Grassroots Railroad Sports?

Recon1342 said:

In reply to NickD :

It's always fascinating to see what different branch lines did with motive power...

In this case, you also have loggers involved. In my many experiences with them, they will cut, chop, weld and cobble machinery into whatever configuration serves their purpose. My grandfather has a Caterpillar Model 30 bulldozer that someone swapped a '40s GMC school bus nose and engine onto, as well as a Caterpillar D4 that someone cut into quarters and lengthened and widened, as well as converting it to use CleTrac tracks, installing a second transmission behind the first to act as a gear splitter and modifying a D6 blade to fit.

Timber Heritage Association has a diesel-converted Heisler that originally came from US Plywood Corporation. You can see where they reused the frame, trucks, cab and tender (converted to a fuel tank) and then added the new front hood. Supposedly when THA aqcuired it from Alton Pacific in the '80s it did run and move. Not sure if that's the case anymore.

Along with the usual geared steam locomotives used in the US (Shay, Heisler, Climax) there was a fourth that was kind of confusing. It was known as a Willamette.

Looks like a Shay, right? After some of Ephraim Shay's key patents for his geared steam locomotive design expired in 1921, it became possible for other companies to begin churning out Shay clones. So, in the 1921, Willamette Iron & Steel Works of Portland, Oregon managed to hire away Lima's chief engineer and began producing Shays for PNW logging operations. At the request of loggers, who had certain faults with the design, Willamette took the Shay template and made some small improvements that really perfected the design. All Willamettes were superheated, where Shays typically were not, and had welded boiler sheets, where Shay's were typically bolted. The Willamette used Walschaerts valve gear, which was easier to work on, versus the Stephenson valve gear of Shays. The trucks were completely redesigned and provided a much better ride.

The easiest way to visually distinguish a Willamette from a Shay was the cylinders. On a Shay, the front two cylinders had their valve chests facing towards the front of the engine, while the rear cylinder had it's valve chest facing the other direction. The rear cylinder was also located so that it cut into the front corner of the cab.

On a Willamette, all the cylinders had their valve chests facing the same direction, outwards away from the boiler, making all of the cylinders completely interchangeable. Also the cylinders were located slightly farther forward so that the rear cylinder was clear of the cab.

The resulting improvements made for a locomotive that rode better, was easier to work on, was  more fuel efficient and had better pulling power. Lima, who was the primary manufacturer of Shays, took note and in 1927 began to offer a Willamette-style engine, which Lima called a "Pacific Coast Shay" alongside of their traditional Shays. Willamette Iron & Steel would ultimately only make 33 of their Willamette engines before going out of the locomotive business in 1928, and Lima would only build 24 of their Pacific Coast Shay. The logging industry was hit by a depression in 1922 that would continue into the Great Depression, slowing the sales of geared locomotives, and after WWII, trucks began to take over the logging industry from railroads.

There are seven preserved Willamettes but the only operational one was the #2, also the last built Willamette, at Mount Rainier Railroad and Logging Museum. Sadly, Mount Rainier closed its doors in May of this year and is trying to find a buyer for the entire operation.

In reply to NickD :

Heisler actually made 1 diesel electric locomotive in 1931 for Wickwire- Spencer steel.

In reply to LS_BC8 :

I stumbled across a photo of it looking for the converted Heislers

Heisler also made an 0-8-0 Fireless engine for Pennsylvania Power & Light that is the largest fireless cooker ever built and the only 0-8-0 fireless engine ever built. After the geared steam locomotive market fell apart, Heisler built a lot of industrial fireless engines to try to stay in business.

In reply to NickD :

That's pretty slick-looking for a yard goat, even a fire less one...

Nick, since I'm working on what essentially is a home brewed "critter" for my HOn30 railroad, what can you tell me about industrial shunters, often, and generically referred to as Plymouths? Or any interesting shop built one offs? I'm looking for inspiration.

Plymouth is a brand name, probably one of the most popular out there. They were made in Plymouth, Ohio. No relationship to the car brand of course.

I picked this book up several years ago. It is mostly photos, which is great for a modeler.

I think I have a Plymouth 'catalog' or some sort of book in my stash also.

