E-bike thread

I know we've had a few bicycle threads that included E-bikes, but I'm in the market.

Needs:  500-ish watts.  I'm over 200 lbs and we have lots of steep/rolling hills.  11Ah should get the job done, but 14Ah would be better.

Style: not entirely sure.  I picture using this as a replacement for fair weather transportation that should fit the bill for anything from 1-2 miles to a store to grab something I need for a recipe up to and including riding to work and back to not pollute with fuel (8 miles each way).

Brakes:  Most are disc, but I don't need hydraulic.  I'm riding a bike to Home Depot, not coming down a steep mountain.

Terrain is suburban (where I live) to small urban area.  Roads are poor, sidewalks poorer.  I won't ever take it to the trails.  This would be a commuter/DD when it's logical to not fire up a V6 for no need.  If it ever went off-road, it would be brief, and not hard riding.

Does that sound like a fat-tire beach/snow bike?  Or a mountain bike?  I was thinking that a fat tire would offer a more reliable "suspension" than a poorly engineered actual suspension on a bike in the price range I'm shooting for.

Let me say it this way... I want a DD/rally car for $1000 or less that is rugged enough to hop a few sidewalks.  Basically that is what this bike is meant to replace.   I need the E-bike version of Herbie the Love Bug.  Don't need crazy bells and whistles, or I'd be asking for the E-bike version of an FJ or a Range Rover.  Lights, battery indicator, throttle (or torque sensing pedal assist, not the resolution pedal assist).

I bought my first e-bike in early 2019, and it changed my life. I've been a casual cyclist all my life, but in my mid 60's, I couldn't ride with my grandkids anymore as they were way too fast for me. Hearing a 6 year old yell back at me "C'mon grandpa, you can rest on the way down!" was the final straw. The e-bike made riding fun again - hills, headwinds don't exist any more. I'm riding far, far more than I have in the past 20 years, easily doing 50 km rides (30 miles). I get more exercise on the e-bike than I did on my old mountain bike because I actually get out and ride it all the time. 

Don't worry too much about motor power or battery size - for the use you describe, virtually anything on the market will work fine. Concentrate on the bike part of the e-bike, finding something that suits your needs and is comfortable. It sounds like I'm bigger than you ('though shrinking somewhat due to riding a lot), and my 350 w motor is lots. It's a mid-drive bike, which means the motor has the mechanical advantage of the bike's gears to help out, so a 500 W motor in a hub drive set up (which most of the lower priced bikes are) will be lots. I'm riding a  Giant Explore E+, which would likely be overkill for what you're wanting. But, be prepared to ride more than you expected, because it will feel like your legs just got younger!

The torque sensing systems are wondrous, as it provides a far more 'bike-like' riding experience, i.e. it feels exactly like any bike you're used to riding, but as if your legs were magically 20 years younger. The simpler designs are more on/off in character, which for your described use, wouldn't be much of a problem. But, many people I know who have got e-bikes have upgraded to more expensive bikes once they've gotten hooked on biking again.

One downside to be aware of is weight. As with all bikes, the less expensive it is, the heavier it is. Mine's around 48 lb, but some are over 70. If you're just riding it, no biggie, but if you're hoisting it onto bike racks, over a tailgate or up stairs to where you store it, this is a real consideration. I ride with a group of retirees, and hoisting some of their bikes onto the tailgate is all I can manage.

As for the fat bike vs mountain bike decision, yes fat bike tires make a passable suspension system, but make for very squishy, imprecise handling. Think of putting floatation tires on a Miata... Most mountain bikes have 2.4 to 2.6 inch tires, which are plenty capable for handling potholes and lousy pavement. You won't find a full suspension e mountain bike for under $3000, but even a fairly rudimentary front suspension is useful, and aren't really troublesome at all.

In our area, there are a variety of shops that will rent e-bikes of various styles, so I'd suggest that as a place to start, to get a sense of how the various options feel, how much power you need, price vs quality considerations, etc. Many of the lower priced e-bikes are only available online, so the rentals can be your best option for a test ride.

Have fun!

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Check out Rad bikes. I know a few people who have them and are very happy with them. All have the more utilitarian models. They are not light or especially pretty.

How long do the batteries last , not in hours but how many years if you are buying a used one ?

I have seen some for sale with dead batteries and the replacements were $300 or so....

