Grassroots Railroad Sports?

After the attempt to lease the #1401 was rebuffed, Southern instead leased #4501 from '66 to '94. The #4501 had been built in 1911 as the very first Mikado for the Southern, then had been retired in '48 and sold to the Kentucky & Tennessee Railroad, who operated it until 1963 as their #12. When it was retired, it was purchased by a railfan who restored it, and then in '66, the Southern leased it, dolled it up in Southern passenger colors and used it as their primary power. After her retirement by Norfolk Southern in 1994, she returned to the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum and continues to operate, although now in regular black paint.

Needing additional locomotives, in 1967 the Southern traded some used Alco RS-3s to the Eastern Tennessee & Western North Carolina Railroad (nicknamed The Tweetsie) for a pair of older 2-8-0 Consolidations, numbers 630 and 722, that the Southern had sold them in 1952. The #630 was operated from 1968 to 1978, as well as non-Southern sponsored trips at the TVRM through 1989. It was then parked for 10 years, restored in 1999 and ran in Norfolk Southern's 21st Century Steam program before returning to the TVRM where it is still operated.

The #722 was also operated through to 1980, before Southern sent it to the TVRM as well, to make room for larger locomotives, such as C&O #2716, Texas & Pacific #610 and CP #2839. Like #4501, the #722 was also dolled up in Sylvan Green with gold striping and white details. It eventually made its way to the Great Smokey Mountain Railroad, who tore it down for an overhaul. It now sits outside, disassembled, with a very uncertain future.

A key part of the Southern's steam program, Savannah & Atlanta #750 was odd in that she had no Southern heritage. The program was relying on three slower freight locomotives and Southern wanted a passenger locomotive capable of higher speeds, but the #1401 was inaccesible. So they leased the 4-6-2, originally built for the Florida East Coast and then later sold to the S&A, from 1967 to 1984. After that, it would be leased to a company trying to run tourist operations in Atlanta, until that folded up, and it now sits at the Southeastern Railway Museum in Duluth, GA.

The redheaded stepchild amongst the Southern operations was when, from 1979-1980, they leased Canadian Pacific "Royal Hudson" #2839. Geographically, it did not make a whole lot of sense to have the Canadian 4-6-4 running around Tennessee and Virginia. It was found to be not powerful enough, at which point they let the lease go. It briefly ended up on the Reading, Blue Mountain & Northern, who attempted to restore and operate it, but never did. It has since moved to California to be on display. During her Southern career, the #2839 did make a movie appearance in The Coal Miner's Daughter, hilariously shown switching coal cars in a yard.

Kentucky & Tennessee #10 barely counts. In 1965, the Southern leased the 1920-built Mikado, renumbered and relettered it to Southern #6910, and planned to run Chattanooga-to-Cleveland TN excursions. But on the first trip, it was found to have a number of leaky flues and had to be limped to Cleveland. The Southern canceled the second trip, towed the locomotive dead back to Chattanooga and then sent it back to to the TVRM. It sits in cold storage behind US Army #610 these days, missing several parts, although the museum has expressed interest in dressing it up as a Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis 2-8-2

Thanks for all of this NickD, I'm really enjoying everything you're posting.

Almost joining the Southern operation was Atlanta & West Point #290. Dismayed at being unable to reacquire the #1401, Southern looked at A&WP #290, a heavy Pacific built for the A&WP by Lima (a bit unusual in that Lima never built many Pacifics). The #290 was mechanically and cosmetically similar to a Southern Ps-4 and the #290 had been donated to Atlanta for display. Southern was eyeballing the engine, with plans to restore it and convert it to a Ps-4 by painting it green. (This is presumably before the acquisition of the S&A #750) The A&WP was understandably not pleased with the idea of it's only surviving steam engine being converted to do PR work for a competitor, and many fans argued that destroying the history of the last A&WP steam engine to make an inaccurate facsimile of a different engine was a bad move. The A&WP sued the Southern and won, and ownership of the A&WP #290 was transferred from the City of Atlanta to the Atlanta NRHS Chapter. Canadian National #5288 was rumored to also be eyed for a similar conversion, but never pursued, perhaps out of fear of another lawsuit or backlash.