Oh, man, I'm going to have to hop on WorldCat and see if I can get that book sent to my local library. 

In reply to Recon1342 :

It was originally built by Heisler for the Hammermill Paper Company in Erie, PA. Before delivery, Heisler displayed it at the 1940 World's Fair. After the fair, they sent it to Hammermill, who discovered that it's 191,000lb weight was too much for their track system and sent it back to Heisler. Pennsylvania Power & Light, who already had a number of fireless engines, then purchased it off of Heisler, painted it in the blue and white (despite their other engines being painted orange) and used it until 1969, painting it black with gold at some point, and then donated it to the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania.

PP&L also had at least 3 of their fireless engines, 0-6-0 #2 at Sunbury and 0-4-0 #E123 at Safe Harbor (PP&L's numbering system in indecipherable) and an unknown engine at Shamokin Dan, converted to remote control operation. The idea was to make it a single man operation of spotting coal cars on the rotary car dumper and operating the rotary dumper. People who saw them in action remarked that it was both amusing and disarming to see the tiny little steam engines shuttling around the yard with no one in the cab.

The remote control system was pretty unreliable and did not work very well. Since fireless engines rarely have an onboard turbo-generator (a generator would use up steam pressure and reduce operating time), the whole mechanism had to run off banks of batteries mounted on the running boards, which were prone to being exhausted rather quickly. Also, the actuators were cobbled together by Union Switch & Signal Co. from a system designed for diesel locomotives and reportedly caused minor tearing of hair at US&S. Also, since it was the '60s and the tech wasn't that refined, along with not being intended for steam engines, it just wasn't that good. A steam locomotive has many notches on both the throttle and reverser, a fireless engine having even more to try and make it as efficient as possible, and the actuators lacked the fine control, which meant they were prone to making huge changes in throttle and cutoff. As a result, witnesses said the engines were frequently seen furiously spinning their drivers as the RC system yanked the throttle wide open.

You can make out the battery boxes on the running boards and the bottle rocket-shaped antenna on the cab. The early system was also applied to an Alco diesel switcher they acquired from the West Pittston & Exeter after Hurricane Diane wiped out that line in '72. In 1989, when an ex-SP SW900 replaced the Alco and the remaining fireless engines, it was outfitted with a newer RC system as well.

PP&L E-123 on display at a tour of the Safe Harbor facilities as part of an excursion in 1951. The folks in the photo are unknown, and this is before the E-123 was fitted with RC gear.

The only fireless engine actively listed as operational is The Cleveland Illuminating Co. #6 at Lake Shore Railroad Museum. They converted theirs to run on compressed air back around '02. Compressed air is a lot less powerful and efficient, but you can mount a compressor in a car behind it and run it around for pretty much unlimited time as long as you don't work it too hard to where the compressor can't keep up.

I also remember reading where someone got one of the Apache Powder narrow-gauge fireless engines, which had somehow migrated to New Jersey, operational on compressed air as well.

I read recently that despite not being used in decades, the narrow gauge tracks are still present at the Apache Powder complex because the ground is so soaked in chemicals, that to try and cut or grind the rails free would risk an explosion.

On the topic of "remote control" was the interesting operation of Clinchfield's excursion locomotive, Clinchfield #1.

When Tom Moore took over the Clinchfield in 1969, he learned that an old 1882 Brooks-built Ten-Wheeler, the "One Spot" was languishing in a Erwin, TN with weeds growing up around it. The little tea kettle had gotten around quite a bit in her younger years.

It was built in the Columbus, Chicago & Indiana Central shops in Logansport, Indiana in August of 1882 as CC&IC #423. It then became Chicago, St. Louis & Pittsburgh Railroad #423 in 1883 and helped with evacuations of the Johnstown Flood. In 1890 it went to the Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Chicago & St. Louis Railway in October of 1890. The PCC&StL was known at "The Panhandle" and became an integral part of the Pennsylvania Railroad. In 1899, PCC&StL #423 was renumbered as #543. In March of 1900, the engine was sold to the Ohio River & Charleston Railway in Johnson City, Tennessee as their #5. It was then sold to the South & Western in 1905. The S&W changed its name to the Carolina, Clinchfield & Ohio in 1908 and the Ten-Wheeler continued to carry the #5. It was finally sold to the Black Mountain Railway in April of 1913 and renumbered as #1 before being retired in 1955 and put on display in Erwin, Tennessee.

