Grizz
Dork
7/27/12 1:34 p.m.
In reply to pres589:
The company that owned the cinema, every one of their cinemas across the country is marked as a gun free zone. Just like Virginia Tech, Columbine and pretty much any other place where mass shootings were able to go on uninterrupted until the police showed up. The law abiding citizens, had no guns on them. Unlike Paducah or Virginia Law School or any other place where shooting started and were stopped by armed bystanders that we never hear of because it doesn't fit the narrative.
Funny how that works though right? People ignoring signs saying gun free zone or drug free zone when they want to break the law.
And no, I'm not asking for metal detectors and government agents. The opposite actually.
pres589 wrote:
In reply to Bobzilla:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Instant_Criminal_Background_Check_System
"By law, an FFL must receive a response from the NICS within 3 days or the firearm sale can proceed, although they are not required to do so. If, after 3 days, the sale is completed and later it is determined the buyer should not have received the firearm, then the firearm must be retrieved. "
I've never purchased a gun but are you finding this to not be the case?
Handguns have a longer wait period. You must pass the NICS background check before the sale can proceed. I've never met an FFL that would sell a firearm without a response from the NICS background check.
PHeller
SuperDork
7/27/12 1:35 p.m.
I just want to know what you purpose to do about 14 people getting killed in movie theatre? Not on the street during gang violence. Not because a spouse cheated. Not because the shooter was an Islamic militant and disagreed with the war.
What do you do about movie theaters and schools? Government buildings? Any public gathering of people?
Grizz wrote:
In reply to pres589:
The company that owned the cinema, every one of their cinemas across the country is marked as a gun free zone. Just like Virginia Tech, Columbine and pretty much any other place where mass shootings were able to go on uninterrupted until the police showed up. The law abiding citizens, had no guns on them. Unlike Paducah or Virginia Law School or any other place where shooting started and were stopped by armed bystanders that we never hear of because it doesn't fit the narrative.
Funny how that works though right? People ignoring signs saying gun free zone or drug free zone when they want to break the law.
And no, I'm not asking for metal detectors and government agents. The opposite actually.
Agreed. It's been proven time and time again that "gun free zones" are not doing anything to protect anyone. Why the wierdo lefties think it does is beyond my comprehension.
The0retical wrote:
So you'd prefer we have a new gun owners course?
Not a bad idea. Education is key for ANYTHING. As stated, we take driving tests. If you're getting a CHL you need to take a course which includes introduction to the laws and regulations of owning and operating a firearm, safety training, as well as range training to get you qualified as a shooter.
I really think that everyone should go through some sort of firearm training in order to familiarize people with the actual operation and safety of the machines. But I don't see that as happening, what with all the educational cuts and budget restraints and all even trying to teach our kids the basics. LOL
PHeller wrote:
I just want to know what you purpose to do about 14 people getting killed in movie theatre? Not on the street during gang violence. Not because a spouse cheated. Not because the shooter was an Islamic militant and disagreed with the war.
What do you do about movie theaters and schools? Government buildings? Any public gathering of people?
You allow legal citizens to protect themselves everywhere. You will not prevent someone hell bent on death and destruction. Ever. The only thing we can do is minimize the damage caused by allowing people to protect themselves. Follow the looser rules like Texas, Florida, etc that allow people to own, carry and defend themselves from low-life thugs and crazy mass murderers.
Let them KNOW that if they try, they will die and it may before they get to succeed at their intended target.
In reply to Grizz:
I have heard of the Paducah & VA Law School shootings. These events get talked about...
Grizz wrote:
Unlike Paducah or Virginia Law School or any other place where shooting started and were stopped by armed bystanders that we never hear of because it doesn't fit the narrative.
Do you have links to these? I am interested in reading about these situations.
93EXCivic wrote:
Grizz wrote:
Unlike Paducah or Virginia Law School or any other place where shooting started and were stopped by armed bystanders that we never hear of because it doesn't fit the narrative.
Do you have links to these? I am interested in reading about these situations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heath_High_School_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting
yamaha
Reader
7/27/12 1:44 p.m.
Pres, yes, sticks and stones were a bit far fetched, but for a point. It is indeed an exageration, but the point still is, someone who intends to do others harm, will still do said harm.
PHeller wrote:
If a guy walks in my movie theater with an AR15, what can I do?
What do you think the likelyhood of that is? I would hope higher than winning the lotto. Chances are very likely you will either enjoy or ask "Why the hell did I pay to see this?" about the movie......and then walk out perfectly alive and safe.
What can you do, this is the Fight or Flight reaction. Honestly, if escape isn't possible....are you better off to wait your turn to be injured/killed or would you rather fight back in whatever way possible?
