Am I a bad person?

I am just shocked at how it's an area where people who don't know us feel the need to make comments. Normally this only comes up around Mother's day where the hens at her office go out of their way to say things like "Happy Mother's Day, except to you of course" with no idea how much that upsets my wife.

She never felt the need to make her health everyones business but people we hardly know feel the are entitled to answers to some very private questions. It happened again tonight. We went out to do some running around and she told an aquaintance that my sister was pregnant. They said atleast someone is giving my parent's grandkids since we can't be bothered.

Sorry for the rant but I can't really talk to anyone here about it, they are to busy spawning .

Wally wrote: She never felt the need to make her health everyones business but people we hardly know feel the are entitled to answers to some very private questions. It happened again tonight. We went out to do some running around and she told an aquaintance that my sister was pregnant. They said atleast someone is giving my parent's grandkids since we can't be bothered.

Somebody needs a slap, and it ain't you or your wife.

Wally wrote: Sorry for the rant but I can't really talk to anyone here about it, they are to busy spawning .

Heh. Sounds like the rabbits in our yard

Just tell them that you forgot.

Wally wrote: Normally this only comes up around Mother's day where the hens at her office go out of their way to say things like "Happy Mother's Day, except to you of course" with no idea how much that upsets my wife .... Sorry for the rant but I can't really talk to anyone here about it, they are to busy spawning .

In my workplace THAT would be harrassment, and could be followed by termination of the offending parties, if it didn't change. We've gone thru a bunch of orientation that identifies offensive behavior, and that qualifies. 'Course, it helps that the company I work for has offices on 3 continents and in several societies. The Brits are really down on obvious discrimination, and the home office of PPL has decided to be aggressive with discrimination and harrassment.

It's kind of liberating to know that no matter how offensive someone or something is, there is a recourse for some sort of action to be taken. Mostly, it's just good sense not to offend those with whom one works. My wife finally responded to the offending hens, that there were reasons that we weren't parents, and they didn't include telling the world that we were infertile. Silence quickly fell, and the helpful (painful) comments stopped. And then the topic shifted elsewhere.

That said, my wife and I found ourselves in much the same position regarding kids...both halves of the equation were found wanting. After several years of waiting, we adopted a boy a week old. We never made any bones about him being adopted, and there's never been any question whose child he is. We're Mom and Dad, and we are his parents. He's had lots of problems through the years, and there's been lots of heartache with not understanding WHY he does some of the stuff he does.

Last night I had a phone conversation with my now 21 year old son. Once he reached majority he had pestered the adoption agency for more info regarding his birth-parents, and finally got some results. He found out there's epilepsy and cancer in the immediate parent/grandparent group, as well as drug and alcohol abuse. Not a pretty picture, but the birth mother knew she couldn't care for a newborn when she already had an 18 month-old and a 4 year-old and no husband to help. So we got the call to come pick up our son.

If you're comfortable not having children, more power to you. Remember that your wife is also part of the question, so keep that in consideration. It appears she may not be as comfortable as you, so you both may want to take some time away from anyone else, and talk about it at length. And she may need to be pretty agressive with the hens at work. It's no business of theirs if you have children or not. They sure as the devil won't help with the bills should you adopt. She may want to bring that into the conversation with the hens.

don't underestimate the hens at your wife's office. they know exactly how much it hurts her, and that's why they say it. there's nothing meaner than a woman, except more than one woman.

I'll be 26 in October and I really have no desire to have kids myself. That has caused more than a few women to run to the hills to say the least. Now I just need to find a woman who doesn't believe in having little ones running around.

AngryCorvair wrote: don't underestimate the hens at your wife's office. they know exactly how much it hurts her, and that's why they say it. there's nothing meaner than a woman, except more than one woman.

Agreed... there is a certain type of woman who become poisonous in numbers. At my last newspaper job, I met with the union to initiate a grievance against the toxic gossip in the office – and my boss who refused to address it. It's horrible and insidiously harmful.