When Moore took over, he decided to have the One Spot fixed up by Clinchfield's shops in Erwin, almost on a whim as a pet project. They stated the interest in restoring the engine came from the fact that the little engine was sitting in the weeds with trees growing through the frame and they just felt an emotional desire to put her back on the main line. Most of the restoration materials were sourced from local venders and customers or fabricated by the diesel shop. Once they got it operational, they hauled a couple of employee specials, but as an old 1880s Ten-Wheeler, she wasn't the most powerful and was rated to only haul 2 heavyweight passenger cars. This was okay until word got out and people wanted to ride behind the #1, as well as Moore wanting to take advantage of the Clinchfield's scenic routing.

While they could have hooked an SD45 or an F7 in behind it, that would have spoiled the look. So they cleverly disguised to F3Bs, #200 and #250, to look like old baggage cars. They then hung a throttle control for the F-units from the cab of the #1. When hauling trains longer than 2 cars, the B-units would be cut in between the #1 and her train and they would do the actual hauling. The #1 would be steamed up enough to generate smoke puffs out the stack, blow the whistle and provide lubrication to the cylinders, making it looks like she was doing all the work, while the pair of B-units did all the hard work.

They just almost blend in with the heavyweight passenger cars. Unless you know what you're looking at, you wouldn't suspect a thing.

You can see the control box, with the 8 throttle positions marked, hanging over the engineer's seat.

For the next ten years, Clinchfield #1, with and without her diesel assistance, roamed the Clinchfield. Although overshadowed by a lot of the bigger engines pounding the rails, like the Reading T1s and NKP Berkshires and both Steamtown and George Hart's armies of CP Pacifics, the One Spot had heart. As one person recounts, "Even though it was a small engine they were adventurous with the One Spot. Some excursions were offered out of Erwin with no diesel helpers and 2 cars (coach and a Pullman parlor car--that still had ice AC). On the way back it was all down hill so an open car and a wooden caboose (standard Clinchfield equipment) was added on the back. This mainline roller-coaster was a thrill ride...plunging through those tunnels on that open gondola at whatever speed we were going...was something I will never forget. I have never (before or since) dumped so many cinders out of my pockets. For the 1975 NRHS convention in Knoxpatch they brought the One Spot down with a helper and that modern office car. An excursion over the L&N to Friendsville was done with 2 coaches (and no diesel). It was the last train ever to Friendsville, the scrappers pulled the rail up minutes after the train left town. They pushed the little engine to it's limits, that is no doubt. I heard that the bell would "clang" every time they hit a soft spot in the ballast."

Adding to the story of the trip to Friendsville "I am told that the conventioneers on the train did know the scrappers were waiting for the train to leave. The L&N had been "begged" to allow the trip to happen, and it was just luck that it happened at all. They held off on the scrapping as long as they could. I am also told that the One Spot had a little trouble getting the train up the hill and slipped a lot. A local high school band was there for the event and every time the train backed back into town to make another run at the hill they struck up another tune. By the time the train got over the hill, the band was out of steam as well. A good time was had by all."

In later years, as the boiler got worn out, it was derated to enough pressure to operate the whistle and relied more heavily on the F3Bs.

Finally, in 1978, just shy of her 100th birthday, the frame on #1 developed some severe cracks that led to her being parked permanently. Tom Moore would end up leasing C&O #2716 from the Kentucky Railway Museum and Clinchfield began a restoration, which would be aborted when Moore was arrested for embezzlement. With Moore gone, Clinchfield ended up being fully absorbed by Family Lines (SAL, ACL, L&N), #2716 was sent back to KRM in pieces and #1 went to the B&O Museum where she remains on display, still retaining her diesel control box in the cab. Another side effect of the #1 program was that a number of L&N passenger cars were saved from the torch and are now used at both TVRM and KRM.

More than any other component railroad, CSX seems most proud of the Clinchfield, which is a little odd, when you consider it was one of the smaller operations that make up the giant Class 1. 