Put it this way, the media makes this a much bigger issue than it is. Sure, it is an absolutely terrible thing, but it is not any different than anything else that can kill you.
My final point to this thread, as I'm tired of the arguement is:
Life is a game of odds, when your number is up, it truly is game over. It doesn't matter what causes it or what you are doing, the point of life is enjoy the time you have.
PHeller wrote:
I just want to know what you purpose to do about 14 people getting killed in movie theatre? Not on the street during gang violence. Not because a spouse cheated. Not because the shooter was an Islamic militant and disagreed with the war.
What do you do about movie theaters and schools? Government buildings? Any public gathering of people?
What are you going to do about High School girls texting and driving and killing people? Ban all Cell phones? Require new car MFRs to build in expensive nanny tech that blocks cell signals? What can you do? Make it possible for the 99% of the law abiding public to defend themselves with their own arms...oh wait, we already have that RIGHT.
As PROVEN before, gun laws dont stop crazy a-holes from doing crazy a-hole stuff. How about we stop trying to force the round peg into the square hole - gun laws dont prevent gun violence. Knowledge, training, and availability to the public does.
When Russia built an arsenal in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, did we simply wag a finger at them and say "hey now you bad guys, youre not allowed to have that stuff, guns are bad mmmkay"? No, we got bigger guns. Unfortunately, when it comes to force, the only way to prevent its use is with the threat of an equally oposing force.
Conquest351 wrote:
The0retical wrote:
So you'd prefer we have a new gun owners course?
Not a bad idea. Education is key for ANYTHING. As stated, we take driving tests. If you're getting a CHL you need to take a course which includes introduction to the laws and regulations of owning and operating a firearm, safety training, as well as range training to get you qualified as a shooter.
I really think that everyone should go through some sort of firearm training in order to familiarize people with the actual operation and safety of the machines. But I don't see that as happening, what with all the educational cuts and budget restraints and all even trying to teach our kids the basics. LOL
I'm not totally against it but the pundits would scream that it's backdoor gun registration. I tend to be more restrained however.
Bobzilla wrote:
I have my Indiana LTCH, and I still have to wait 7 days at times because the federal background check cannot be completed quickly.
Fun fact: In Missouri, you can walk in, pay, and walk out with a gun in hand. No wait period. Still a background check, of course.
After this law was instituted, there was no change in violent crime that could be attributed to the change.
N Sperlo wrote:
Bobzilla wrote:
I have my Indiana LTCH, and I still have to wait 7 days at times because the federal background check cannot be completed quickly.
Fun fact: In Missouri, you can walk in, pay, and walk out with a gun in hand. No wait period. Still a background check, of course.
After this law was instituted, there was no change in violent crime that could be attributed to the change.
Long arm, I'm sure that's possible. Handgun? No. The Brady Bill prohibits that.
This argument from the left is as annoying to me as anti-abortion and anti-gay rights from the right.
You are limiting what law abiding citizens are allowed to have or be able to do. I have no problem what so ever going down to the court house and being finger printed to get a weapons permit, having to take a weapons course(although I was a Range Coach in the USMC), or doing a background check every time I purchase a weapon. That is all legitimate and reasonable requirements to be a gun owner.
However, most anti gun people have little to no experience purchasing a weapon or dealing with the ATF directly. I have seen some of the most ridiculous and needless regulations that require a stupid amount of paperwork. Adding a magazine round limitation is going to be IMPOSSIBLE to enforce. You guys really have no idea how many of them are out there. There are Billions(okay, maybe just millions) of just 30 round AR magazines in the states. Also, they will most likely not be able to retroactively ban them.
9/11 was able to happen because of box cutters and airplanes how many people did that kill? The master weapon behind that and this massacre was absolute craziness. Not the length of the blade or the number of seats on the plane.
In reply to PHeller:
I notice you seem to refer to bullet proof vests quite a bit. They're not really bullet proof. They're resistant. If you get hit with a large enough caliber, it will break ribs and berkley you up. It's also just that, a vest. Your head and extremities are still vulnerable. This is because the chest/center mass/body is the largest and easiest to acquire target on a person. It's also where most of the vital organs reside. If, as was mentioned earler, you're hit multiple times with, say, a .45 then you have some major damage through your vest. If you engage a group of targets where you have multiple return engagements upon yourself, you're pretty berkleyed. It's a game of numbers. Also a game of calibers. A .308 cuts through body armor with no problem. I believe a .223 will as well, that's what the AR15 uses. The 7.62x39 that the AK47 uses makes short work of Kevlar too.
Also as mentioned, the state of Texas is what's called a "Life and property state" where as I can defend myself AND my property with deadly force. That's right. If someone breaks into my house and has my property and is leaving my residence but still on my property (I've used that word a lot I know) then I can engage them lethally and legally. If someone tries to steal my car, I can defend myself and my car with deadly force.