A&WP #290 would get a chance of her own, when in 1986 a restoration was undertaken to restore her to operation on the New Georgia Railroad, the same operation that Savannah & Atlanta #750 was operating on, along with a Central of Georgia-painted E8A. The #290 was given a bit of a botched restoration, as detailed by the chief mechanical officer of the Southeastern Railway Museum, which is her current caretaker.
 

"I wasn't there either, but here's what we've gleaned from those who were around the engine at various times throughout the restoration and eventual operation. At some point (or in multiple incidents) during her career on the A&WP, 290 was badly wrecked. The frame sustained quite a bit of damage and was repaired, though it remained twisted, to some extent. The railroad compensated for this with quite a few shims in amongst the shoes and wedges. We'll get back to the shims in a moment. Jump ahead to early 1986. The contract to restore the engine was awarded to J.J. Finnegan (Atlanta RailCar) at Duluth. Finnegan was located at the current site of the SRM. It was here that the (in)famous laser tramming job was done. The aforementioned shims, along with the shoes and wedges, were dropped on the shop floor, then stacked in the corner without having their previous location noted. Given the tram issues on the engine, this might have been helpful. I have no idea what was done as far as laser tramming the locomotive, in fact I haven't read the article. What I do know is that the locomotive ran hot within about 5 or 10 miles, being towed dead to the New Georgia shop after Finnegan went out-of-business about a quarter of the way into the restoration.

The drivers were removed and turned after her return to the SRM, and the uneven wear caused by the boxes running cockeyed in the frame prior to the aforementioned work was corrected. In spite of the fact that the engine was running well when last parked and could probably make a few more miles on her current running gear with minor repairs, the long-term cure would be to true the pedestals and lay off new shoes and wedges. I don't recall the overall condition of the boxes themselves, but at least two are off of an A&WP 2-8-2 and smaller than others."

Returning to service in 1989, the combination of a botched restoration and decades-old collision damage caused the #290 to have frequent main axle bearing troubles. Others also recount her inaugural trip from Macon, as well as several others, being fouled by a trailing truck running hot. Another mentions a trip to Jacksonville, where bearing troubles and a failed mechanical coal stoker led to CSX towing her home. Around 1991, the head of the now-ended Southern steam program took the #290 to the Irondale, AL shops where Southern had run their program out of, went through the #290 and solved the bearing issues. The #290 returned to Georgia capable of sustained high-speed running.

And then, frustratingly, a year later the New Georgia pulled the plug on steam operations, due to operating and insurance costs.

Archaeologists working at the site of Birmingham’s main HS2 station have uncovered the remains of what is believed to be the world’s oldest railway roundhouse, on the site of the original Curzon Street station, which opened in the 1830s and closed down in the 1960s, during “trial trenching” at the site.

Also worth noting that, after her Irondale overhaul but before her unceremonious retirement, the A&WP #290 made a silver screen appearance. Yep, it was the locomotive that ran Chris O'Donnel over in Fried Green Tomatoes. 

A member of the Southeastern Railway Museum also recounted that a sequel film was in the works and there was the possibility of A&WP #290 making another appearance, but the film was cancelled in the wake of Jessica Tandy's death. The same employee also recounted another film company approaching the SERM about using the #290 in a film. At this point, it's FRA certifications had expired and it would require new flues. The film executive didn't bat an eye at the price and was okay with funding flue replacement, but then asked how long it would take. When the museum curator replied that, with 6 guys working on it, it would be 3 to 4 months, the executive said that wouldn't work, they needed it in a month. The lead time on flue material was 6 weeks, so there was no way that was happening. Unfortunately he could not remember the name of the film, so no clue if the film used another locomotive or if it was even produced at all.

