Forza, GT4 or 5, iracing, rFactor, LFS, help me decide

Hi, OK, this summer while autox'ing, my young co-worker (who is 20 something) was doing much better than me (40++ something) and mentioned that he spend a lot of time as a kid playing GT2 and that a video simulation would help get my reflexes a little sharper. So what should I get?

Equipment:

• I have the option to get a new XBox360 Arcade for free and posts to this board showing Miata's running in Forza3 got my heart pumping (I have a 99 sport btw).

• My home computer is 7+ years old and I plan to replace it before Christmas. When I get this replacement machine I can spend a few hundred more and spec out a machine geared towards gaming so that opens up the possiblity of a PC based game. My limited research has come up with rFactor or Live for Speed. And of course, there is iRacing.

• Since I am +40, I have a little more discretionary $ and I can could spring for a PS3 and play GT4 until GT5 comes out but I would need to be convinced that GT5 is way better than Forza for what I want to get out of it.

Logistics: If I get an XBox or PS3, it goes in the family room with the big screen TV. Unfortunately if I spend time there playing 'speed racer', my wife will not be watching her stuff (Food TV. Hey, don't knock it; the side benefit is I eat very well and don't want to interfere with that . I guess if this causes a problem I could always move the Xbox into the office and connect it up to my a 21" computer monitor and she can have the big TV. If I'm setup in the office, I could come up with some sort of rig for a steering wheel and pedals that might work better than in the living room.

What I want to get out of this do you ask? I obviously want to improve my reactions times for Autox. I still have a bad habit during Autox of not looking far enough down the coarse and I think a video game/simulator will help.

Misc. rambling: It is cool that with Forza, GT5 and iRacing that you actually have real world tracks (and real world cars), and while that is not important to improving my skills, it is cool. Keep in mind that when I grew up I skipped the video game thing (I never could figure out the addiction my friends had to Pacman) so when I watched videos of Forza my eyes were wide open taking in all the high quality graphics. I don't think the graphics in LFS, rFactor are as good.

Sorry for the long post. So, let the discussion begin. Thoughts?

I don't have experience with any of the PC racing games. I have and love my 360 and you can thank Forza 3 the most for that. I like many other games too, but holy E36 M3 is that particular one fun. I will probably end up buying a PS3 when GT5 comes out too. If I were you, I'd get the 360 and Forza 3. They're awesome with a big screen and surround sound system if you have that. And buy your wife another TV. Put it in the kitchen and see if that sparks any creativity when she cooks?

Also, get XBOX LIVE, as playing against other gearheads is always fun. Just gotta sort through all the whiny children and people who can't drive well in the game.

I-racing is probably the ultimate, being that it uses real tracks and whatnot, but I understand it can be rather expensive, (on-going costs, right?).

In addition to whichever console you choose, I'd recommend getting LFS, too. It's cheap, doesn't require a fancy computer to run good, and while the graphics are rubbish by Forza/GT4 standards, the physics are brilliant. It also allows you to design auto-X courses, simulating your "real life" track layout.

Toca Race driver on the PC has been my favorite race sim thusfar. I like the dynamics better than Forza 2, which I prefer over GT4. I have yet to try Forza 3 yet, though.

A good wheel/pedal setup makes a huge difference.

A gaming PC can be put together pretty inexpensively, especially if you know how to build or find one. Racing games are less graphics intensive than a lot of others. You can actually get away, quite well, with a slightly older machine. Find someone's used gaming rig on Craigslist that's about 6 months old. I got mine that way for $200.

However, if you really want to train yourself to look ahead, do that in your car. I find a game fairly different, since I don't turn my head to spot apexes to the side the way I do in a car. An instructor taught me a great trick for that: stick a hatch of tape in your windshield directly in front of you, about 1" below your eye level. It won't get in your way, but it will really remind you to keep your eyes up.

But racing sims are a good way to get a good sense of a track before you drive it for the first time. I did that with both Infineon and Laguna Seca.

This might help:

Note how close he sits...

If you're looking for some more classic racing, check out Gran Prix Legends, it is an older game with some decent online support and it is tricky to be good at it, but I think they've gotten the experience very close to correct. There is also GT Legends for the door slammers. I've even rocked NASCAR Legends just for porting Riverside to GPL (mmm 60's F1 on Riverside)

Have fun!

+1 on getting a wheel, any simulator just doesn't feel right without one.

I run rFactor on a 3 year old PC and the PC wasn't cutting edge back when I built it. It seems to be working ok with a reasonable spec, offers enough add-on tracks and cars to keep me happy and a lot of tracks are at least based on tracks out in the real world. They might not be as detailed as the iRacing ones but they seem to work well to overcome the 'I have no idea where this track goes' feeling.

rFactor just really doesn't do it for me. I have a license for it, and haven't bothered re-installing since the first time I had to take it off the computer a couple years ago.

