For those who LOVE their infinitely wise and efficient government

there are more topics than just health care

MrJoshua wrote: I think many if not most of the problems with government come from the fact that a politician feels like they have to do something. They are an inept batch of yahoos. The more they mess, the more they screw it up. So yeah, when it comes to a politician making the change, I'm scared of change.

so you're sitting the fence or hiding in your doomsday bunker? good plan!

ignorant wrote:

Jensenman wrote: Maybe we don't have a perfect system but as usual it's better than what's available in all those 'progressive' nations.

Really? Prove it. Have first had experience. I do after getting a sinus infection in the UK. I was taken care of by a great doctor, no waiting, no lines, no nothing... Just come in, yep it's a sinus infection.. you look rough.. here's some drugs. I work with pleny of brits. Not one has told me that he's had to wait for something that wasn't needed. One guy said he wanted his wisdom teeth out but he was on a waiting list because it wasn't needed, not painful, or anything bad...

Yeah, we Colonists with minor stuff get in n' out quick. Check this link out:

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=509943

I'll clip one little bit out.

England Numbers of long-waiting patients have declined:

Outpatient treatment: Number waiting more than 13 weeks fell from about 390,000 in March 2000 to about 40,000 in September 2005

Just for comparison, when my wife needed surgery for a bowel condition, the wait from initial consultation to surgery was less than a week. The only reason it was that long was we needed to make arrangements to take care of the kid. Our deductible & co pay was around $1K.

Today, the booger machine had another respiratory infection. (Bronchitis, last year she had mild pneumonia. )She was in n' out in less than 90 minutes both times. No real wait. My co pay both times? $55 the first time (including medicines) $40 the second time (today). Our health insurance costs us $45 a month, the balance is paid by the wife's work. Probably a damn sight less than Britain's taxes.

ignorant wrote: incorrect. no such thing as a bad change. <-- thats my mantra and I'm sticking to it.

Time to ruin this thread...

That sounds like a great change for Germany, Herr Chancellor!

ignorant wrote:

MrJoshua wrote: I think many if not most of the problems with government come from the fact that a politician feels like they have to do something. They are an inept batch of yahoos. The more they mess, the more they screw it up. So yeah, when it comes to a politician making the change, I'm scared of change.

so you're sitting the fence or hiding in your doomsday bunker? good plan!

Yup, im hiding in my bunker, you are blindly claiming all change is good, both are idiotic stances.We are where we are because of stupid changes. The changes proposed are stupid. In this particular case the "change" is worse than the current crappy situation.

Osterkraut wrote:

ignorant wrote: incorrect. no such thing as a bad change. <-- thats my mantra and I'm sticking to it.

Time to ruin this thread... That sounds like a great change for Germany, Herr Chancellor!

would germany be where it is today without WWII, kicking our butts? I ask you this.

Ohh and by bringing up hitler you have walked into my favorite logical fallacy trap. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

good night.

MrJoshua wrote: Yup, im hiding in my bunker, you are blindly claiming all change is good

nope.. I am choosing a positive outlook on life that says that no change is ever a bad change. I've been negative too long.

ignorant wrote: I am choosing a positive outlook on life that says that no change is ever a bad change.

These two are not logically connected, you realize.

Duke wrote:

ignorant wrote: I am choosing a positive outlook on life that says that no change is ever a bad change.

These two are not logically connected, you realize.

In my mind they are and thats all the proof I need.

ignorant wrote: In my mind they are and thats all the proof I need.

Oooooooooooh-kay. That's the kind of "logic" that's created 99.7% of the mess today's world is in, but whatever.

Duke wrote:

ignorant wrote: In my mind they are and thats all the proof I need.

Oooooooooooh-kay. That's the kind of "logic" that's created 99.7% of the mess today's world is in, but whatever.

incorrect..

My frame of mind is.. change.. evaluate.. change again.. Continuous innovation.

The current problem was.. Change.. do not evaluate.. do not change anything else because we are right and you are wrong.

ignorant wrote:

Duke wrote:

ignorant wrote: In my mind they are and thats all the proof I need.

Oooooooooooh-kay. That's the kind of "logic" that's created 99.7% of the mess today's world is in, but whatever.

incorrect.. My frame of mind is.. change.. evaluate.. change again.. Continuous innovation. The current problem was.. Change.. do not evaluate.. do not change anything else because we are right and you are wrong.

There is a difference in change to improve, and change for the sake of change. If there is a decent chance of an improved situation by changing, then absolutely that should be explored. If the known result of the change is failure, prior to enacting the change, then it would be dumb to proceed.

ignorant wrote: incorrect.. My frame of mind is.. change.. evaluate.. change again.. Continuous innovation.

You've already come in defining any change as positive change, so that pretty much throws your "evaluation" phase out the window.

