Grassroots Railroad Sports?

Crazy to think it was built on May 29th, 1950. By that point Alco hadn't built a steam locomotive in 2 years, and the last ones had required farming out some of the work to Lima because Alco was going all-in on diesels. Baldwin had built their last US steam engines one year before (C&O #1309 was the last). And Lima had built their last, NKP #779, a year before. They were still trying to market a 4-8-6 with a double Belpaire boiler but would find no buyers, and would be absorbed into Baldwin in a year. And then N&W continued to build some Y6bs 2-8-8-2s later in 1950 and into.1952, as well as a bunch of 0-8-0s in 1953.

In reply to NickD :

I don't think I realized there were steam engines produced that late. Crazy 

In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :

The J class 4-8-4s, A Class 2-6-6-4s, and Y6b class 2-8-8-2s that Roanoke produced were probably the very finest steam locomotives ever built. Roller bearings throughout, and every ounce of knowledge the designers had went into the last great hurrah of steam. The Y6b 2-8-8-2s produced approximately 5,500 hp at the drawbar, and had higher tractive effort than the vaunted 4-8-8-4 Big Boy. N&W knew what they were doing when it came to steam power.

914Driver said:

Have you guys seen Great Scenic Railway Journeys? - - I believe PBS.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/MZXXv_gA77U?rel=0

 

I haven't, but he has some interesting journeys on his channel. 

In reply to NickD :

I find it fascinating that there are two restored and operational 4-8-4s that sit on opposite ends of the age spectrum. While 611 was the third to last 4-8-4 ever built for a US railroad, ATSF 3751 was one of the first, being built in 1927 as only the 13th engine of that type. 

In reply to Recon1342 :

Its too bad that none of Northern Pacific's 4-8-4s survived since they were the progenitors of the wheel arrangement. I know Timken #1111 "Four Aces"/Northern Pacific #2626 was thiiiissss close to being preserved. It was out of service in the dead lines, Timken wanted to buy it back to display, NP was willing to sell it, but by the time negotiations wrapped up it had already been scrapped.

A less flattering photo of #611. In '56, while hauling the Pocahontas, she was dumped on her side near the Tug River. Cause of the derailment was excessive speed around a curve. The dome still has a crease in it from the derailment, although that is concealed by the streamlining. The tender also had a big gouge down the side, although that was cleaned up during the 2014 restoration. 

Y'know, while we are on the subject of 4-8-4s, there are 4 preserved Reading T-1 class 4-8-4s in the country, all of which took part in the Iron Horse Rambles from 1959-1964. They are unique amongst the numerous preserved Northern-class locomotives, because they all started out as something completely different- The T-1s were all modified from the Reading's Class I10-sa 2-8-0 Consolidations. They lengthened the boiler by one foot, plopped it on some new running gear, and Presto, T-1 class 4-8-4! 

In reply to Recon1342 :

Two of the Reading T-hogs are returning to operation. #2102 at Reading & Northern is very close, and American Steam Railroad is plugging along on #2100.

There was actually extremely little of the I10sa Consols left in the rebuild to T-1s, basically just a single boiler course. There was a serial number stamped on each boiler by the Federal Bureau Of Locomotive Inspections, a regulatory arm the ICC, when each boiler was constructed. That number could not be removed or altered, but no matter how extensively the boiler was modified, as long as that number was intact, it was considered valid. There was a substantial sales tax saving in reusing an older boiler over having a new one built and stamped by the FBoLI. So Reading basically just used the boiler course with the serial number and replaced everything else. They did the same thing when they rebuilt N1 2-8-8-2s into K1-sa 2-10-2s, and Frisco did it as well when they converted their old "spot series" 2-10-2s to the 4300-series Heavy Mountains. I'm not innately familiar with Illinois Centrals many, many rebuilds, but I'm sure they did something similar on one of them.

In reply to NickD :

Well, if you were gonna turn a Connie into a northern, you'd want to use an I10 to do it. Those things were beefy...

In reply to Recon1342 :

I think it may have been a trick to get around the War Production Board. The WPB didn't allow construction of new engine designs, they had to be a Proven existing design. But by doing an in-house rebuild, you had control over the design because it technically wasn't a new engine.

Missouri Pacific did something similar when they rebuilt their 63" driver Berkshires into 75" driver Northerns in the beginning of the war. The rebuild Involved "practically complete boilers were constructed at the Sedalia shops ...". In addition, "new General Steel Castings cast-steel bed frames with integral cylinders were applied, also new and larger driving wheels, roller bearings, new valve gear and rods, and larger tenders installed." Sure sounds like a lot of the Berkshire was tossed out. MoPac called the completed Northerns the "Victory Class" as a nod to the war effort. Coincidentally, they also used the same 2100 number block as Reading's T-1s

NickD said:

The PRR J1 Texas-types were both heavier and larger than an N&W J 4-8-4, at 984,100lbs and 104.04 feet, but there isn't one at the RRMoPA. Or anywhere for that matter, unless you believe the urban legend that there is one buried in Norfolk Southern's ex-PRR Pitcairn yard. I've never seen anyone give any sort of details to that story to where I would place any stock in that.

