tuna55 said:
Realistically I don't need tacti-cool stuff. This is emergency self defense and emergency hunting. A scope plus this rifle is likely fine. I want to leave money for a good scope and some magazines and a bunch of ammo, so cost definitely matters.
Get the cheapest AR-10 from Palmetto you can get that has at least an 18" barrel.
I'd get this one.
You'll be able to change a LOT of other things once you own the rifle, and odds are you won't know what you want to change until you shoot it a bit.
If I was to get a 308 auto rifle, I'd probably go FAL myself
Rodan said:
I would opt for a rifle length gas system, especially on a gun without an adjustable gas block. You're probably going to end up changing the stock to shoot with an optic anyway, so furniture isn't a big deal, and they all come with about the same stuff.
For ~$100 more than the basic PSA rifles, the Ruger has a two-stage trigger that's not bad, and an adjustable gas block from the factory. It's also the cheapest option by far for a small frame .308, and will probably have better resale than the PSA if you ever decided to sell it.
Ruger SFAR is 6.8lbs, most of the big frame guns are 8+, though PSA doesn't list a weight, the Q&A section gives 10lbs, which seems high. My SIG 716i is 8.5lbs.
My PSA with the heavy barrel and a vortex scope is a hair under 10lbs empty.
Rodan
UltraDork
10/19/23 2:03 p.m.
In reply to barefootcyborg5000 :
So, around 8lbs for the rifle, depending on the optic. Good to have a hard number. I'm surprised PSA doesn't list weight, and by the 10lbs listed in the Q&A.
tuna55
MegaDork
10/19/23 2:26 p.m.
In reply to tuna55 :
Because .308 (7.62 NATO 2.8 inches long) doesn't fit in an AR-15 (.223/5.56 2.26 inches long)
The Ruger SFAR is the halfway-between-the-two solution.
Rodan
UltraDork
10/19/23 2:46 p.m.
What matthewmcl said... basically an AR10 is an AR15, just 'supersized' enough so the magazine will fit a .308. The Ruger SFAR is built on a normal AR15 sized frame, with just the magazine well stretched out to fit .308. The result is it's a bit lighter, and more parts interchange (charging handles, eg).
tuna55
MegaDork
10/19/23 3:06 p.m.
doh, filter fail. I thought I had filtered by caliber and an AR15 came up with 308. I was wrong. I'd delete my comment but you both have replied, so nvm
tuna55
MegaDork
10/19/23 3:18 p.m.
I would recommend freedfloat m-lok over the "traditional" handguard. Stainless barrel over CrMo. 15" handguard is about right. 2 stage vs single stage is preference. Do you have a bolt gun? Pistol preference? Matching to what you already use has advantages for familiarity on something for "just in case." If in doubt, 2 stage has fewer surprises if you were not sure what you picked up. For reference, a typical modern pistol has a 2 stage.
I wouldn't be put off by PSA's blem parts. My lower and kit were blems but were flawless when I got them.
jmabarone said:
I wouldn't be put off by PSA's blem parts. My lower and kit were blems but were flawless when I got them.
+1 Blem pretty much means non-uniform color out of anodize. Usually some small spot you really have to look for.
My Long-range semi retro Armalite build. 500 yards is not an issue at all.
This has a Burris 3.5-15 FFP scope.
Basic no frills simple 308 STHF rifle. That is great fun to shoot. I posted this up a while ago. About half the cost for this was the scope. I may someday update the trigger but I can shoot the mill spec trigger just fine.
If I remember the rifle upper and lower was about $1300. I think the scope was about 1K. Since I live in MA these are not on the shelf. I had to build it. Finding the lower was surprisingly not hard. The upper on the other hand was a bit of a PITA as I was specifically looking for a stainless steel barrel. Standard barrels are relatively common.
In reply to barefootcyborg5000 :
Yup.. After 20 rounds my shoulder is like. "You can stop that now" LOL
My K1911 is even worse as the 7.5 swiss is about 20-30 percent more powerful than the 308. It is right between the 308 and the 30-06 in terms of recoil.
My shoulder talks to me the day after I shoot a couple of mags in my AR10.
Regarding a AR15 that has been reworked to shoot 308. I would not do that as the forces are much greater with 308 and unless an upper and lower have been designed for that from the ground for 308 I can see an adapted AR15 lower not lasting very long.
And with it being close to my face when it is fired I am going to be a bit conservative in my choices when selecting 308 things.
In reply to dean1484 :
Ruger made a specific lower that takes AR15 stocks, but is otherwise very much AR10. Nothing reworked; all ground up specific to the task.
I get worried when I see an AR15 lower that some one mods to work with ar10 stuff, I have not seen the Ruger one. How it accepts accessories is not my issue it is the core design of the lower around the bolt area
In reply to dean1484 :
You can think of it more AR10 slimmed in the back and shortened a little than AR15 modded up. The bolt carrier is AR10 diameter in the front, where it engages the bolt, and AR15 diameter in the back where it telescopes into the stock.
