Number of people killed by law enforcement in Canada this year? One.
Number of Canadian Law Enforcement killed in duty (homocide) in 2016: One.
Canadian Population: 35 million.
Number of US Law Enforcement killed in duty (homocide) in 2016: 34.
Number of people killed by US Law Enforcement in 2016: 509.
USA population: 385 million.
Per capita, we're about even on deaths of civilians, and considerably lower on deaths of police. Morbid statistics, but worth knowing.
Couple of things for all of us to remember.....
We sit and discuss, but please don't limit it to just this board. Talk with friends, co-workers, neighbors, etc. Free discussion across multiple viewpoints helps to de-polarize us as a nation. If you limit your discussions to those with similar views, your views (and theirs) will continue to be skewed. It will not be easy. It will challenge your ability to stay calm. But, I encourage you to try.
The media wants headlines to drive traffic to make money. It is a concentrated effort these days to find less sensational news. However, looking at multiple outlets and reports can help to give you the bigger picture.
Although any killings, by law enforcement, individuals, groups, etc are horrible and should be reduced in any capacity, the sensationalism of these recent acts do not a trend make. If you concentrate on police involved shootings, last year was 990 and this year we are at 506. Slightly higher, but again, not a trend or epidemic. (BTW, I am suspect to any news article these days, but that was the first thing that popped up when searching and seems relatively credible). Don't fall into the trap that it's a significant increase. We are a strong nation that has been through a great deal.
While I 100% agree it must stop, I also step back to see that, contrary to what we are led to believe, things are not "getting worse", per se.
-Rob
PHeller wrote: Number of people killed by law enforcement in Canada this year? One.
…but how many times did they try? 
Klayfish wrote: It's real easy to sit in our comfy chairs and Monday morning quarterback the police, isn't it?
Possibly. It's easy to get angry about some of the things they have done too. It's also easy to sit at home and dismiss a growing undercurrent of anger toward government and authority as a few mentally unstable madmen who watch too much TV. But, when the mob's fuse gets lit because of injustices for which there is no "official" remedy - bad juju happens in a escalating cycle like Bugs Bunny and Yosemite Sam grabbing bigger and bigger cannons. It eventually doesn't really matter whether the reason is real, imagined or blown out of proportion by those to whom that sort of thing is useful. Just like it doesn't matter to the politicians and knee-jerk activists who will surely try to improve their position on some sort of legislation over this disaster.
This is the sort of impending crisis that probably requires some sort of great leadership to quell but... I'm pretty sure the emperor will fiddle while Rome burns. It's just how we roll here.
There are 76 firearms per 100 residents in Serbia. 46 in Switzerland. More than 30 in Canada, France, Germany, Sweden, Norway and Austria. Around the western world, lots of people have access to guns... but these countries are some of the safest to live in. Why does the US have so much gun violence? Why is our homicide rate double that of Sierra Leone or Malawi or Israel, places infamous for violence?
I do feel for the police. Around here, we had a deputy shot and killed when he tried to stop a kid who was walking down the street carrying a gun and wearing a bandanna over his face. This is in the middle of the day. The officer tried to use a stun gun on him and got shot for his trouble. Sounds like the kid was trying for suicide by cop but failed - see the statements from him.
It's easy to say that the deputy should have gone for his gun in the first place, but really he did exactly what we all hope the cops will do. Walking down the street with an unconcealed weapon is not an automatic death sentence - but the poor deputy had no way of knowing he was dealing with a whackjob.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. This has really rocked our community, as things like this just don't happen around here. But you can bet that the local cops will be more likely to reach for their firearm than a non-lethal these days.
nderwater wrote: There are 76 firearms per 100 residents in Serbia. 46 in Switzerland. More than 30 in Canada, France, Germany, Sweden, Norway and Austria. Around the western world, *lots* of people have access to guns... but these countries are some of the safest to live in. Why does the US have so much gun violence? Why is our homicide rate double that of Sierra Leone or Malawi or Israel, places infamous for violence?
Figure that out and you'll win the Nobel peace prize.
bearmtnmartin wrote: It must be terrifying to be a cop in America right now. Every time they pull someone over they sweat and worry that they may be shot, so they are extremely jumpy, which means they make mistakes. Up here it would take five minutes to unstrap the gun, and point it at someone. Down there apparently the gun is already out for a routine traffic stop? berkeley the right to bear arms. Just start crushing guns. Or how about if you still have the right to bear arms, if only you could actually find one? I'd like a Mercedes 300sl and it's legal for me to have one, but they didn't make very many and they are really expensive. So I probably won't get one. As a Canadian I am tired of listening to this E36 M3 and I will never understand.
Lol, no. Maybe that's how the media has spun it. Police officers don't have their guns drawn at traffic stops.
Best wishes for all families of the officers involved. I saw the videos of the scene and it was like something out of a war movie.
The Democratic National Convention is going to be in Philadelphia later this month and they just released the list of roads that will be closed for it and it will be interesting with all the pending protests that are planned and such. Police from Philadelphia are going to Cleveland for the RNC to see how the police there handle the convention.