The #290 did try to make it to the 1994 NRHS convention in Atlanta, but never did, due to repairs that never materialized. And then Norfolk Southern shut down their steam program. The #290 has since been at SERM, receiving some running gear repairs in the early 2000s and currently undergoing a long-running cosmetic restoration. Sadly, these plans do not involve an eventual return to operation, as the SERM has insufficient room to operate a heavy, high-speed Pacific, and CSX and NS's attitudes towards steam excursions, plus PTC requirements, don't make it feasible for over-the-road trips.

Some other distinguished guests in the Southern program.

"Southern" #2716. Really Chesapeake & Ohio #2716, a Lima-built Berkshire, Southern leased it from the Kentucky Railway Museum from '81-'82. The #2716 had been partially restored during an aborted steam program by Clinchfield Railroad. So, in need of a faster and more powerful locomotive, the Southern sent it to Irondale to have the restoration finished, as well as giving it an appearance as if Southern had purchased any Berkshires. This included relocating the headlight from the pilot to the smokebox doors, brass flag holders, mounting the bell over the smokebox, and painting it black with gold pinstriping and a red cab roof, as well as applying the round Southern emblem to the air pump covers. The Southern would only operate the #2716 for a few months before an inexperienced fireman cracked the firebox. It was parked, while Southern leased sister Lima Berkshire, Nickel Plate #765, and welding on the firebox was attempted but failed. After the Norfolk Southern merger, the #2716 was retired in favor of N&W #611 as the primary steam power and would go back to Kentucky. It had a short-lived return from '95-'96, when the owners of Nickel Plate #765 would return it to service in original C&O appearance but when the FRA told them to either replace the flues in #2716 or overhaul #765, they chose the latter. These days, #2716 is in the midst of another overhaul, with hopes to put her back in service. CSX seems to be playing awful nice with the restoration efforts, leading some to wonder if CSX is going to use it for much-needed PR work.

Personally, I prefer the above Southern guise to its original C&O appearance below. I also find it odd that Southern used a C&O engine, because C&O became Chessie Systems which then became CSX, the Southern/Norfolk & Western/Norfolk Southern's big eastern competitor. Especially odd, when you consider that there were several Nickel Plate Berkshires (Nickel Plate became absorbed by N&W) in solid conditions littering the east coast (#759 at Steamtown had been run from '68-'77)

You'd be seemingly hard-pressed to name a place in the east where Nickel Plate #765 has not operated. She's a traveling gal and has turned a lot of miles in excursion service. After the #2716 firebox snafu, Southern leased the #765 from the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society. The #765 would also kick around for a while after the Norfolk Southern merger. This also meant that 2 out of the 3 Van Sweringen lines Berkshires operated under the Southern. All they needed to do was lease the Pere Marquette #1225 and they'd have had the full hat trick.

A favorite of mine, from '77 to '81, they leased Texas & Pacific #610. The T&P 600-series were the reason a 2-10-4 was named a Texas type. They were an excellent dual-service locomotive built by Lima. At home hauling long strings of freight, they could step in and move passengers at 60mph when their Pacifics and Mountains were overburdened by longer trains. Restored to operation in '76 for the American Freedom Train, it was then leased by the Southern for 5 years, where it was relettered to Southern #610. After 4 years of usage at higher speeds, the running gear was pretty used up, and the Norfolk Southern merger was consolidating the excursion program down to just a few locomotives. So the #610 steamed back west to the Texas State Railroad, where it remains on static display, unlikely to operate again in the near future. Texas State's rails are too light for the big Texas and supposedly when they tried to turn it on their wye, it derailed at least twice. And Union Pacific remains unwelcoming to "foreign" locomotives, that is engines that weren't owned and operated by Union Pacific itself. 

#610 doubleheading with another locomotive on a Southern excursion. Perhaps the #4501?

#610 on another doubleheader. I imagine that using two locomotives was more for spectacle than anything. The #610 shouldn't have needed much help

T&P #610 in her American Freedom Train days. It was pretty funny that Texas insisted that when it went through Texas it had to be behind a Texan locomotive. Don Ball Jr., who has written a number of terrific book and was in charge of Steamtown before it became a national park, was part of the restoration effort. He admits part of it was a bit personal, because he never got down to see the T&P 600s run in their glory days.