Not necessarily anyone's cup of tea, but still interesting from a design standpoint.
AR15 stuff is quite uniform due to a stringent mil spec around the M16 and M4.
The AR10 stuff is not as universal. If you want to make your own you need to stick to one maker or check comparability.
If you want more punch than an AR and 7.62 bullets don't neglect US made AK variants. Honestly for a SHTF scenario I would consider an AR15 and an AK variant along with a 12 ga and 9mm pistols. A 9mm carbine might also come in handy and lots of 22LR and a 22LR pistol and rifle of your choice.
In a real SHTF situation very few people are going to need or use 500 yd capable gear.
To build on some previous posts, I'd get an AR-15 before I got an AR-10 if I had to pick ONE rifle. The AR-15 is really a single platform multi-tool. Getting spare parts is economical, base ammunition is readily available and reasonably priced, recoil is low, and so on and so on.
Yeah, I have both AR-15s and AR-10s, plus a few other rifles, but that's beside the point.
Having an AR-15 lower give more options regarding uppers in different calibers than any other platform. I mentioned the 6.8 SPC, but you've got .300 Blackout, .224 Valkyrie, 6.5 Grendel, etc. Plus, the Lego interchangeability of hundreds of different parts, Mil-Spec or not, gives you means you can build a rifle exactly the way you want.
The base model 5.56/.223 cartridge is perfectly fine for self defense and hunting. Stepping up to larger calibers (like 6.8 SPC) means you'll be able to take bigger game at longer range. The .300 Blackout is good out to 200 yards or so. Really, how many people are shooting past 200 yards reliably without lots of practice? Really, really?
The alternate is a platform in 7.62x39. Again, how often are you shooting more than 200 yards? Accuracy is always brought up as a failure for AK platforms, but they're not THAT much worse than a basic mil-spec AR platform, and at 100 yards being minute of bad guy or deer versus minute of angle is really all you need. The failure here is that you can often get a decent AR-15 for less than you can get a quality AK platform rifle these days, and the times of super cheap ammunition for the AK platforms is past.
I'm not saying don't get an AR-10. To put it in GRM terms, it's the difference between a Miata and a Corvette in terms of long terms ownership costs to run the platform, and it will be heavier to lug around. If you can afford running an AR-10 and are aware of the tradeoffs, by all means do it.
In reply to Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) :
I'll add a caveat to your corvette/Miata comparison (which is very good, btw)
that low compression sbc is easier to fuel than the "use 93 octane only" Miata when all the stations are running dry.
I know the last few years were very odd, but 5.56 was non existent for a long time, same with .22 and 9mm, despite "everyone has that, it'll be easy to source. It's literally everywhere" while it was still relatively easy to get 308/7.62. This is anecdotal, obviously, but still worth mentioning.
In reply to barefootcyborg5000 :
Buy it cheap; lay it deep. Then you don't have to worry if anyone has some on the shelf. 
In reply to Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) :
It is worth noting, in regards to AK accuracy, that the reputation was built largely out of Vietnam, where corrosive ammo, jungle conditions, and a lack of cleaning kits destroyed rifles. When the spam cans of ammo came to stores, people looked for cheap rifles to go with cheap ammo. Seriously low grade crap was suddenly very popular. We bought country's junk until they ran out of junk to sell us. A modern AK is good. Modern AK ammo is good. The only downside is mounting optics.
tuna55
MegaDork
10/20/23 8:19 a.m.
I'm equally open to a two gun solution, which would likely be an AR-15 and a bolt action hunting rifle. As I see it:
Two gun pro: better hunting accuracy, smaller, easier to shoot, more common defense rifle
One gun pro: one type of ammo to stock, one gun to learn (that will likely never be used) to shoot and maintain, one gun to store and grab
Two gun con: likely higher cost, double the ammo storage, training on two weapons
One gun con: less than ideal hunting, bigger than necessary for defense.
If that's accurate I'll pull the trigger on that PSA ar10 today
You can hunt with a ar15. What I think you should consider is at AR15 lower as a platform. Put a decent trigger in it and kit it out with the stock of choice. I personally like the Sones of Liberty ambi complete lowers. There are many choices just get a name brand. Once you have this you can then build/purchas two uppers.
Upper number 1 would be a short barrel my go to is a Sones of Liberty 13.75" barrel with a 2.5" muzzle devise. I use a warden set up with a removable blast deflector (because suppressors are illegal in my state). What ever you do make sure that the muzzle devise is installed such that the barrel plus muzzle devise is longer than 16". If you want shorter you have to SBR the firearm. (Registering it with the ATF at a cost). This is a proper home defense set up. It really does not even need an optic. Maybe put a light on it.
Upper number 2 would be a long barrel of medium weight 20" or more that you spend some $$$ on for accuracy. Add decent optic that you spend some $$$ on. This is your hunting/longer range set up. I would make sure that this barrel is designed for both 223 and 556. This would be your longer range hunting rifle.
I have both set ups both built with a specific purpose. Think of it as a battery powered tool eco system with the lower being the battery and the upper being the actual tool.
