Career advice part eleventy

I've lost count of how many times I've turned to the experts here (on a car forum) for career advice and here I am yet again to ask for some guidance. 

I'll try to keep it brief as I can ramble on for ever so here we go.

I lucked into a position at my current employer about three and a half years ago. In that time I've been promoted several times to my current title (of which I am objectively unqualified for) of Maintenance team lead, which I've been in for about two months now. I had zero experience in industrial maintenance having spent the majority of my working life in construction. But I picked it up very quickly and it really feels like this is what I was meant to do. It feels like a natural fit. Also during that time we have suffered under the constant changing of department managers. Five of them to date. The most recent change was due to our manager, we'll call him T, being promoted to Production Manager. They moved a Production Supervisor over to now be the Maintenance Supervisor.  The only constant here is change. Also, we are a subsidiary of a multi-national, multi-billion dollar corporation. I only mention that because this is my first ever job in a corporate environment, so I'm not accustomed to the constant politicking and nonsense that seems to be prevalent in this environment.  

So this morning T comes to me and asks if I would like to transfer to Production. I asked in what capacity to which he replied Production Supervisor. He explained that he is going to be making some changes and wants me to step into that role. This took me completely off guard. I hadn't even contemplated the idea of doing anything other than maintenance. 

This is a curve ball that I wasn't expecting at all. It's not like I had a path or plan for the future, I have just been taking advantage of the opportunities as they have been presented. I've learned a ton since I've been in maintenance and I know jack squat about production. I spoke briefly with HR about the situation. She is up to date on the plan however not even the Plant Manager is aware. I was instructed not to discuss this with anyone. More of that politicking going on as I know that the current plant manager did not want T to take the Production Manager position but he had support from higher up in corporate. 

I still haven't wrapped my head around the possibility. It would be a salary position vs. hourly. It would be a slight cut in pay but with the bonus it would be about a wash.  It would have more responsibility and stress for sure. I can deal with the issues of the machines, I'm not sure I can deal with the issues of the workers. Machines don't go to HR when you cuss them out when they are not doing what they are supposed to do 

Anyway, it's a lot to think about. I'll be 44 in march and I've completely started over about five times now working my way up from the bottom. I'm not sure I have another one left in me. Should I stay with the more secure (if there is any such thing) position or step out onto a limb with no safety net?

When I transferred down to NC I took a supervisory role.  TBH, I hated it.  Aligned with your concerns I hated dealing with people's issues.  Ive managed people in the past but it is indeed a bit more of a touchy feely world out there now and people management has a lot of pitfalls.

I was thankfully offered the chance to go back into an operational management position (I manage the work not the people) and I jumped at it.

To take it on for possibly less money, I'd take a hard pass.  Be honest with them, the position will be harder on you and more stressful and you dont see that it would be worth it for a lateral move in pay.

Do you want more headaches, stress, and responsibility, while being paid less? A bonus is just corporate speak for "money we MIGHT pay you."

In reply to Racebrick :

I will say that the few people left that have been there from the beginning say they have never not paid a bonus,  even back in 07. We (hourly employees) lost our bonus last year but they have us all a raise which over the year was more than the bonus.  I brought home 9K on my last bonus check. 

Find out if this is a one way or two way door.  If it's a one way door,  no going back.  maybe you don't want it. 
 

If it's a two way door and you can go back if it's not to your like then it's  a good opportunity. Give it a shot.  But this depends on using it as a stepping stone to go up.  

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :

Never is a truly 2 way door. It will always follow you (at least with that employer) and be seen as a mark against you.

Managing people SUX! Especially in today's world and for the same money I think you're crazy to consider it.  Curse at all the machinery!

Are you more comfortable dealing with a machine's bullE36 M3, and fixing it? Or dealing with a person's bullE36 M3 and fixing it?

I'm about the same age as you are. I have been offered a management position in my company a few times, the last time they pushed me hard enough that I considered it for a while, ultimately turning them down. Management is a time suck. I worried the salaried position would demand a lot more than 40 hours of my time every week, even though my superiors swore up and down they'd respect my time away from work. I didn't believe them then, and I don't now. 

The three managers they brought in instead have all burned out hard, and quit after a year. Always the first to show up, the last to leave, and constantly working on days off. A salary can be a kind of golden handcuff.

I'm sure it's not like that everywhere, and if it's like that for you, maybe it would be worth it. It's just not for me. I like to punch out, and if not, get paid overtime. 

