/16 9:26 a.m.
Furious_E wrote: In reply to Gary: Yea, I'll second Gary's sentiments, lots of great info in this thread! Thanks to all who have contributed. In reply to Ross413: Thanks for the offer! I'm located in Carlisle, so probably a couple hours west of you, give or take. Might have to take you up on that sometime though. I think Monday I may try to make it out to a range and try some guns out, since I'm off work (and gonna be auto xing all day Saturday and Sunday - woohoo!).

See you in Hershey then! I am signed up for Saturday only. Yup, Carlisle is a bit away, range trips are fun though. When I first began shooting I first spent money at the local range getting a membership that allowed free rentals. It allowed me to shoot any of the rental guns I wanted. It was expensive 2-300, but has saved me WAY more than that in the long run. I was able to really shoot a ton of guns to see what I liked and what did not work for me.

Thanks Ross

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
3/25/16 9:50 a.m.

Please keep the firearm locked up and please please please follow the 4-rules.

ok, got that out of the way:

While not a fan of either, "Miata" and "Glock" are the answers. Put me down for Glock 26, Glock 46, Glock 17, Glock 19. Sigs are wonderful, but a bit over your budget.

Revolvers:

Why? ohmygod because they're AWESOME, that's why! I love revolvers. My favorite was a super Blackhawk chambered in .44mag. Nothing like racheting that hammer back to let you know you're about to touch off something NASTY . It ain't easy on the wrists, but if you want to try out a lot of other peoples guns for free, buy a Ruger Super Blackhawk and bring it to the range, people flock to it like moths to a flame. Love love love em.

Revolvers have a few features inherent in their design that make them arguably "more reliable" than their semi auto counterparts. ie: Fewer moving parts, and they don't depend on the previous round going "bang" to cycle the next.

So! You draw your weapon and squeeze the trigger. The hammer falls and the gun goes "click"

  • semi auto: You take your eyes and firearm off target, open the action with your off hand, look inside, diagnose the failure (did a round jam, was it just a bad primer, is the magazine in there all the way?) and decide how to proceed from there...

  • revolver: You pull the trigger again and it goes "bang"

They also have the capacity to pack more of a whallop too. With semi-autos the bullet needs to fit into the handle of the firearm which, subsequently, has to fit in the palm of your hand. A semi-auto chambered in .44mag is a lot like carrying a 2x4. A revolver, on the other hand, doesn't have the same drawback. For that reason, the bullets tend to be bigger and hit harder in a revolver vs semi-auto (see .45acp and .45lc for an idea)

On the down side: revolvers tend to hold fewer rounds, are slower to reload, tend to be a bit fatter, and have much heavier single action triggers than their semi-auto counterparts. For a concealment revolver near your budget I might suggest a Ruger LCR or a Ruger SP101.

Try everything though, regardless of how you think of it now (revolvers, semi-auto, 9mm, .380, .45... all of them). Personally, I prefer .45acp for self defence. (no... not because "they don't make a 46"...) because it's so fat and slow moving, it tends to use all its energy in its intended target. Also, sometimes people think they'll prefer 9mm over .45 because they assume the 9mm will have less recoil where as most of the .45's I've shot tend to be less "snappy" their 9mm counterparts.

Good luck!

pinchvalve
pinchvalve GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/25/16 9:59 a.m.

I was where you were last year when I purchased my first handgun. I wanted to go to the range occasionally and practice, and then have it in the house for home-defense or carry it CC for self-defense occasionally.

I went with a Beretta PX4 Storm SubCompact chambered in .40 cal.

It is a subcompact, so small enough to CC and not too intimidating to shoot. The .40 was chosen over 9mm for knockdown power. I went with Beretta because I had experience with their shotguns and liked the brand. I liked this model specifically because it has a physical safety mechanism and because it is DA/SA with an exposed hammer, and I liked having those options. Remember, I began as a novice shooter and things like speed of first shot and non-snagging design were not as high on my list as not shooting myself in the foot! I can look at it and tell if it is ready to shoot or locked down.

So far the gun has been great. I have not had a jam in a year of range trips. I love having the safety, and the gun comes with three grips so you can get it just right. The magazine has a flip-down front that allows you to get all 4 fingers on it for more stability. Great feature.

The .40 cal makes this size gun a bit harder to get back on target, but with some practice and the right grip/stance, it is manageable. I can keep pretty tight groups in/near the center ring at 25 yards. Even at 50 yards, I can hit my mark, not bad for a 3" barrel. To me, it is still a large, heavy weapon for CC compared to a single stack, 6-shot pocket pistol. I have shot those at the range and think they make more sense for someone who wants to carry daily.