I believe (hope this isn't a stretch) that those hens, and anyone else who makes such unacceptable comments about someone else's lifestyle... are very much like scary religious people, who although they claim to be happy with their choices... still feel threatened enough by the differing choices of others that they react either by disapproval, or bullying to make others think the way they do. Anyone who is content with their own life doesn't need to make someone else miserable just because they have made a different choice.

Wanting kids and having them=good

Not wanting kids and not having them=good

Not wanting kids and having them=EVIL

4eyes wrote: Wanting kids and having them=good Not wanting kids and not having them=good Not wanting kids and having them=EVIL

There it is right there. The older I get the more shiny happy people there seem to be in the world. Having children "because everyone else is" is just another example of how people have a hard time thinking for themselves. There is nothing wrong with your decision and anyone who thinks othetwise needs to be dropped in a lake.

You have to do whats right for you. My wife and I aren't having children and people used to comment or ask questions but not so much anymore. I have come to the conclusion that the people who make hurtful remarks are just jealous because no one told them its ok to not have children. I have heard a few divorced single moms say to my wife "I wish I would have waited and thought about it more."

You're not a bad person for deciding whats right for you. You're also not a bad person if you tell people "Between Jon & Kate, Octomom, and the Duggars, we felt the world had enough people".

But seriously, where are all these kids going to work in 20 years?

I'm 39 and have several friends around our age who don't have kids. In a couple situations it's medical/genetic, but the others are pure choice.

I personally don't see anything wrong with it. Then again, I never intended to have kids(let alone end up with 4!). There are also plenty of days when I can't wait for them to move out of the house, and I just have to keep reminding myself "I'm supposed to cherish these moments..."

I am slightly bothered by people who seem to just keep spitting out kids, and what it's doing to the world population(I'm glad 3 of mine are step-kids). But I also temper that against free will.

In the end, I'm thankful for mine and think I'm a more well-rounded person for the experience, but I think I could have been just as happy if life had not given me the chance to have them. So I say keep true to yourself and remember - Pets, kids, pools and boats are all much more enjoyable when they belong to someone else!

Man there is a lot of population guilt in this thread.

another way to answer and probably shut up the shiny happy hens would be to say something like... "we just like to berkley but really don't want to have to put up with the typical results of berkleying... " usually results in somewhat stunned silence , and those with any shred of common decency generally slink away and leave you alone for a while and the others will stick their nose up and leave you alone pretty much for ever.... (what have you really lost ?)

Lesley wrote: I believe (hope this isn't a stretch) that those hens, and anyone else who makes such unacceptable comments about someone else's lifestyle... are very much like scary religious people, who although they claim to be happy with their choices... still feel threatened enough by the differing choices of others that they react either by disapproval, or bullying to make others think the way they do. Anyone who is content with their own life doesn't need to make someone else miserable just because they have made a different choice.

It's also possible that they subtly resent people without kids. Maybe they are mostly happy with having kids, but get jealous seeing DINKs living a life of generally more leisure. They feel slightly jealous and either want you to be down on their level, or to feel bad about having what they're jealous of (free time, sleep, and money).

MrJoshua wrote: Man there is a lot of population guilt in this thread.

QFT.

oldsaw wrote:

MrJoshua wrote: Man there is a lot of population guilt in this thread.

QFT.

All I know is the wilderness isn't what it once was.

Wally wrote: I am just shocked at how it's an area where people who don't know us feel the need to make comments. Normally this only comes up around Mother's day where the hens at her office go out of their way to say things like "Happy Mother's Day, except to you of course" with no idea how much that upsets my wife.

The greatest lesson I ever learned about life is to ignore whatever idiotic piece of BMW E36 comes out of other people's mouths. It's none of their business. I'll bet any serious study of their behavior would lead to a twisted web of jealousy.

Berkeley other people. Whether you decide to have kids or not, most people still suck. I still recall a time when I was carrying my (then a toddler) daughter through a mall. She was screaming because she wanted to walk, and I wouldn't let her because I was in a hurry. I finally relented, and put her on the pavement..and the first thing some moron (after witnessing my girl stagger down the path with obsolete tears on her face) who was stupid enough to comment upon the life of a stranger was, "How dare you force that child to walk!"