Is there a place that "restores" the old battery pack with new cells ?

I have an Electra Townie and an old Schwinn paper bike (my downhill bike). I've been want to convert one of them.

The Townie has an aluminum frame so that one may not be a good choice, between my weight and the added weight of the motor and battery i'd likely overload it.

The real downside of either bike is the lack of disc brakes, it is far too wet here to rely on rim brakes.

I might buy a Walmart bike and convert it.....

My bro has a Raleigh - its like a fat-ish mountain bike.   29x3 tires, hydraulic disks, decent front suspension.  Its pretty sweet.  He uses it to keep up with the rest of us 20MPH jerks on road rides.  

My only suggestion is I would buy from a trusted name brand - bike store brand, not a Bikes Direct unit or some Chinesium garbage from Ebay.  Specialized and Trek have a vested interest in parts availability, the other guys don't.

All wonderful suggestions, but hard cap on this budget is $1200.  Specialized E-bikes start around $4000 and go as high as $15,000.  If I'm going to spend $4000 on anything, it won't be a beginner e-bike.

I'm not scared of the Chinese bikes.  They use off-the-shelf brake and deraileur parts, and the rest is pretty standardized.  They haven't reinvented the wheel or used proprietary parts that make them unserviceable.  One of the things I've found with the more premium brands (looking at Raleigh in particular) is that they seem to have gone to great lengths to make SURE many of their parts are proprietary so you have to buy service parts from them.

I agree on getting a quality bike, but even some of the hardcore review sites are starting to lean toward China as an option that is 90% as good for 40% the price.

Gotta disagree there - I am in the buy once cry once camp.  The sweet angle is used name brand.  Generics and knockoffs have no name recognition so they are worth nothing on the secondary market, and since they are not sold by the LBS but instead direct to consumer, they are typically owned by a different class of person and receive 2nd tier care.

My friends Motobecane is a real turd compared to my (extremely) comparable Speciaized Crux.  On paper they were almost identical.  In reality, The Special Ed was way way nicer in all the intangibles.  And I bought it for $1k and sold it for $1500.  Can't do that with a Motobecane.  

93gsxturbo said:

Gotta disagree there - I am in the buy once cry once camp.  The sweet angle is used name brand.  Generics and knockoffs have no name recognition so they are worth nothing on the secondary market, and since they are not sold by the LBS but instead direct to consumer, they are typically owned by a different class of person and receive 2nd tier care.

My friends Motobecane is a real turd compared to my (extremely) comparable Speciaized Crux.  On paper they were almost identical.  In reality, The Special Ed was way way nicer in all the intangibles.  And I bought it for $1k and sold it for $1500.  Can't do that with a Motobecane.  

Hmmm.... trying to not take that as shaming.  I appreciate the input, though.

You are an avid bike rider, evidently.  I am not.  Aside from the Trek (which I won in a free drawing in 1992) my last bicycle was a WalMart special that I dug out of someone's trash and put a $3 inner tube in.  This is a utility, not a passion.  You're talking about a used e-bike that costs twice as much as my last DD purchase.  I feel like I'm asking "new to autocross and poor, what should I get," and your answer is "used McLaren or go home."

And... have you looked at used e-bikes?  They're selling in minutes at more than retail.  Not a good time for used ebikes.

procainestart said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Check out Rad bikes. I know a few people who have them and are very happy with them. All have the more utilitarian models. They are not light or especially pretty.

I have found them.  They are high on my list, but the Rover I would want is a tough sell at $1500 for my wallet.

In reply to Turboeric :

Thanks for the encouragement.  I'm still picturing a Miata with floatation tires :)

I rock a motobecane.   It has been an awesome bike and I liked it because it was more precise than the specialized I tried.

I have a fair number of medals from racing it too....

In other words, bikes are weird in that even if you pay more, but there is something about the geometry that just doesn't suite you, you won't like riding it.

Check out bikesdirect.com.  they have bikes that are much less expensive than the better known brands, but are the same quality from my perspective.  There is some truth that most of the middle to low end bikes are all made by only 3 or 4 companies out of Taiwan.  These companies make the bikesdirect bikes too.

Ymmv...

californiamilleghia said:

How long do the batteries last , not in hours but how many years if you are buying a used one ?

I have seen some for sale with dead batteries and the replacements were $300 or so....