Southern Pacific Gs-4 #4449 hauled the western half of the AFT. This was when the #4449 was first restored to operation, and 40+ years later she's still hauling excursions. After the American Freedom Train was through, she was returned to original SP Daylight colors

Reading T-1 #2100 hauled the eastern half, although it was renumber and relettered to AFT #1. 

East Broad Top has started moving locomotives outdoors and steam-cleaning them to figure out which ones are the best candidates to prepare for next year's return to operations. None of these engine have seen daylight since 2011, some even longer, and two of them have not operated since the railroad closed down as a freight hauler in 1956.

I'm curious to see which locomotives the EBT's new owners revive. Their final six steam locomotives, all 2-8-2 Mikados, are still on the property. They are typically grouped into two classifications: the Small Mikados (#12, #14 and #15) and the Big Mikados (#16, #17 and #18). Technically, there is really three classes though.

The #12, built by Baldwin in 1911, was unique and smaller and lighter than the #14 and #15 (There was no #13, for superstitious reasons). The #12, later nicknamed Millie when the EBT was revived as a tourist line in 1960, was only 172,000 pounds with 17"x24" cylinders, 110 square foot firebox and made 22,100lbs of tractive effort. It was rated for pulling 15 cars of iron ore. It did share the same overall length (48.87 feet), driving wheel diameter (49"),  and Walschaerts valve gear as the #14 and #15 though, making it essentially the blueprint for those engines. This locomotive was operated during its tourist years, but was retired sometime before the line closed in 2011. I can't find the last time they used it, but I did find an old RYPN thread where someone in 2004 was asking what the plans were for the #12 and someone in the know said it was unlikely to be returned to service because it was "the proverbial basket case." So, it was retired sometime before 2004. On paper, the #12 is a nice engine because it's smaller and lighter, makes it easier on fuel and trackbed, and would be useful on days with low passenger count. But if its in as bad of shape as people said and has been sitting for likely 20 years, seems unlikely.

In 1912, Baldwin built the two follow-up locomotives, the #14 and #15.  These two weighed considerably more at 230,000lbs. They had larger 19"x24" cylinders. The firebox was now 131 square feet. Their tenders had a larger capacity. And they generated 27,610 pounds of tractive effort. And EBT rated them for pulling 18 loaded cars. Interestingly, Baldwin says that parts were interchangeable with the #12, but seeing as how every part on these engines was larger, that seems unlikely. The #14 and #15 were the 1960-iteration of the railroad's primary power, swapping on and off over the years, as the railroad would take one down for maintenance and run the other and then swap them. The #15 was the last running engine when the line closed in 2011, with the #14 having had a lot of her best parts swapped over to keep the #15 running. Seeing as how the #15 was the most recently operated, my guess is she'll be the one returned to operation, although they might go for both #14 and #15. These engines were liked for having more power but not being as heavy as #16-18.

The #16, #17 and #18 were the last three steam engines purchased by the EBT in 1916. Also built by Baldwin, these weighed 163,000lbs, were 6 feet longer at 54 feet, had 20"x24" cylinders, 141 square foot firebox, and cranked out 30,600lbs of tractive effort and reportedly pulled 60 cars at one point. While they kept the same driver diameter and boiler pressure, they were also superheated, which made them more powerful. And oddly, they used rarely-seen Southern valve gear. While #17 saw excursion duty, it was parked sometime in the 1990s. #16 and #18 have not been operated since 1956. In fact, #16 was supposed to pull the last few trains in 1956, but then developed leaky flues that had #17 take over for the end of operations. As a tourist operation, the Big Mikados were less preferred because they were heavier, harder on the track, hungrier for fuel, and had higher maintenance requirements. I would put good money on either #16 or #18 getting returned to service next year, as they have much less use than the rest, so theoretically they need less running gear work. 