If I had to do it over again, I would get this same gun in a larger frame in 9mm for home protection and range use, and a 6-shot 9mm pocket-pistol for daily CC.

I have shot the Smith & Wesson MP Shield at the range (thanks guy next to me!) and it was really nice. I have shot a lot of other guns at rental ranges, and I can't really say that any were complete dogs. Find the features and that fit that suits you. For example, the Beretta Nano did not fit my hand at all, but the Sig Sauer P238 shot like a dream.

Gary
Gary Dork
3/25/16 10:06 a.m.

During my first trip to the range my biggest challenge was loading the 9mm rounds into the magazine of the Glock 17 that I was renting. I struggled. My thumb hurt and for me anyway it was a clumsy procedure. (Although loading .45 rounds into the model 1911 on my second trip was a bit easier. Lighter spring I suspect). Anyway, I picked up an Uplula and it has made life at the range much easier. My son still prefers fingering it though.

Uplula:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ts1OTNlIGg

(Start the video at about 4:00)

spitfirebill
spitfirebill PowerDork
3/25/16 10:09 a.m.
Rusted_Busted_Spit wrote: I have a Browning Hi Power, first time I picked one up it just felt "right" so that would be my pick. With that being said I will second the CZ 75 comment. I rented one a few months ago and it was laser accurate and well built though not that well known. But like others have said, get your hands on as many different ones as you can.

^^^^ If I could only own one handgun, it would probably one of these. I am a Browning and CZ fanboi.

Vracer111
Vracer111 Reader
3/25/16 11:28 a.m.

I don't shoot most Glock's too well compared to my favorite pistol to shoot (HK USP Expert) but there is one Glock that favorably compares to its accuracy and precision for me, and that is the G42...simply a phenominally shooting pistol for its size. It's as small of a pistol as I would ever go with but it shoots like a full size pistol. And unlike most Glock's it fit pretty well in the hand being a very slim pistol. Like it much better than the G19 I previously had.

Yes it's a 380auto pistol, but there is also the G43 9mm version. 380auto is of no concern when you have good ammo that performs like 9mm...Lehigh Defense solid copper rounds that are BRUTAL in their performance...pentration of ball (without over penetration) combined with wound channel of hollow point for the majority of the bullet's travel, not just the first 1/4 or so.

Lehigh Extreme penetrator test...

Bobzilla
Bobzilla UltimaDork
3/25/16 11:53 a.m.

One pistol and one pistol only, I would keep my Rossi but only because of sentimental value. But logically, it would be a lightweight commander 1911 because I shoot them so well and it's a natural feel.

I never recommend a .40 for a first time shooter. IT's just too snappy on the recoil and harder control and ammo is expensive.

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
3/25/16 12:25 p.m.
Bobzilla wrote: One pistol and one pistol only, I would keep my Rossi but only because of sentimental value. But logically, it would be a lightweight commander 1911 because I shoot them so well and it's a natural feel.

Smith and Wesson Model-28 I named mine "Junior Brown"

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess MegaDork
3/25/16 12:31 p.m.

Colt 1911 Government Model Series 70

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess MegaDork
3/25/16 12:39 p.m.

If it was just one rifle, or even just one gun period, I think a Chinese AK would about do it.

NickD
NickD HalfDork
3/25/16 1:00 p.m.

Lahti L-39 20mm anti-tank rifle. Never worry about anything anymore. Except finding ammo.

I have nothing of real import to add here, just taking notes. Really need to get my pistol license though, just in case (God forbid) something happens to my father I don't loose all of his handguns

Bobzilla
Bobzilla UltimaDork
3/25/16 1:11 p.m.
Dr. Hess wrote: If it was just one rifle, or even just one gun period, I think a Chinese AK would about do it.

If I was overseas, sure. But in the US, it's going to be MUCH easier to find ammo and mags along with parts for an AR-type rifle. As much as I liked the AK we had, I am much happier with my AR. I can't believe I just typed that.

Honestly, the way I maintain stuff it's going to be a tossup anyway.

WOW Really Paul?
WOW Really Paul? MegaDork
3/25/16 2:41 p.m.
Storz wrote:
WOW Really Paul? wrote:
Furious_E wrote: So what's the argument for a revolver over a semi auto?
They can be more accurate than a semi auto, that's about it really. Personally, I'd say get your hands on a M&P 9mm and Glock 17, for what you are wanting to do, either option will be good and both should be found within or close to your budget. Dark horse cantidate would be a cz75 in my opinion.
Not sure on that one....if that were the case all the bullseye shooters would stop using their 1911s and High Standards and start shooting revolvers... I love my Glocks :)

Speed of reload is a typical reason for what you describe. Both can be accurate, it's just revolvers have a better chance with longer barrels.