Is there a place that "restores" the old battery pack with new cells ?

I'm sure you could do it yourself.  It takes a real manufacturing flaw to mess up Li-ion charging, so I would expect them to far outlive the 1-2 year warranty.

They are stuffed with incredibly common 18650 batteries which are available for not a ton of money.  You could theoretically retrofit new cells into the old pack depending on it's construction.

Or, if you're like me, you buy a $29 charger for 18650 batteries that analyzes them and tells you the mAh.  Then you buy a surplus lot of batteries from laptops, cordless tools, or other appliances, tear out the 18650s and test.  Keep the good, ditch the bad.

I have a stockpile of about 100 18650s right now waiting to be tested.

wvumtnbkr said:

I rock a motobecane.   It has been an awesome bike and I liked it because it was more precise than the specialized I tried.

 

I have a fair number of medals from racing it too....

 

In other words, bikes are weird in that even if you pay more, but there is something about the geometry that just doesn't suite you, you won't like riding it.

 

Check out bikesdirect.com.  they have bikes that are much less expensive than the better known brands, but are the same quality from my perspective.  There is some truth that most of the middle to low end bikes are all made by only 3 or 4 companies out of Taiwan.  These companies make the bikesdirect bikes too.

 

Ymmv...

Thanks for the link.

Used would be fine with me if I could find one that didn't cost more than what it did new.

Keep in mind we're talking about Electric bikes.  Sure, I can find a Motobecane used for $1200, but I can't afford an $8000 Motobecane HAL eBoost.

Yeah, without actually looking, I assumed they would have a decent ebike in your price range.  Do3snt need to be motobecane from that site.

P.s. this is a horrible time to look for bikes afaik.  Companies have not been able to keep up with demand due to everybody supposedly having more time on their hands and lots of people trying to exercise more.

My local bike shop sells the bikes they get as soon as they hit the shelves!

It was a terrible time through about July.  Now that it's fall, manufacturing has caught up for most companies.

That isn't to say that local bike shops have received a ton of bikes yet, but my local shop has doubled their inventory in the last couple months despite strong sales continuing.

If I go direct-to-consumer and order a bike, nearly all of them ship immediately, so they must have plenty in stock.

Ironically, it was my local shop that informed me that many of the parts that Raleigh sources for their low-end ebikes is the same exact Bafang and lower-end Shimano stuff as everyone else.  When he heard my budget and knew he couldn't put me in anything, he was very forthcoming with info.  I appreciated it.  Wish I could afford his stuff because that's the sort of thing that gets me to open up a wallet.  Just a shame my wallet isn't much help for what my heart wants.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

If I go direct-to-consumer and order a bike, nearly all of them ship immediately, so they must have plenty in stock.

Ironically, it was my local shop that informed me that many of the parts that Raleigh sources for their low-end ebikes is the same exact Bafang and lower-end Shimano stuff as everyone else.  When he heard my budget and knew he couldn't put me in anything, he was very forthcoming with info.  I appreciated it.  Wish I could afford his stuff because that's the sort of thing that gets me to open up a wallet.  Just a shame my wallet isn't much help for what my heart wants.

At your price point, you're pretty much locked into a used bike, which is pretty much impossible at the moment. As you note, they vanish quickly. In the group I cycle with, there have been 4 used e-bikes sold that never hit the market, but went straight to another group member. Our group has quite a number of lower end Bafang powered bikes, and there have been zero problems with them. They aren't as smooth to engage as some of the more sophisticated (and much more expensive) drivetrains, but they seem to get the job done. As you've seen, every sub $1800 bike has them.

One thing I wonder is about waiting until next summer. There has been a frenzy of buying recreation equipment to use during the lock down, and I can't help but think that people may decide they're not using the stuff enough to justify having the money tied up in them, and sell them on. Kind of like buying exercise equipment in April, after the New Years resolutions have worn off. :) A bull market always goes to the bears eventually.

I suspect the direct to consumer companies simply have a pile of parts, and build them to order.

Here's the target.  American company, but I know primarily Chinese parts.

I might pull the trigger.  750w Bafang motor, 14Ah battery, says it will do 25-40 miles on a charge, but I only expect 20 with my ample buttocks in the seat.  Great seat, full front suspension with adjustable rate and damping, good Shimano drivetrain but not the best, Kenda tires, disc brakes, beefy frame.  As far as I can tell, the only proprietary parts are the electronics, but they aren't voodoo.  They can be replaced or the bike can be retrofitted with nearly anything.