I remember the porsche cup mod being pretty good, and that the single seater/F1 cars are fun because they are very challenging... But all road cars seem to have the worst snap oversteer, and any mistake that you make putting yourself over the limit seems borderline un-saveable.

I am a big fan of LFS. Even if you don't buy it, the demo will give you a BMW single seater and a fun road car to play around with and an awesome track.

LFS will run on about anything, and honestly the graphics are not bad at all. Sure, it looks nothing the shiny games that come out now... but its not obvious large polygons either. Its enough to get lost in/pretend its real.

Never tried iRacing, heard its good... but from what I have seen if you really start doing the math on the cost it gets pretty staggering.

I'll chime in on iRacing. I got a trial subscription as a gift over a year ago, and had a love/hate relationship with it for awhile. Short version...I ended up renewing it because they gave me a good offer, and I'll probably keep it for the forseeable future. It doesn't have to be expensive, depending on what you want to accomplish with it.

The basic subscription gets you (for road racing) the Solstice (I'm not a fan) and the Spec Racer Ford. Most people seem to like one or the other but rarely both. You get something like five tracks they rotate through on a weekly basis. It takes awhile to get acclimated to the cars, but once you do, if you learn proper lines and racing techniques close racing is pretty easy. What I like about it is race craft definitely applies...setting up passes, defending position, and most importantly learning patience will get you far. Example: just last night I went from 10th (didn't qualify) to 3rd mostly by being patient and looking ahead. The bonus that I can drive on real tracks to me is huge, particularly when one of them (Summit) is one I will actually race on. If you buy a year subscription (and it comes with perks and discounts), the monthly cost winds up being only about $8. I get that much pleasure out of it in a weekend.

It gets expensive when you start buying additional content, though they did just lower the prices. The irritating part of this is you may want to buy a certain car, but it's series races on 6 additional tracks you don't have. So to compete in the whole series, you have to buy them all. (You can just buy the tracks you like and race on those during those weeks however). There are also license requirements (similar to Gran Turismo) and the 'safety rating' can be a frustrating thing to get up for advancement (particularly in the Legends crash-fest oval series). It mostly takes time.

Having had iRacing for a year or so, I don't have much interest playing any other sims. All the rest are too 'game'-ish for me. The only exception is rally games, because I do like the ability to slide the car around every so often. iRacing does require a pretty stout gaming computer and a wheel setup is essential (I do auto clutchless paddle shifting though).

If you want to practice looking ahead, Forza isn't really the game for you, unless you go for the multi-screen setup. But, for each screen you run it requires another xbox and copy of the game. Yes, you can look ahead some, but for looking past an apex to your exit you just have to learn the track and feel of the car to know where you are going to end up. One of the nice features they have introduced for Forza 3 is you can now rewind during a race or hot lapping session. This does give you a chance to play around with different lines and breaking points for a given corner without having to go around for another lap. It is a crutch though and don't get to rely on it for races 'cause you can't use it in multiplayer. I'm really liking Forza 3. The multiplayer was a bit better in 2 though. I think the lobby system was better, but with 3 there is more you can control for each race.

I used iRacing for the tracks I had never been too this year. VIR North Course, Lime Rock, and Watkins Glen were really helpful to drive on . Being able to get a very accurate sight picture before going to the track helped me get up to speed very quick.

With regard to rFactor... it needs a lot of setup and the menu interface is klunky. You install it and then immediately go to rfactorcentral.com and get a bunch of Hall of Fame tracks and cars as you like. You also need to install the Reel Feel plugin and you MUST have a decent force feedback wheel setup. All this is worth it because it has better graphics and online gameplay than GTR2 and is free to race with friends online. If you want organized action, NASA sim racing is cheap and plentiful without all the restrictions of iRacing.

The Historic GT mod is my favorite and I host a THU night race every week that I'm not traveling for work. If you are interested let me know and I'll try to get you all configured.

I have not tried iRacing because the cost was silly to me having an acceptable solution with rFactor. I might have to give it a try as they appear to be tossing around a lot of good offers. I am guessing they must have realized that the major obstacle is the pricing model not the technology. Although I get to race a pretty good virtual '74 911 RSR or any of 200 or so cars at any of 200 or more tracks that are pretty damn good, whenever I want, against whomever I invite, for free. They have a huge hill to climb to convince me I need to pay them for additional cars and tracks even if they did laser scan them.

I run a PC and PS3 because both accept my USB wheel. Not sure that the X-box will. My PC is nothing fancy and I built it probably 3 years ago, but it has enough juice to run R-Factor, GTR-2, GT Legends, etc. I ran iRacing on it for a while with no issues either. Any PC that you buy new today with a decent video card (512MB or greater - I think most are at least 1 GB if not 2 now-a-days) and 2-4 GB RAM ought to do the trick for these games.

Thanks all for the feedback (and keep them coming if you have something to add)!