PHeller wrote: Number of people killed by law enforcement in Canada this year? One. Number of Canadian Law Enforcement killed in duty (homocide) in 2016: One. Canadian Population: 35 million. Number of US Law Enforcement killed in duty (homocide) in 2016: 34. Number of people killed by US Law Enforcement in 2016: 509. USA population: 385 million. Per capita, we're about even on deaths of civilians, and considerably lower on deaths of police. Morbid statistics, but worth knowing.
I think you need to re-check your math there.
I'm sticking with the comment I posted in the 'be excellent' thread and staying out of this one. Sad and disturbing week this has been.
My take away from this thread is to go home tonight and cherish my wife and son.
NordicSaab wrote: My take away from this thread is to go home tonight and cherish my wife and son.
Amen. And try to help someone else.
T.J. wrote: I'm sticking with the comment I posted in the 'be excellent' thread and staying out of this one. Sad and disturbing week this has been.
Yeah, I agree. Debating statistics and playing armchair quarterback doesn't really help.
How about this: How can you be part of the solution? If we all work together towards a common good, maybe we can eventually get there.
NordicSaab wrote: My take away from this thread is to go home tonight and cherish my wife and son.
Agreed.
And be very careful during your interactions with police. Those guys are in a very bleak, no win situation, and much like me, they would rather be tried by twelve than carried by six.
Be very clear with your actions. Communicate all movements and intentions, armed or not.
I have no basis by which to agree or disagree with this editorial, but it's a perspective I've never seen in the news media before:
On any given day, in any police department in the nation, 15 percent of officers will do the right thing no matter what is happening. Fifteen percent of officers will abuse their authority at every opportunity. The remaining 70 percent could go either way depending on whom they are working with.
I'm a black ex-cop, and this is the real truth about race and policing
dculberson wrote:PHeller wrote: Number of people killed by law enforcement in Canada this year? One. Number of Canadian Law Enforcement killed in duty (homocide) in 2016: One. Canadian Population: 35 million. Number of US Law Enforcement killed in duty (homocide) in 2016: 34. Number of people killed by US Law Enforcement in 2016: 509. USA population: 385 million. Per capita, we're about even on deaths of civilians, and considerably lower on deaths of police. Morbid statistics, but worth knowing.I think you need to re-check your math there.
In case anyone is wondering, Per Capita numbers:
Canada: 1 police death per 35,000,000 people
Canada: 1 police killing per 35,000,000 people
USA: 1 police death per 11,323,529 people (or 3 times as more per capita than Canada)
USA: 1 police killing per 756,385 people (or 46 times as more per capita than Canada)
This is assuming that the population and mortality rates that Pheller gave are accurate. Any of these numbers is effectively zero from a mathematical standpoint, but do not try to tell that to anyone who knew or loved any of the deceased.
Officer just shot here. I have a feeling Business at the surplus store is going to increase... 
PHeller wrote: What? Covering the fact that unarmed people, whether black or not, are being shot and killed police? 35 Unarmed people. 22 with Toy Weapons. 88 with knives. 124 with known mental illness. I don't care if they are black, white, or green, shooting unarmed people is a pretty big deal.
Yes, shooting anyone is a big deal, since it can easily take a life. But, pure numbers don't tell the whole story.
The "unarmed" label is literally accurate, gut frequently it fails to convey the highly-charged situation. In a number of cases (according to data gathered by The Washington Post), if the victim ended up being unarmed, it was not for lack of trying. At least 5 black victims (of the data-set they discussed in the article I read) had reportedly tried to grab the officer's gun, or had been beating the cop with his own equipment (Michael Brown anyone?). Some were shot from an accidental discharge triggered by their own assault on the officer. Two of the "unarmed black victims" were hit by stray fire.
The bottom line is, to me, I have complied with the cop's orders in 100% of my interactions with them, and have been shot 0% of the time. If a cop tells me to strip naked and dance in the street, I'm going to be doing the Funky Chicken in the middle of the street. I'll sort the wrongdoing out later.
Cops are NOT out to harm folks. In Dallas when the shots rang out, the public scattered in terror, while the cops ran toward the gun fire to protect the folks that were protesting against them. But that angle won't make the news, it doesn't stir up any bad feelings.
Ok, I'm going to stop. I need to keep my sanity here.
Keith Tanner wrote:nderwater wrote: There are 76 firearms per 100 residents in Serbia. 46 in Switzerland. More than 30 in Canada, France, Germany, Sweden, Norway and Austria. Around the western world, *lots* of people have access to guns... but these countries are some of the safest to live in. Why does the US have so much gun violence? Why is our homicide rate double that of Sierra Leone or Malawi or Israel, places infamous for violence?Figure that out and you'll win the Nobel peace prize.