Higher than my budget at $1500, and godawful ugly, but the reviewers love them.  It's a resolution/magnet type pedal sensor, but at least its 12 magnets in the reluctor and they say it is super smooth.

It has everything I want, but it's a little over budget.

Ye masters of bike things, tear it apart and tell me what I won't like about it.  Every single spec about the bike itself is light years ahead of anything I've seen, ridden, or owned, but see above for my limited experience. If you know of something else that might fit well, offer it up.

Here is a video that is way too long

Sur ron/segway x260 is what I'm going to do. The other one that turns me on is the cz, but its not out yet and cannot compete with the aftermarket support of the sur ron/x260. 

So I've rode a friend's homebrew ebike that will do damn near 30mph no pedal assist. I'd liken it to a fairly rough project car that can go pretty fast, but there's a lot of things you need to compensate for. He built it for around $1200? All parts and frame etc.

I rode a couple $3k+ Yamaha ebikes at the last motorcycle show and the integration was seamless. It felt exactly like riding a normal bicycle except someone had transplanted Superman's legs onto mine.

There's a large price delta between my 2 examples. I suggest test riding a few.

It seems to be a really good solution for what you want, except for your price objective. It's an excellent value for what you get 'though - nicely equipped for the price.  I know 2 people with Rad bikes (a Rad Mini and a Rad Runner), and they've been trouble free in their first year.

The Rad Rover looks like a great bike for what it's meant for - which sounds like what you want it for.  Add a trailer and it would probably get more stuff home from Home Depot than a Miata. 

I honestly didn't know any ebikes were available in that price range, but I also haven't looked for one.

If I ever get a fat bike, it'll be a Christini AWD version.  They even make one with e-bike bits.  They're not cheap, although they are made local (to me) in Philadelphia, which is kinda cool... Granted, I'm sure if I bought one I would never see snow again.

clutchsmoke said:

So I've rode a friend's homebrew ebike that will do damn near 30mph no pedal assist. I'd liken it to a fairly rough project car that can go pretty fast, but there's a lot of things you need to compensate for. He built it for around $1200? All parts and frame etc.

I rode a couple $3k+ Yamaha ebikes at the last motorcycle show and the integration was seamless. It felt exactly like riding a normal bicycle except someone had transplanted Superman's legs onto mine.

There's a large price delta between my 2 examples. I suggest test riding a few.

This was my first thought as well, but the only bike I had at the time was a Pink Schwinn from walmart that I pulled from someone's trash.  Not a worthy donor.  I figure until I get the $350 kit, the $350 battery, and buy a $300 worthy bike, I'm right around $1000 anyway, and without the bells and whistles.  Then I have a used bike with a bunch of labor for almost the same money as buying a shiny new bike with 2-year warranty.

Turboeric said:

It seems to be a really good solution for what you want, except for your price objective. It's an excellent value for what you get 'though - nicely equipped for the price.  I know 2 people with Rad bikes (a Rad Mini and a Rad Runner), and they've been trouble free in their first year.

That's good to know.  It's one of those things where that bike has all I ever dreamed of really and it's so close to my budget maybe I could call Elon Musk and borrow a few bucks.

In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :

They're out there in that price range, but you are dancing the edge of Amazon junk.  Heck, there are complete bikes out there with 500w, 11Ah, and a Shimano deraileur for $600, but without a name that has proven to be good, I'm skeptical.  Names like Ancheer and Yiilove are being pushed by Amazon, but that's a little too sketchy for me.  All of those name-brand parts don't mean much when someone stick-welds some thin wall steel into something that looks like a bike but crumbles when you sit on it.

Like I said, I don't mind chinesium.  Chinese stuff has actually come lightyears forward in the last few decades.  99.9% of what we sold at Home Depot was made in china, including that awesome set of bulletproof Milwaukee cordless tools many of us have.  In fact, sometimes Chinese manufacturing has the edge.  Whereas someone like Raleigh, Specialized, or Trek has the means to do a ground-up engineering on proprietary products, Chinese stuff tends to copy industry standards so that they can assemble using off-the-shelf parts to keep things cheap.  That tends to mean replacement parts are basically free when you encounter a bike set out for trash day.