So, my guess is #14, #15 and either #16 or #18 with maybe long-term plans to return the #12 to operation. 

I can't even imagine working on one of these, let alone restoring one to usable condition.  Amazing.

In reply to noddaz :

Especially when you consider that a lot of the people who originally built and maintained them are no longer alive, or at least not in a capacity to help. All of the big locomotive builders are gone. Most of the shops and tools are gone. Even a lot of the companies that supplied parts are gone or have moved on to other ventures. And then you have to factor in that a lot of engines were pretty worn out when they were retired, then have sat out in the elements for 50+ years. And then you have to take into account how strict the FRA guidelines are now.

Back in the '60s and '70s, the rules were much more lax (no 1472s, for example) and the locomotives were not quite as old and had less time to deteriorate. Plus a lot of the Class Is hadn't torn down their steam locomotive shops and still had employees who knew how to work on them. Reading about some of the excursion efforts back then, basically they went to a museum, grabbed a locomotive that suited their needs, filled the boiler up and hoped it didn't leak water from every seam and then put it into service. I have heard where in some cases, locomotives that ran '60s/'70s/'80s excursion operations are viewed as less desirable and more expensive to restore than engines parked since the '50s and '60s, simply because those programs were so slapdash and there were no mandatory teardowns, so they ran them until they used them up and some serious mechanical failure sidelined it, and then parked them. They now need much more work than an engine that has sat for 70 years.

I have heard of some parts for modern restorations coming from some odd sources. Strasburg Railroad says they work closely with an Amish foundry in Pennsylvania to get parts like wheels and cylinders cast. Makes sense because the Amish use a lot of old equipment that parts aren't available for any more. Another interesting one is that, for the PRR #1361 restoration, they want to convert all the axle bearings to roller bearings. Turned out that PRR had a study done for a conversion back in the '40s by Timken that PRR never implemented, and Timken still has those blueprints in their archive, so they are using those blueprints and having Timken make the bearings they designed back then. But then, there is stuff like where two of Texas State Railroad's locomotives needed new boilers because the state wouldn't authorize repairs, but instead wanted new boilers made (for liability reasons, which I understand). The state went to an industrial boiler manufacturer, because a boiler is a boiler, right? Well, no. An industrial boiler is much too rigid for railroad use, so the boiler for TSRR #500 (ex-ATSF #1316) was never installed because it would have cracked. TSRR #300's boiler was made by the same place and they made it of a slightly thinner material, but still too thick and rigid, and after a short time of usage, the boiler developed all sorts of cracks.

State Fairs Used To Smash Locomotives Into Each Other For Fun

johndej said:

State Fairs Used To Smash Locomotives Into Each Other For Fun

I think that is right up there with wing-walking and putting your head in the lion's mouth in the category of "Forms of entertainment we shouldn't do"

I'm not sure if that's a real photo or what, but it looks like that thing was just parked and abandoned.

In reply to Brett_Murphy :

Pretty sure that's real. It's Russian (the big star on the smokebox is a giveaway) and they have huge locomotive graveyards. There are quite a few scattered through Europe. I've seen photos of one in France, where its just rows and rows of diesel and electric locomotives parked in an old station that trees have surrounded.

johndej said:

State Fairs Used To Smash Locomotives Into Each Other For Fun

In the late-'50s through to the late-'60s, the US Air Force bought a couple of steam locomotives and shot them up with planes to test targeting systems for the Vietnam War. The Vietnamese still used steam locomotives and the Air Force was having a terrible time targeting and hitting them.

Lake Superior & Ishpeming #32, a big 2-8-0, was sold to the Air Force in 1966 and hauled down from the Marquette & Mount Huron tourist railroad (who had bought a huge number of LS&I 2-8-0s after the LS&I dieselized) to Eglin Air Force Base. Yes, the locomotive was saved from being scrapped, only to be bought by the Air Force and shipped from Michigan to Florida to be destroyed.  There is a photo of it being hauled south by what look like Chicago & Northwestern-owned Fairbanks-Morses in the summer of '66.