Consider Clinchfield #800, an F7 that CSX Transportation restored to Clinchfield colors (it was wearing C&O colors) back in 2017 to haul the CSX Santa Train, itself a Clinchfield tradition dating from 1942 that CSX has continued to operate. CSX also used it to move C&O #2716 from Kentucky Railroad Museum to Kentucky Steam Heritage Center and a few other outings. 

CSX also borrowed a restored Seaboard Coast Line SD45, #2024, from Southern Appalachia Railroad Museum and painted it up in Clinchfield colors and numbered it #3632 (Clinchfield's last batch of SD45s were #3625-3631) and used it for some publicity work. Funny because, like the #700 in C&O paint, SCL was a major part of CSX Trasnportation.

Perhaps most impressive was that back in '92, for the 50th anniversary of the Santa Train, CSX somehow convinced Union Pacific to lend them Challenger #3985 and dress it up as Clinchfield #676 and haul the train with it.

In reply to NickD :

CSX is kind of an odd duck anyways... 

In reply to Recon1342 :

That's the polite way to put it. I've heard a lot of negative experiences from trying to deal with CSX. Like a group who said every time that they interchanged passenger cars over CSX, the cars got severely damaged from CSX running them over the hump despite the cars being labeled to be flat-switched only. Couple pockets blown off the ends, damaged vestibules, cracked or broken windows, even one where the impact derailed the truck and no one noticed until they pulled the string of cars and the derailed passenger car nearly sideswiped the cars in the next track over

Sounds like they should rebrand to try and boost their flagging reputation. Maybe go back to Chessie System. 

In reply to slowbird :

I wouldn't mind seeing that livery again...

I miss my little rail car.

The Union Pacific #3985/Clinchfield #676 deal really was, to use a cliche, a Christmas miracle. For the 50th running of the CSX Santa Train, begun by Carolina, Clinchfield & Ohio Railroad, CSX wanted to do something really special and they wanted to pay homage to it's Clinchfield beginnings. And since this was before CSX became a total wet blanket, that meant steam power. 

The problem was, there are only two surviving Clinchfield steam locomotives. The 1882-built 4-6-0 #1, was entombed at the B&O Railroad Museum, had a severely cracked frame and was underpowered, being only rated for 2 passenger cars. The other Clinchfield engine, a 1905-built Ten-Wheeler #99 in Jackson, TN, was also similarly underpowered and had not been operated since its retirement in the '40s, requiring a full overhaul, as well as being decorated as Casey Jones' infamous Illinois Central #382. Throughout much of the '60s and '70s, rumors persisted of a third Clinchfield steam locomotive, a 2-8-2 being used as a steam boiler at an Alcoa plant, and were perpetuated by a rather well-known rail photographer in the pages of a magazine, with each story bringing him closer to getting access to this engine. They abruptly stopped when it turned out that this Clinchfield Mike, like the NYC Hudson hidden in a barn or a quarry, was a fabrication by said photographer. He remained touchy about the subject for years later.

Now, the easy button would have been to borrow a light Mike, like Southern #4501 or Grand Trunk Western #4070, both of which were roaming the rails in excursion service, and give them a makeover with a high-mounted headlight and Clinchfield lettering and numbering. But, being it was the 50th anniversary and you only get one of those, CSX was apparently not interested in the easy way. The Carolina, Clinchfield & Ohio, in addition to its scenery and famous Clinchfield Loops, was famous for operating some large articulated power, including multiple classes of 4-6-6-4 Challengers (btw, Clinchfield Challengers would be a terrific name for a minor league baseball team). While the eight E-1 Class and four E-2 Class Challengers were basically a duplicate of D&H J-95 Challenger, the six E-3 Challengers were a Union Pacific 4-6-6-4. Not a duplicate, they had actually been a part of 20-unit order by UP, which had been diverted to the D&RGW by the War Production Board and then sold to Clinchfield in 1947. The E-3s actually remained on Clinchfield property until 1969, waiting for the equipment trusts to run out, before being sent south to Florida and all scrapped in 1971. Clinchfield used UP Challengers and UP had #3985 operating under their excursion program, so it made sense for CSX to reach out to UP. And UP agreed, and sent Steve Lee and his team, along with UP #3985 the farthest east they had ever and have ever been, to Kingston, TN. 