As for the comment I made about looking ahead, that is just one example of where I need to improve myself. Obviously the other is just to improve my reflexes. From the sound of it so far, a PC based sim may be just fine for what I want, especially if I don't have to build a 'gaming' machine.

BTW. I've also got the PC and PS3 hooked up to a HD TV LCD set, so the TV technically does tripple duty as an HDTV/Home theater screen, PC monitor, and PS3 screen. The PS3 is also nice because it plays blue ray discs, increasing overall system functionality that much more. This makes for a nice all-around setup without having to have 2-3 different montiors, tv's etc. Most new HD LCD tv's will have at least two HDMI inputs. Use one for your HD Cable/satellite and one for your PS3/Xbox. They typically also include at least one vga type input for computer, as well as the standard component, composite, s-video, etc. video inputs.

I've considered picking up a smaller (25-27") HD LCD unit with HDMI and PC input to run my sim machine and PS3 separate, so that I can get my simulator rig out of the living room and please my wife (can't understand why she doesn't like it sitting in front of the fireplace . . .). Mounted just ahead of the steering wheel on an arm, this would provide an up close and in-your-face experience without shelling out big $$$ or taking up much space. It would also mean I could build a practically self contained setup that could be maneuvered into any location with relative ease.

pick up a used PS2 and GT4. this will be really cheap. If you like the way the way it feels, then go for a more exotic PC setup

well i have a PS3 with GT5P and a decent gaming computer with rfactor and a G25 wheel, so i can't say anything about iracing or forza (though i would like to try)

if you buy a PS3 new, you can't play GT4 on it. only the first ps3's had backwards compatability. however, used GT5prologues are for sale at game stop for pretty cheap, and GT5 comes out in like april or something. GT5p has online racing, but it can get choppy, and as for idiots who don't know how to race, once you beat certain in game races, you can enter in higher lever races online that don't allow the clots who suck at driving to participate- great stuff. only 60+ cars, 5 tracks (multiple set ups), no damage, and 'quick tune' (FAR lamer than tuning in other games) but its definitly fun for a long time. i would suggest that while you wait for GT5, which i am waiting for with great anticipation.

as for rFactor, i don't like the physics as much on some of the downloaded mods, and it definitely looks crappier than GT5 and Forza, but you can download mods for real cars adn tracks. which i like. especially the group b rally cars and classic touring cars. and damage is cool, and the AI is definitly better than GT4 (which was bumper cars, honestly)
i must say there are ahem less expensive ways of getting rfactor than any of the others, but if you are an honest, good human being then it's also pretty well priced, and all extras are free, unlike iracing (or so i understand, i've never used iracing but i SOO want to, unfortunately i'm in college, so i don't have the time to justify a monthly subscription that costs money i should be using for food)

so there's what i think. i LOVE gran turismo, rfactor is fun, but i'm personally very interested in iracing. and if you have some extra money (enough to buy a ps3) than you can get 2 years of subscription on iracing. which is cool and +1 on the ps3 is a blue ray player thing. its really great looking with HDMI on a 1080p tv

I've run Forza 1, GT4, iRacing, rFactor, GPL, GTL, GTR2, and I can pretty definitively say that as far as realism goes, iRacing has all others beat, hands down. it's VERY helpful if you're trying to learn a track that you will be racing at in real live soon, or in some cases if you're trying to get a feel for a particular type of car before you buy. (only really works for the Legends car and the Spec Racer Ford, though, unless you've got the $$$ for a Radical SR8 or a Pontiac-Riley Daytona Prototype or a Star Mazda) You do need a better-than-decent PC with if memory serves a dual core processor, as well as a nice racing wheel (Logitech G25 for me), but the upshot is that if you've got a PC that will handle iRacing, it'll handle just about any other racing game on the market.

rFactor can be incredibly fun at times, especially when you're running the Historic Touring/GT mod (think GTL cars, minus the TVRs, but with the physics engine of rFactor), and some of the other mods (World Sports Car Challenge 1970 springs to mind in short order, as well as the open wheel (basically Formula Skip Barber all the way up to F1, and a bunch of years for F1 also, all the way back to 1955, although that only has a Mercedes-Benz F1 car), can't leave out the Caterham mod, and the Legends mod is incredibly fun on road courses like Cadwell Park and Toban Raceway (one of the included circuits). there are some absolutely mediocre mods, though, and a few that are absolutely off-the-wall weird (sorta surprised that there isn't a Mario Cart mod out there, to be honest), you just need to be patient to find a mod you like. as far as tracks go, there are a TON of them, anything from street circuits to dirt ovals to fantasy circuits, some of which are quite good, some of which, well, aren't

Thanks everyone for this informative thread. There is a lot of good information here that I will be refering to in the future. It looks like I'll be shopping for a computer this month (closer to Thanksgiving when the sales hit).