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 PowerDork
3/25/16 2:46 p.m.
Hungary Bill wrote: Try everything though, regardless of how you think of it now (revolvers, semi-auto, 9mm, .380, .45... all of them). Personally, I prefer .45acp for self defence. (no... not because "they don't make a 46"...) because it's so fat and slow moving, it tends to use all its energy in its intended target. Also, sometimes people think they'll prefer 9mm over .45 because they assume the 9mm will have less recoil where as most of the .45's I've shot tend to be less "snappy" their 9mm counterparts.

Lots of good info in this thread, but I was definitely agreeing with this.

Will
Will SuperDork
3/25/16 3:59 p.m.
bigdaddylee82 wrote: In reply to Furious_E: J&G has Chinese ones for $330, and Classic Firearms has Yugos for $430.

When you can build an AR for $500, those are crack pipe prices for an SKS.

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
3/25/16 4:19 p.m.

Dang you guys.

I will not spend my Alfa budget on a new gun...

I will not spend my Alfa budget on a new gun...

I will not spend my Alfa budget on a new gun...

I will not spend my Alfa budget on a new gun...

I will not spend my Alfa budget on a new gun...

I will not spend my Alfa budget on a new gun...

I will not spend my Alfa budget on a new gun...

I will not spend my Alfa budget on a new gun...

I will not spend my Alfa budget on a new gun...

I will not spend my Alfa budget on a new gun...

I will not spend my Alfa budget on a new gun...

I will not spend my Alfa budget on a new gun...

calteg
calteg Dork
3/25/16 4:45 p.m.
Gary wrote: During my first trip to the range my biggest challenge was loading the 9mm rounds into the magazine of the Glock 17 that I was renting. I struggled. My thumb hurt and for me anyway it was a clumsy procedure. (Although loading .45 rounds into the model 1911 on my second trip was a bit easier. Lighter spring I suspect). Anyway, I picked up an Uplula and it has made life at the range much easier. My son still prefers fingering it though. Uplula: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ts1OTNlIGg (Start the video at about 4:00)

The mag springs will break in as you cycle them (load & unload them). But yes, the first few times they can be difficult, especially once you get to the final 2 rounds. Glock makes a little plastic tool that makes loading them much easier.

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo UltimaDork
3/25/16 4:52 p.m.
Dr. Hess wrote: If it was just one rifle, or even just one gun period, I think a Chinese AK would about do it.

For what an AK goes for lately I'd rather get an AR for the same money. Objectively a better gun in nearly all respects, ammo is the same price, no 922r BS to worry about, etc.

WOW Really Paul?
WOW Really Paul? MegaDork
3/25/16 5:21 p.m.

Just remember, whatever you end up with, train train train. Know it well, practice FTF's with snap caps, practice mag changes/speed loads, as well as the all too important aspect of accuracy. Don't be afraid to ask questions either.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla UltimaDork
3/25/16 5:31 p.m.
WOW Really Paul? wrote: Just remember, whatever you end up with, train train train. Know it well, practice FTF's with snap caps, practice mag changes/speed loads, as well as the all too important aspect of accuracy. Don't be afraid to ask questions either.

This. Think Seat time Seat time Seat time, but substitute seat with range. IF you do decide to carry, make sure that you are intimately familiar with your sidearm. Where operation requires no concious thought and is 90% muscle memory. Because if you ever are put into a position to need it, you will not be able to think about it because 400 other things are happening in your mind at once. OR so I"m told.

revrico
revrico GRM+ Memberand Reader
3/25/16 6:17 p.m.

Follow the 4 rules, and yes, this is just the entry point to a new addiction. That said, for CC, I carry an LCP. Not a big fan of 380, but it's a great pocket gun, light, and does it's job. I also usually like my Ruger P97DC, it almost never leaves my vehicle, but man, that 45 is a blast.