A salary position that primes you to go higher in the company can be a good thing, if that's your goal. It also opens up doors once it's on your resume. But middle management is also easily replaced, and often takes the fall for downturns in company prospects. I've decided I'll take the tradeoffs of being a worker bee. 

If you're 44, you've got a lot of working years left. Your current employment is 'political,' which is rarely good.

Regarding this so-called promotion: what's in it for you?

The pay switch is going to cost you money for some period of time, and there's certainly going to be a lot more stress and less pleasant work. Have they shown you a clear path that makes this a great move for you? In three years? Five years?

What would you say to a good friend who asked you this? Gut check yourself.

(From where I sit, it seems like it might be a move you have to take, but it might also be a very good time to see what other employment options there are at different companies.)

I moved into a production supervisor role early in my career and it sucked for an entire year.  Pushing people to max them out sucked.  A lot of OT that I only got paid straight wage over 50 hours.  Hours 40-50 were free and not paid as it was called a salary up to 50.

Tell them your a hands on mechanical kind of guy - you can fix equipment.  I wouldn't take it.

A promotion with less pay? I'm with JT, hard pass. 

Managing people is always a challenge in my experience.  I declined one management position with a multinational early in my professional career after managing a production plant before college and clearly disliking that part of the job.  Machines and automation were cool.  Prototype/development work and process engineering were my favorites.  Dealing with the hassles of production scheduling and personnel issues were exhausting and frustrating.  Please recall that YMMV.

In reply to Datsun310Guy :

^^ What he said. 

Is this a good move for you?  Or is it good for T?  How much do you trust T?  Enough that it may affect your family?

A good company realizes their employees each have strengths & weaknesses, and allows them to be managed toward their strengths. Otherwise you're just herding cats, and making them mad at you the entire time. 
 

To me this "opportunity" sounds like the latter, and I'd avoid it unless you really think you want to move your career in a management direction. 

My experience has been regardless of position, never take a pay cut, even a little one. That tells them it's ok to berkeley you when it's convenient.

A pay cut and it's salary???

Do they also kick your puppy and light your car on fire?

This sounds like a terrible idea, not terrible but-somehow-good/fun/arousing/super fun, actual literal terrible idea. Flee while you still can bad

I'd (very politely) say no to a lateral move with a pay cut. Especially if it involves supervising people.

And you probably know best. How is T going to respond to a no? Some people understand and others take it as a slap in the face. T may have gone out on a limb to recommend you and the lower pay scale for the new position may have been decided above his pay grade so diplomacy is required if you turn him down.

Good luck with whichever way you decide.

I wonder how many hours/wk the salary position is likely to involve? I see a lot of salary roles like that which require more time commitment than an hourly role where you can truly be "off the clock" when you leave. I'd bet the salary role is likely to require more of your time than you currently work in addition to paying less, which would be a double whammy.

Stepping outside of your comfort zone can be a good thing, but not for less money and more stress. If you're going to have more stress and less job security, then you should be compensated for that. Otherwise:

I appreciate all the advice and after sleeping on it last night I think I fall in line with the consensus. 

In reply to 67LS1 :

So in the conversation with HR she told me that T views me as his right hand man.  I think he would understand as I made it very clear it depended on the money when we were having our conversation.  If he wants me bad enough maybe he'll push for more.  But it just doesn't make sense to me right now. 

Without more details it's hard to say. If you are ending up being managed by someone you generally can get a long with and trust, I'd put some weight into that. Also, can this position be good experience even if you go back to the equipment side? I have found in my career being surrounded by the right people (leadership, team members) is more important than anything else (compensation included).

In reply to Nick Comstock :

The company I work for made hundreds of millions last year. I got a $25 Wal*Mart gift card. That's all I have to add.

Nick Comstock said:

In reply to 67LS1 :

 I think he would understand as I made it very clear it depended on the money when we were having our conversation.  If he wants me bad enough maybe he'll push for more.  But it just doesn't make sense to me right now. 

I've been in this exact situation, twice. Same company, different locations, I was approached to leave the maintenance department to take on a production supervisor role. I considered it the first time and concluded that, if my goals were to become a manger, it would be a step in that direction, but the maintenance job was probably going to be the better long term bet. I think I made the right decision. Supervisors are easy to find, millwrights are at a premium, have been for some time, and we're only going to get harder to find.

In reply to secretariata (Forum Supporter) :

Huh?   Not if you discuss this up front.  I'm not following.