Plans derailed, literally and figuratively, at Kingston. After applying magnetic Clinchfield lettering and numbering to the cab and tender and a new #676 number plate to the smokebox, they attempted to back #3985/#676 on the Kingston wye to get it facing the right direction to pull its train up to Shelby, KY, the start of the Santa Train, where it would be turned again to head south to head back to Kingston. What exactly the issue was, nobody was quite sure. Maybe there was a communication error between Steve Lee and CSX, maybe Clinchfield had never operated their Challengers on that division and turned them at Kingston, or maybe the radius of the wye had been changed at some point since the '50s. But #3985/#676's centipede tender refused to navigate the radius. The first attempt, it got so far and then the rear couple axles derailed. The CSX and UP crews rerailed it, then tried dumping all air pressure on the tender brakes to try and get a bit more lateral play in the axles. They got a little farther, then it derailed again. It was rerailed a third time, and this time they tried to pull the tender through the wye with a GP30 (which in 1992 had to be running out its last miles for CSX). Again, it got a little bit farther and derailed the rear couple of axles again. Worried about damaging the tender or rolling a rail, they called it quits, with no one particularly happy. Finally the decision was made to just tow #3985/#676 and the train in reverse up to Shelby, KY with shiny new C40-8W #7782, where it would be facing the correct direction to pull the train back to Kingsport.

The next day, while it was downpouring, crowds flocked to the trackside to see the Ghost Of Clinchfield Past pound down the line, while CSX employees tossed out toys and Moon Pies (it was KY and TN, after all).

Most famously, they parked it on the soaring bridge over Copper Creek and the Norfolk Southern line. Steve Lee is reported to have sat there and blasted the whistle over 2 dozen times, and then jokingly blew down the boiler so that they could take a figurative leak on NS.

While the event was a huge success, it wasn't without some tribulations. Again, either Clinchfield had never run their big E-3 Challengers on this division, or their had been some sort of change in the track curvature, because on a tight curve onto a passing siding they smashed the fireman's running board on a coal hopper car on an adjoining track, which had to have been a bracing experience. UP's ground crew fixed it as best they could and continued running it with the crumpled board. After that, they made sure every passing siding was completely clear, no locomotives or cars at all, whenever the big articulated pounded through.

Clinchfield had had some tunnel clearance troubles with the big ex-D&RGW/UP Challengers when they had first received them, and the first one through the Altapass tunnel had scraped up the tunnel wall and side of the locomotive. Clinchfield had installed a shoofly track to avoid that issue. Steve Lee and the UP crew were probably pretty thankful of that.

After the event was over, #3985/#676 headed back to St. Louis where it changed back onto UP rails and headed back to Cheyenne. It never wore its Clinchfield disguise again and, as far as I can tell, she never came that far east again. Likely never will either, as #3985 was parked in 2010, needing a complete overhaul, and then with #Big Boy #4014 returned to operation, UP has decided to permanently retire the Challenger.

This photo is interesting just because both engines are rods-down. That's a rare sight.

Clinchfield E-2 Challenger #661 and 3 others at Erwin, TN in  August of 1962. Although retired in 1954, they hung around until December of '62 before sold to David J. Joseph Company, a Florida scrapyard, which cut them up between '69 and '71. Presumably, like C&O, they held onto them expecting a traffic surge to make them recall them to service.

At the Florida Yard. The tenders have presumably already been disposed of.

This gondola has seen some E36 M3.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/john_leopard/16675793950/

It's cool you mentioned Baker valves.  A.D. Baker made steam traction engines until 1929.  My family has three.  The one half completed is the last steam engine manufactured by Baker.  

slowbird said:

This gondola has seen some E36 M3.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/john_leopard/16675793950/

I bet that car was never interchanged. Yikes. That's at Northwestern Steel & Wire, which was home to operating Grand Trunk Western 0-8-0 switchers until December of 1980. Northwestern Steel & Wire took a bunch of GTW switch engines in for scrap and instead used them at the yard's insular railroad. My favorite is the one that they hooked a Soo Lines oil tender to. Because the front bunker was too tall to clear the cab awning, they just hooked the tender up backwards, with the water bunker forwards and the oil cistern in the back.