I've owned a large variety, and much like I recommend a E36 M3ty car for a first timer, if you want to get into shooting as a hobby, I recommend a crappier gun. Not to the point it's unsafe, but something not quite up to snuff. Example and reasoning: At one point, I had purchased a Llama 45, double stacked 10 round magazine, in a weird size between pocket pistol and 1911. I bought it because ti was cheap, and at the store, it worked perfectly. Bought the same ammo we test fired it with, and NEVER ONCE was able to get through a whole magazine without FTF problems. Why do I recommend that? Because learning how to clear jams and stovepipes and feed problems, quickly and safely, can make a world of difference in a situation. Just make sure the company the made the gun and offers a lifetime warranty is still in existence, unlike Llama that had shut down 2 years before. Would I recommend carrying a junker like that? NO berkeleyING WAY. But practicing with a junker prone to problems you might face in the real world can save your life in the real world, without wear and tear on a nice piece. Like thrashing the beater in the winter instead of your DD or garage queen.

Research will be your friend. See if there are any local sportsmans clubs or groups in your area. The one I used to belong to has a 3 year waiting list, BUT lots of open public days, from trap and sporting clays, to site in days, to shooter education. And paying once a year for unlimited range use beats the hell out of paying by the hour somewhere.

Go to rental places, go to shoots, go out in the woods with your friends, try to find what fits your hand and works for you. Once you find a frame that fits, then worry about the ammunition. Personally, I hate 9mm, but it's relatively cheap and widely available. For me, it's 45 or 357. But fit and feel is more important than what comes out of the end. With practive and time, it won't matter if it's a .22 or a .50 coming out the barrel because you'll be accurate and that's what counts.

And with 357, be careful, those can get very heavy. I've got a Ruger 7 round 8 inch 357 revolver, and a Ruger Police Special snub nose. The snub weighs almost twice as much as the long barrel, with less accuracy, but the shoulder harness makes carrying fairly simple, and the weight can help if you run out of ammo(nice heavy hand shaped blunt object that throws well). The 8 inch is a fantastic target gun, but you really can't go wrong when you're firing a bullet designed specifically to STOP ENGINES.

Also, I just recently found out my local community college offers continuing education classes in weapons training. From basics, to low light, home defense, street defense, etc. Those may be worth checking out in your area to get some familiarity and ingrain good habits early instead of trying to break bad ones later. Think of it like racing school.

Furious_E
Furious_E GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
3/25/16 8:17 p.m.
Ross413 wrote:
Furious_E wrote: In reply to Gary: Yea, I'll second Gary's sentiments, lots of great info in this thread! Thanks to all who have contributed. In reply to Ross413: Thanks for the offer! I'm located in Carlisle, so probably a couple hours west of you, give or take. Might have to take you up on that sometime though. I think Monday I may try to make it out to a range and try some guns out, since I'm off work (and gonna be auto xing all day Saturday and Sunday - woohoo!).
See you in Hershey then! I am signed up for Saturday only. Yup, Carlisle is a bit away, range trips are fun though. When I first began shooting I first spent money at the local range getting a membership that allowed free rentals. It allowed me to shoot any of the rental guns I wanted. It was expensive 2-300, but has saved me WAY more than that in the long run. I was able to really shoot a ton of guns to see what I liked and what did not work for me. Thanks Ross

Awesome, I'll be driving a black 4th gen Camaro.

bigdaddylee82
bigdaddylee82 SuperDork
3/25/16 8:23 p.m.
Will wrote:
bigdaddylee82 wrote: In reply to Furious_E: J&G has Chinese ones for $330, and Classic Firearms has Yugos for $430.
When you can build an AR for $500, those are crack pipe prices for an SKS.

I don't disagree, the SKS has never floated my boat. It would have to be pretty darn cheap before I'd consider buying one, even for novelty's sake.

This may sound blasphemous, but I don't get the Mosin's appeal either.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess MegaDork
3/25/16 8:41 p.m.

Guy I know used to be a dealer. In the 80's, he was buying Chinese SKS' by the pallet at something like $20 ea. The sold for $80. OK, with the inflation we haven't had, that's still like $250, and it's a darn fine rifle for $250.

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo UltimaDork
3/25/16 8:44 p.m.

The Mosin's appeal was it was a big bad full power rifle that was cheap to buy and cheap to shoot (still is to a lesser degree). If you picked out a good one they can even be made shockingly accurate with minimal work. My best group was 1 1/4"@100yds with stock sights, cleaned up stock trigger, and shimmed action, with unsorted surplus Romanian light ball.

Dr. Hess wrote: Guy I know used to be a dealer. In the 80's, he was buying Chinese SKS' by the pallet at something like $20 ea. The sold for $80. OK, with the inflation we haven't had, that's still like $250, and it's a darn fine rifle for $250.

I remember Yugos in the cosmoline for ~$150 about 10 years ago.

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