Covid fogger questions

californiamilleghia said:

for Uber - Lyft drivers  is there some kind of Covid "flea bomb"  that you can put in your car at the end of the day and let it kill the "Covid coodies" overnight ?   and leave no smell or a nice smell for the morning ?

No, not one currently approved for SARS-CoV-2 or on list N. It's not a reliable application method and the EPA doesn't like to approve it. I've looked into that some at a request from our owner. 

If it WAS largely Hydrogen peroxide, I'd be pretty scared of it. 

I had a wise old professor tell me if I was ever in a facility and saw a drum of hydrogen peroxide of 50% concentration I should immediately leave. Don't ask questions, don't talk to anyone, just walk out the front door. Tends to spontaneously explode when stored at those concentrations. 

MadScientistMatt said:

wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) (Forum Supporter) said:

Edit: Our product appears to be largely hydrogen peroxide. Doesn't sound too bad.

That depends on...

1. What concentration? A 3% solution isn't bad, but I wouldn't want it on my good clothes. Spraying a 30% solution, and I'd want a Hazmat suit and full body respirator. If they're insane enough to load the fogger with a 70% solution, you're in rocket monopropellant territory.

2. What chemicals it might come in contact with? Working with it around acetone, for example, is a hard no.

2oz per gallon, so 1/64 ratio or 1.56%

Still, I'm glad to know the stuff I bubble my ears out with can destroy bronze(as ShawnG pointed out).

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

According to the SDS, that product is not largely hydrogen peroxide. That's only 1-5%. 
 

Posted before I'd been able to see the SDS. Given how much you're supposed to dillute it, my skepticism moves from whether it would do too much to whether this would do anything at all.

In reply to MadScientistMatt :

I agree. 
 

In reply to wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) (Forum Supporter) :

You've got your ratio wrong. The product STARTS with only 1-5% and THEN gets diluted 1:64. That's more like 0.04%.
 

It's water. 

Actually the SDS says te concentrate is 1-5% peroxide. You are then diluting that @ 2oz/gallon, so final peroxide concentration would be 1-5% OF that 1.56%.  As a reference, over the counter "peroxide" in the brown bottle is usually 3% H2O2 in distilled water. 

For everyone's reference, here's how you can find the full, EPA approved label for any EPA-registered product. First, you need the product name or, better yet, the EPA Registration Number. Every registered product has one and it is required to be listed on the label. Some companies inclue it on the SDS, but it's not a requirement. 

So, from the SDS Whelsmithy linked above, the name is likely "Maxim Facility +".  It's not always as easy as you'd think to decide what the official correct name is. 

Next, go to THIS EPA WEBPAGE where youu can search for product by different criteria. Put the name in the "Product or Alternative Brand Name" box. This is where things get tricky. This search can be pretty nit-picky about how you spell stuff, punctuation, etc. as you start typing it will offer you suggestions based on the entries in the database. Use those to find what you're looking for. If there are no pop ups, you're likely not using the "correct" name in some way.

Hit the search button at the bottom of the page and you get this:

Notice the product name listed here is HP2O2? It's not unusual that a single registered product has many alternate brand names.  At the bottom you have multiple tabs of available info. The main one is Labels, where you can see a chronological list of labels that the company registered with the EPA. Clicking these will open the PDF of what's called the "Stamped Label."

A Stamped label is a huge document that covers every possible organism  claim that the company has data to back up, along with every possible use pattern, alternate name, marketing statement, or label drawing that the company might want to use. It's a large bank of stuff that a company can then pick and choose from to create different "products" or even different labels for the same product that may be focussed on different users or markets.  Sometimes it takes a lot of work to sort through a full stamped label to find the info you want.

One last piece - notice the Reg No above only has one dash in it? That means it's a "primary" registration - this company developed the formula, paid for the testing, and registered the formula. If a Reg No has 2 dashes, it's a "Secondary" registration - meaning the company is paying a primary registrant to use their data and formula under a rebranded name. To find the stamped label, remove the final -## from the Reg No and search just the first part, that's the original primary registration .    IE, a Reg No of 45745-11-12 would be a secondary registration of this primary, 45745-11.

Any questions? There will be a quiz at the end of the clas...

MadScientistMatt said:

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

According to the SDS, that product is not largely hydrogen peroxide. That's only 1-5%. 
 

Posted before I'd been able to see the SDS. Given how much you're supposed to dillute it, my skepticism moves from whether it would do too much to whether this would do anything at all.

Yes, it will. That's the whole point of EPA registration. You have to PROVE with SIGNIFICANT 3rd party testing that your product does what you claim WHEN USED AS INSTRUCTED.  And there are specific mathematical definitions of organism reduction for "disinfect" as well as "sanitize" among others. And there are specific approved lab procedures for each claim.

If you use a registered product as intended, yo are guaranteed to get the results advertised. At least as far as organism kill goes. 

EDIT: and you'd be surprised how little peroxide it takes to kill enveloped viruses. It's truly a great resource as an active ingredient.

DOUBLE EDIT: this is also why using it as directed is such a legally critical thing. The EPA approves it based on a specific use. Anything outside of that - you don't know if it's killing or not.  And the average user has know way to find out if it DID work, which is why the EPA was made to step in and require testing. And why it says "It is a violation of Federal Law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with it's labeling" on every EPA registered product. If you use it wrong and it doesn't kill you could be putting people's health at risk. 

This is a lot more serious than most people ever thought about before a pandemic...

In reply to ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) :

You are right on all counts. However, google works pretty good too. 
 

The easier way is to ask your employer. ALL employers are required to supply SDSs for ALL products they use. 

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

You're right, but again, SDSs aren't required to tell you how to use it, and they don't tell you anything about the chemical once you alter it from how it's packaged. Admittedly, hunting down stamped labels is way down the nerd rabbit hole.

Corrections and advice greatly appreciated, fellas. Most of my co workers were glad that I spearheaded this today, and along with you guys' help, I looked smart-no easy feat.

Thanks.

In reply to wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) (Forum Supporter) :

Smartest thing I do at work is con coworkers into asking my stupid questions.

In reply to Stampie (FS) :

There are no stupid questions just stupid people 

In reply to Wally (Forum Supporter) :

Yeah I often say that my coworkers are stupid.

In reply to Stampie (FS) :

What can I say-Quixote complex?

Well, I've just spent the night nearly sleepless in a rage. 3 days in to the fogging, and the maintenance guy on the same level as me has not yet taken his turn fogging. He's leaving it to me, two women, and our manager. I'm pretty sure he refused to spray, and the manager is so spineless, he is backing him. 

I confronted them yesterday with the fact that this action destroyed morale, tried to talk team building, and generally called them both cowards. Neither could look me in the eye.

It wouldn't be so bad if this shiny happy person wouldn't come up offering advice, and acting like he was helping. For a $12/hr job. 

Rage?

Its probably not worth that. Chill man- it's ok

And thank you. For making the effort

It's always frustrating when you're going above and beyond and others aren't willing to even do the job they're being paid for.  I wish I had sage advice, but it pisses me off too.