So, I was really curious about this one and did some digging on this story. 

The first question is, why #6435 specifically? Usually when you hear one of these style stories its just "there's an abandoned warehouse with a NYC Hudson" or "there's a PRR 0-8-0 in the bottom of a quarry". Its unusual to hear a specific engine number stated. The reason why the rumor is #6435 and not just "a PRR J1" is that there is no record of PRR #6435 being sold off or scrapped on-site by the PRR itself. All the archived PRR paperwork shows that the other J1s have their exact disposition and date of disposal recorded, but #6435 is left blank. I would say its likely just a clerical error, but some assume that it means that #6435 was not scrapped or sold for scrap.

Now, why buried in Pitcairn yard? Pitcairn was a staging area for the scrapping of steam locomotives in the late '50s (there are photos of an M1b Mountain there in '59) and there was an underpass/duckunder under the Eastbound hump. The theory is that this J1 was in the yard waiting for scrap and the PRR decided to use it as fill while constructing the duckunder. The yard was reconfigured to an intermodal yard in the 1990s and had the humps dug down, but that area of the yard was not touched during reconstruction, and so there are those that believe #6435 lies buried there. 

Without a conclusive magnetometer or ground-penetrating radar readout, I'm not going to buy in. Steam locomotives went for big money as scrap, and the J1s were about as big as they came on the PRR, and it seems like the PRR would rather buy fill dirt than bury an entire J1 and lose out on all that scrap money. Granted, there is a precedence for this sort of stuff, so its not completely out of the realm of possibility. White Pass & Yukon derailed some old steam locomotives into a river to use as rip-rap to shore up a riverbank, and ATSF sank three Prairies and a Mikado into the Kiowa River trying to save the bridge during the 1951 flood (ATSF crews actually had crews torch off parts of one of the Prairies years later when the river level dropped and they became a navigational hazard). 

Like I said, until I saw solid evidence, I would be inclined to believe that #6435's unrecorded fate is just a clerical error. Now much more believable is that there were three J1s in Columbus as late as 1960 and one of them was supposed to go to the Northumberland Collection for later donation. They tried to move the engine out of the yard and it derailed three separate times and the irritated crews torched it on the spot rather than continue futzing with it.

Dual front axles?

In reply to 914Driver :

That is unusual. Extra stability at high speeds? 

An NYO&W "Orrie", the nickname for their Cooke-built 2-8-0 Camelbacks, rounds the trestle at Hawk Mountain (often misspelled Hawk's Mountain). The mountain was heavily deforested for the production of wood acid in the '20s-'50s, but now there is little trace of both the wood acid industry or the NYO&W left.

NYO&W "Light 400" #405 at Winterton, NY with the Mountaineer Limited. #405 was given streamlined skirts and painted maroon with orange pinstriping , as were a set of heavyweight Osgood-Bradley coaches. It was a summer-only train from Weehawken to Roscoe.

In reply to NickD :

Smoother ride?

In reply to 914Driver :

I'm thinking that might be it. Single axle rode poorly so they went to a pair of span-bolstered axles. Or maybe they had issues with a rigid front end climbing the flange on curves and went to some sort of swivel truck?

An NYO&W "Light 400" Class Y Mountain departing Summitville with a 28 car freight train.

The NYO&W was found of nicknames for their various classes of locomotives, to a level that I'm not aware of on any other railroad.

A Class E single-cab 4-6-0 was called a "Teakettle" for their easy steaming characteristics.

A Class S Cooke-built Center Cab (NYO&W's term for a Camelback) 2-8-0 was called an "Orrie". I've never seen an exact reason for this name, possibly lost to time.

A Class P Center Cab 2-8-0 was called a "Dickson Hog", due to their construction by Dickson Locomotive Works.

A Class W/W-2 single-cab 2-8-0 was called a "Long John" due to them having the longest boiler unbroken by a center cab at the time.

The Class X 2-10-2s were called a "Bullmoose", in reference to their size and power. Crews had other less-polite names for these poorly-liked engines.

The Class Y Mountains were called "Light 400s" (The 400 was their number block), although they obviously didn't gain this nickname until the arrival of the later Y-2 Mountains. 

If the smaller Class Y 4-8-2s were a "Light 400", then the bigger NYC L-2 Mohawk-based Class Y-2 must be a "Heavy 400", right? Nope, they were a "Big 400".