I never said I don't want change. I want a lot of change. I just think it is foolhardy to assume that any change is for the good. Personally, I think things could get a lot worse with that mindset.

Duke wrote: I never said I don't want change. I want a lot of change. I just think it is foolhardy to assume that any change is for the good. Personally, I think things could get a lot worse with that mindset.

yup and you can get into analysis paralysis with your setup..

change prompts thinking and movement. I still believe there is no such thing as a bad change. Sure.. some are not as great as others, but change exposes current weakeness and current strengths..

just don't taze me bro.

ignorant wrote:

Osterkraut wrote:

ignorant wrote: incorrect. no such thing as a bad change. <-- thats my mantra and I'm sticking to it.

Time to ruin this thread... That sounds like a great change for Germany, Herr Chancellor!

would germany be where it is today without WWII, kicking our butts? I ask you this. Ohh and by bringing up hitler you have walked into my favorite logical fallacy trap. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance good night.

And YOU'VE fallen into MY favorite trap. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law (which was the point of my post).

good morning.

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Osterkraut wrote:

ignorant wrote:

Osterkraut wrote:

ignorant wrote: incorrect. no such thing as a bad change. <-- thats my mantra and I'm sticking to it.

Time to ruin this thread... That sounds like a great change for Germany, Herr Chancellor!

would germany be where it is today without WWII, kicking our butts? I ask you this. Ohh and by bringing up hitler you have walked into my favorite logical fallacy trap. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance good night.

And YOU'VE fallen into MY favorite trap. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law (which was the point of my post). good morning.

involking a meme to win an arugment..

let me ask you hipster, are you wearing American apparel right now? or perhaps the musical stylings of the ting tings?

ignorant wrote:

Osterkraut wrote:

ignorant wrote:

Osterkraut wrote:

ignorant wrote: incorrect. no such thing as a bad change. <-- thats my mantra and I'm sticking to it.

Time to ruin this thread... That sounds like a great change for Germany, Herr Chancellor!

would germany be where it is today without WWII, kicking our butts? I ask you this. Ohh and by bringing up hitler you have walked into my favorite logical fallacy trap. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance good night.

And YOU'VE fallen into MY favorite trap. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law (which was the point of my post). good morning.

involking a meme to win an arugment.. let me ask you hipster, are you wearing American apparel right now?

I just changed, so what I'm wearing matters less than the fact I changed, right?

I do believe this is the first time I've been called a hipster. Are memes hip these days? Do they get the ladies in your area? Perhaps I need to move!

Godwin's Law isn't truely a meme. So i herd u liek mudkips?

Osterkraut wrote: I just changed, so what I'm wearing matters less than the fact I changed, right?

ed hardy shirt, perhaps?

They are so good at handing out a driver's license that we should give them the power to arrest and hold anyone for life without habeus corpus rights.

Give the private sector the profit incentive to hand out a document you are required to have and see what kind of service you end up getting.

By the way, the DMV here in Raleigh is pretty good.

joey48442 wrote:

poopshovel wrote: The point is that MY berkeleying tax dollars are paying for a non-existent "service."

Gosh, and we spend 10 billion per month in Iraq, that must really piss you off! Somehow, Im just not that worried about the DMV, as I think there has been problems with that since the dawn of time. Or the Dawn of the DMV, at least. Joey

ignorant wrote:

Osterkraut wrote: I just changed, so what I'm wearing matters less than the fact I changed, right?

ed hardy shirt, perhaps?

Had to look that up. Found this: http://www1.bloomingdales.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=110672&CategoryID=3864&PartnerID=SHP&cm_mmc=PMD_CSE--Froogle--Product_Terms-_-Ed_Hardy_Death_or_Glory_Stones_Tee&utm_source=GoogleProduct&utm_medium=organic

$88!?!

And to think, I balked when my now-beloved "Weyland-Yutani" shirt was $20! By the way, HAVING a shirt that says "Weyland-Yutani" isn't as trendy as you think.

It's quite a coincidence that we've been talking about Nazis, and the price of that shirt is $88. Perhaps Bloomingdales has secret neo-Nazi ties?

Jensenman wrote: Yeah, we Colonists with minor stuff get in n' out quick. Check this link out: Hehe...he said Colonists

Well you have a colon don't you?

Osterkraut wrote: Had to look that up. Found this: http://www1.bloomingdales.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=110672&CategoryID=3864&PartnerID=SHP&cm_mmc=PMD_CSE-_-Froogle-_-Product_Terms-_-Ed_Hardy_Death_or_Glory_Stones_Tee&utm_source=GoogleProduct&utm_medium=organic *$88!?!*

My theory on overpriced boutique clothing like that, is that they start life as the mistakes that get discarded onto the sweatshop floor. They are then picked up and handed to retarded, deformed, and/or blind 9 year olds who then sew them together with other random crap.

They are then sold at outrageous markups because they're "unique".