How many of those firearms are rifles and how many are hand guns. It is a lot easier to kill somebody with a handgun than it is with a rifle.. especially as people don't usually walk through town with a rifle slung over their shoulder (yes, you can do that in some places, but I digress)
mad_machine wrote:Keith Tanner wrote:How many of those firearms are rifles and how many are hand guns. It is a lot easier to kill somebody with a handgun than it is with a rifle.. especially as people don't usually walk through town with a rifle slung over their shoulder (yes, you can do that in some places, but I digress)nderwater wrote: There are 76 firearms per 100 residents in Serbia. 46 in Switzerland. More than 30 in Canada, France, Germany, Sweden, Norway and Austria. Around the western world, *lots* of people have access to guns... but these countries are some of the safest to live in. Why does the US have so much gun violence? Why is our homicide rate double that of Sierra Leone or Malawi or Israel, places infamous for violence?Figure that out and you'll win the Nobel peace prize.
......not really. Handguns as a general rule have shorter range,lower power by huge amounts and are harder to shoot more accurately.
Handguns are just easier to carry
This has been a truly awful week. 
From what I can see, it's not so much a race problem, or an overreaching authority problem. It's a cultural problem with society as a whole. Quite simply, the value of life is lost to many in today's society, and that's a basic virtue that runs across all lines, including gender, race, religion, etc. It doesn't matter who you are, where you are from, or what you do for a living: life is precious. People have lost respect for that simple fact.
It's not a gun problem, it's not a "blame it on the president" problem, and it's not a race problem. It's a cultural problem. Its NOT OK for anyone to kill someone else based on their beliefs. It's NOT OK for the media to sensationalize these events, either. Pointing fingers is not going to solve anything.
Everyone has an opinion, I know. But if we strip it down to the basics, people need to change the way they think and act toward each other, period. Nothing will change by sending "thoughts and prayers" through the internet. Go out there and actually, in REAL LIFE, be excellent to each other!
Antihero wrote:bearmtnmartin wrote: It must be terrifying to be a cop in America right now. Every time they pull someone over they sweat and worry that they may be shot, so they are extremely jumpy, which means they make mistakes. Up here it would take five minutes to unstrap the gun, and point it at someone. Down there apparently the gun is already out for a routine traffic stop? berkeley the right to bear arms. Just start crushing guns. Or how about if you still have the right to bear arms, if only you could actually find one? I'd like a Mercedes 300sl and it's legal for me to have one, but they didn't make very many and they are really expensive. So I probably won't get one. As a Canadian I am tired of listening to this E36 M3 and I will never understand.Lol, no. Maybe that's how the media has spun it. Police officers don't have their guns drawn at traffic stops.
But that distinctive sound of a holster unsnapping during a traffic stop on a dark highway is something I don't enjoy. And that's even with pulling as far off the roadway as possible, hazards on, dome lights on, all windows down, and remaining completely still to notify them there is a firearm present in the vehicle. You can never be too careful, and you have to understand that it's two or more people meeting in that circumstance who do not know each other, and they will err on the side of caution. All parties must know how to make each other at ease. I see it as a speed trust building exercise.
One thing that has helped immensely in Indiana is the initial run of your plate will tell the officer if the owner has a LTCH. While we are typically much more law abiding than most, that tidbit does give them some insight into who they are dealing with.
mad_machine wrote:Keith Tanner wrote:How many of those firearms are rifles and how many are hand guns. It is a lot easier to kill somebody with a handgun than it is with a rifle.. especially as people don't usually walk through town with a rifle slung over their shoulder (yes, you can do that in some places, but I digress)nderwater wrote: There are 76 firearms per 100 residents in Serbia. 46 in Switzerland. More than 30 in Canada, France, Germany, Sweden, Norway and Austria. Around the western world, *lots* of people have access to guns... but these countries are some of the safest to live in. Why does the US have so much gun violence? Why is our homicide rate double that of Sierra Leone or Malawi or Israel, places infamous for violence?Figure that out and you'll win the Nobel peace prize.
The excessive bulk are handguns, rifles make up well under 1% last I checked. The FBI does do a decent job of keeping track of those reports.
Here is how I deal with a police officer when I'm armed (the verbage I use is VERY specific and very intentional)
1) I open with both hands on the steering wheel, I greet the officer and tell him "I am licenced to carry and conceal in this state and am in possession of a firearm, it is ------------- wherever it is. I fully understand what you guys deal with and I want to make sure that you are safe and comfortable today, how would you like me to proceed?"
2)I follow his directions very carefully and make No sudden movements what so ever.
2.5) I f he asks to see the aforementioned firearm (never happened to me), I do not sweep him and I open the action and remove the magazine before any other movements if possible. I would be fairly hesitant to hand it over but would judge that situation if it arose.
3) I go about my business, in my experience getting off on tickets that I would have received otherwise imho as a result of the way I interacted with him.
4) I have a blue line sticker on my car. It tells him that I'm not a threat before he even sees what I look like. Prejudice works both ways.
5) I am not intimidated by anyone on this earth, badge or not. I know what's right and I follow that code above all else.
I get that the guy who got shot was trying to make the right moves, but how we use our speach is Very important. Sometimes life or death important, I'm not judging anyone but I think I would have been saved from his fate because of the opening sentence (if not by the blue sticker).
How does shutting down a freeway help your cause?
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