If I were a man without morals, I would have given that "busybody" the slow, painful death she deserves. IMO, people that lack the ability to mind their own business are responsible for much of what's "wrong" with the world. From sticking their noses into your situation, to slamming on the brakes to look at an ambulance on the side of the road, to calling the Homeowners' Association because you skipped mowing the lawn for a week, people like that are usually shallow and insecure people who attempt to overcome their own failures in life by attempting to ridicule others who have the ability to succeed in life where they have failed.

Again, IMO..you and your lady should do what you want. And, y'all should be very aggressive when confronting people (especially people you don't know, or don't like) say the stupid things they do. It's your life, and it's not really anyone else's business.

Just my .02..YMMV.

friedgreencorrado wrote: I still recall a time when I was carrying my (then a toddler) daughter through a mall. She was screaming because she wanted to walk, and I wouldn't let her because I was in a hurry. I finally relented, and put her on the pavement..and the first thing some moron (after witnessing my girl stagger down the path with obsolete tears on her face) who was stupid enough to comment upon the life of a stranger was, "How *dare* you force that child to walk!"

in cases such as these is when I usually loose my cool and tend to act just like the shiny happy person that they are... I usually answer with some extreme vulgarity that momentarily shuts them up and allows me to move on before a real confrontation happens...

GregTivo wrote:

oldsaw wrote:

MrJoshua wrote: Man there is a lot of population guilt in this thread.

QFT.

All I know is the wilderness isn't what it once was.

I apologize for bringing it up. This has potential to become an environmental debate and that's not what this thread is about. Sorry Wally, and again-no way you should feel like a bad person because of some fools inability to realize not everyone has to follow the same path.

Salanis, I agree with you and basically said that to one of the hens at work the other day.

"I like having money and free time, if I want to play with kids I'll go pick up my three nephews."

And they wonder why I come to work, sit in my "office" (a big cubicle with high walls and a door) and don't talk them.

The wife and I made the decision to not have children before we were formally engaged. We informed both sets of parents about the decision. My parents even though I was the first-born of two were fine with it. They said it was our decision to make. The wifes parents already had a handfull of grandchildren who were taking up more of their time than they planned on so they were somewhat relieved.

We did get the "When" question a little at first until we started answering the way my mother suggested. Her way was to say "NEVER" in a loud angry tone and she guarenteed that we would never have to tell the same person twice.

Since we made that decision in 1968 does that make us the original "DINK"s?

fast_eddie_72 wrote: You might be interested in this: http://www.newsweek.com/2008/06/28/having-kids-makes-you-happy.html

I am 42, single and have no kids. I had that issue, saw this article, and left it on my dining room table for my parents to see while they were house sitting for me. Oddly enough, they have not mentioned me having kids since.

Some people in this thread share my thoughts. The planet is polluted, over populated, run by corrupt governments/corporations and could be facing a serious crisis with global warming (if you believe in that stuff-not trying to start and argument here). I can't see bringing more people into it. I was involved with a woman who had two small girls and I loved them to death. I would have been very happy to be in their lives but it didn't work out. That's the only way that I'll have children in my life, if I ever get involved with somebody who already has them.

In reply to jimbob_racing:

With your willingness to date women who already have children, you are a prime catch for many a thirty to forty something woman!

18yrs this september and neither of us have a regret. When people ask how many kids we have we reply 0 and then explain how we can do what we want without consulting our kids. That usually get em

Wally wrote: In the last year there has been a baby boom among us and we are looked down upon at times and told how we are depriving our familys of joy.

Children are a responsibility, not a tickmark on the checklist of life or a status symbol.

I respect that some people genuinely want to raise children. However, I also see a lot of people who don't, but have kids anyway.

I'm perfectly happy with not having kids. I generally don't like people, why would I want to make more?