There is also a photo of it, rigged up with antennas for a remote control system that the Air Force installed so that they could run it back and forth on a test track

Someone who got a tour of Eglin in 1980 said they were shown a photo of the poor LS&I #32 being inundated with missiles.. The person telling the story said he made a slide copy of the photo but can no longer find it. It is considered to be no longer existent, although some choose to believe that parts of it are tucked away somewhere on the base. My guess is, it most likely got cut up afterwards. I can't see the Air Force hanging onto the remains of a locomotive from 50+ years ago. Not like there was anything classified about an LS&I Consolidation.

Eglin also had a second locomotive on hand during these tests. Makes sense, because you wouldn't want a lucky strike permanently crippling the only locomotive if you are trying to develop a targeting system. A photo of this locomotive with severe damage showed up in a 1971 copy of Train. It's exact heritage is unknown, but the photo caption lists it as wearing both C&O and B&O lettering under the paint. Someone theorizes that it was a Sandy Valley & Elkhorn locomotive, which was a B&O subsidiary line that was then purchased by the C&O later on.

There is also references to a third 2-8-0, simply referred to as the Eglin Queen. Now, its often cited as being LS&I #32 but also the Eglin Queen is stated to have been onsite at Eglin in the 1950s, retired from usage on the base in 1959 and then reactivated for this weapons program and bombarded in '67. That means it can't be LS&I #32, because #32 was on the Marquette & Huron Mountain until 1966. Chronologically impossible for it to have been at Eglin before then. Whatever the Eglin Queen's heritage was, its impossible to know anymore, as it is long gone and there are no photos of this engine.

Nick, funny to see you posting about the 4501. I watched "And Then There Was One" last night. It's about an hour and a half long, but fairly interesting.

Youtube has been pulling that up. I've been meaning to watch it. Also, interesting in that the Southern excursion program and the military anecdote I told all tie in together in a weird way. Southern #4501 was Kentucky & Tennessee #12. K&T had two other steam locomotives, both Mikados, the #10 and the #11. Now, the #10, as I said in the earlier post, went to the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum, then was leased by Southern for excursions and renumbered to the #6910 and made part of one excursion before discovering it was in poor mechanical condition and was parked. Now, that leaves one other locomotive, the #11. The #11 was sold to the military who shipped it up to the Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland and used it for positioning around large targets for the artillery crews doing target practice. Sometime in the 1960s, the #11 was reported as being "accidentally" destroyed during practice, the consensus being that it was probably not so accidental.

While Eglin and Aberdeen were busy blowing up steam locomotives, Fort Eustis was busy teaching members of the US Army Transportation Corp how to use them. As late as 1967, the USATC kept a small collection of USATC S-160 2-8-0s and S-115 0-6-0s on site as training equipment. The thought was that between the heightening Cold War and the Vietnam War, the US was concerned about a large scale land war in Europe or an invasion into China. While the USATC had EMD and Alco cranking out diesel road switchers that could be shipped over (called an MRS-1) both locations still relied heavily on steam locomotives and the US Army might be forced to commandeer them, so they needed to train service members how to operate them.

The USATC locomotives were all kind of strange-looking equipment. The S-100s and S-200s, for example, were very European looking, while the S-160s and S-115s were almost American in appearance but with strange proportions. The S-160s, like Alaskan Railroad #557 (who bought it surplus after WWII) had a high boiler perched entirely over the drivers, with an off-center smokebox door, off-center air pump on the pilot and headlight over the boiler, which gave them a hunchback appearance.

Meanwhile, the S-115 0-6-0s had a tremendously long front overhang that made them look like they were a 2-6-0 that had their pilot truck cut off. According to some, the USATC designed it that way so that while its primary intended usage was as a switcher, if a line required a lighter locomotive, there was a kit to convert it into a Mogul. Supposedly some secondhand owners did just that.

That 0-6-0 looks incredibly tippy!