The NYO&W also had a reputation as a tinkerer. Rather than buy new engines, they frequently overhauled and upgraded old ones. A single air pump would be joined by a second (they preferred two single-stage compressors to one two-stage, even going as far as removing a cross-compound pump for two single-stage pump on the sole D&H 2-8-0 they purchased), an additional air reservoir would be tucked under the running boards or atop the boiler, extra sand domes sprouted from the boiler, wooden or boiler-tube pilots were replaced with footboards, kerosene lighting was replaced with carbide lamps and then Pyle National electric lamps and finally Sunbeam electric headlamps, Stephenson valve gear was swapped with Baker valve gear, tenders were repeatedly reconfigured and swapped between classes, valve pilots were installed and removed and swapped to other engines, superheating and piston valves were added to old saturated-steam locomotives with D-valves. They toyed around with multiple variations of smoke stacks and exhaust nozzles chasing better draft, performance and fuel consumption. They even rebuilt a batch of 2-6-0 Center Cabs into 4-6-0 Center Cabs.

All these changes were made "as shopped", so locomotives weren't pulled out of service for this kind of work. Instead, as they ran through the shop, they would be reconfigured at leisure and in a sort of haphazard manner. This meant you ended up with some real oddball configurations, like two air compressors but one reservoir, or two reservoirs but one pump, or electric headlamps with kerosene marker lamps. Their early motive power was in a constant state of change and no two members of the class were simultaneously configured the same.

Reading #2101, in her Chessie Steam Special guise, exits the Graham Tunnel and crosses the Potomac on the old Baltimore & Ohio Magnolia Cutoff on the Cumberland Subdivision.

The Chessie Steam Special makeover for Reading #2101 showed the difference ust a few small changes could make. I wouldn't call a Reading T-hog ugly, but they were a bit cosmetically challenged. Painted all in black, with the headlight just above the center of the smokebox and with that big Wooten firebox, they were aesthetically clumsy. Certainly no Frisco 4500 or CB&Q O-5-a.

But center up the headlight, paint the smokebox with graphite and add the Chessie Systems scheme over the running boards and tender, and suddenly its a much better looking engine.

The Reading T-1s were the masters of disguise throughout the '60s and '70s. As operated by Reading in the '40s and '50s, they were an austere all-black, with the only splash of color being the yellow border and numbering on the cab and the yellow outline and lettering on the tender. When Reading overhauled #2100, #2101, #2102 and #2124 for the Iron Horse Rambles, they added yellow to the handrails, footboards and running board skirts, painted the tires white, and added silver to the cylinder head caps.

Then in 1973, for the Delaware & Hudson's 150th anniversary, Reading #2102 was given a new smokebox door with a recessed headlamps, a pair of elephant ear smoke deflectors, and the weird D&H marker lamps and relettered as Delaware & Hudson #302. It was a surprisingly accurate facsimile of a D&H Northern. Steamtown's CP #1278 was given a much-less convincing makeover as D&H #653.

In 1975, in a mad last-minute scramble, Reading #2101 was pulled from the junkyard where she and #2100 had been sitting for the past 10+ years and was given a  30-day overhaul to get her ready for the eastern leg of the American Freedom Train, since it was discovered that SP #4449 would not fit eastern clearances.

After the AFT was completed, Ross Rowland then struck up a deal with Chessie Systems to use #2101 on their rails as the Chessie Steam Special in '77 and the Chessie Safety Special in '78, until it was damaged in the Silver Grove roundhouse fire in early '79 and swapped for C&O #614. 

After that #2101 was restored back to the American Freedom Train #1 scheme and placed in the B&O Railroad Museum where it sits in a much-deteriorated state today.

I have to say, while I think Reading steam power was lacking in aesthetic (The G3 Pacifics were shockingly hideous) and their later green and yellow road switchers were garish, their diesel cab units were always very good-looking. Largely black with a green waist stripe and a yellow border and detailing.

Southern Pacific "fire train" #2248. Southern Pacific repurposed a trio of old Ten-Wheelers for fire fighting usage in the Sierra Nevadas, both to prevent forest fires and the wooden snowsheds from catching fire. They were outfitted with a Duplex pump that could deliver 300 gallons of water per hour and towed several tank cars full of water, as well as carrying ladders and axes. During the summer, the fire trains were kept hot at all times and were always staffed by crews so that they could respond to a fire immediately. One of the engines, #2252, even was equipped with a siren.

Ol' #2248 here actually still exists, although stripped of the fire gear. After retirement in the '50s, Walt Disney supposedly looked at buying it, but that never came to fruition. It ended up on Texas State Railroad in 1976, then was sold in 1993 for being too light, then went to the Fort Worth & Western, and now resides at Grapevine Scenic Railroad. It suffered a catastrophic fireman's side cylinder failure due to the wrist pin falling out. The cylinder was welded back together, bored out and sleeved. The engine was only run a few times before suffering a second failure to the same cylinder in that it apparently blew out the front cylinder head. I do not know if the locomotive has run again after that.