I agree that allowing citizens to defend themselves is key, all the over regulation is doing is cutting down on our ability to legally do so.
Grizz wrote:
In reply to pres589:
The company that owned the cinema, every one of their cinemas across the country is marked as a gun free zone.
Fun fact 2: In Missouri it is not a crime to enter a "gun free zone." (with a gun if course) If u are asked to leave and you refuse, that is when the trouble starts. I feel safer due to this.
Bobzilla wrote:
N Sperlo wrote:
Bobzilla wrote:
I have my Indiana LTCH, and I still have to wait 7 days at times because the federal background check cannot be completed quickly.
Fun fact: In Missouri, you can walk in, pay, and walk out with a gun in hand. No wait period. Still a background check, of course.
After this law was instituted, there was no change in violent crime that could be attributed to the change.
Long arm, I'm sure that's possible. Handgun? No. The Brady Bill prohibits that.
Thats funny. Guess I slipped through the cracks every time.
N Sperlo wrote:
Bobzilla wrote:
N Sperlo wrote:
Bobzilla wrote:
I have my Indiana LTCH, and I still have to wait 7 days at times because the federal background check cannot be completed quickly.
Fun fact: In Missouri, you can walk in, pay, and walk out with a gun in hand. No wait period. Still a background check, of course.
After this law was instituted, there was no change in violent crime that could be attributed to the change.
Long arm, I'm sure that's possible. Handgun? No. The Brady Bill prohibits that.
Thats funny. Guess I slipped through the cracks every time.
Same here in Texas. I have bought weapons and left with them the same day. They do the background check but I always get OK'd and off I go to the range, or my back yard. LOL
Conquest351 wrote:
N Sperlo wrote:
Bobzilla wrote:
N Sperlo wrote:
Bobzilla wrote:
I have my Indiana LTCH, and I still have to wait 7 days at times because the federal background check cannot be completed quickly.
Fun fact: In Missouri, you can walk in, pay, and walk out with a gun in hand. No wait period. Still a background check, of course.
After this law was instituted, there was no change in violent crime that could be attributed to the change.
Long arm, I'm sure that's possible. Handgun? No. The Brady Bill prohibits that.
Thats funny. Guess I slipped through the cracks every time.
Same here in Texas. I have bought weapons and left with them the same day. They do the background check but I always get OK'd and off I go to the range, or my back yard. LOL
The bill was killed in 1998.
N Sperlo wrote:
Grizz wrote:
In reply to pres589:
The company that owned the cinema, every one of their cinemas across the country is marked as a gun free zone.
Fun fact 2: In Missouri it is not a crime to enter a "gun free zone." (with a gun if course) If u are asked to leave and you refuse, that is when the trouble starts. I feel safer due to this.
Some states those signs do carry the weight of law, I do believe Tennessee is one of those. Indiana is not. Refusal to leave is then considered criminal trespass.
N Sperlo wrote:
Conquest351 wrote:
N Sperlo wrote:
Bobzilla wrote:
N Sperlo wrote:
Bobzilla wrote:
I have my Indiana LTCH, and I still have to wait 7 days at times because the federal background check cannot be completed quickly.
Fun fact: In Missouri, you can walk in, pay, and walk out with a gun in hand. No wait period. Still a background check, of course.
After this law was instituted, there was no change in violent crime that could be attributed to the change.
Long arm, I'm sure that's possible. Handgun? No. The Brady Bill prohibits that.
Thats funny. Guess I slipped through the cracks every time.
Same here in Texas. I have bought weapons and left with them the same day. They do the background check but I always get OK'd and off I go to the range, or my back yard. LOL
The bill was killed in 1998.
Damn, I guess it has been a while since I purchased a handgun. sum-beech.
Conquest351 wrote:
N Sperlo wrote:
Bobzilla wrote:
N Sperlo wrote:
Bobzilla wrote:
I have my Indiana LTCH, and I still have to wait 7 days at times because the federal background check cannot be completed quickly.
Fun fact: In Missouri, you can walk in, pay, and walk out with a gun in hand. No wait period. Still a background check, of course.
After this law was instituted, there was no change in violent crime that could be attributed to the change.
Long arm, I'm sure that's possible. Handgun? No. The Brady Bill prohibits that.
Thats funny. Guess I slipped through the cracks every time.
Same here in Texas. I have bought weapons and left with them the same day. They do the background check but I always get OK'd and off I go to the range, or my back yard. LOL
The instant electronic background checks overrode the Brady waiting period. It's up to the states for the waiting period now. Florida allows you buy and walk with a handgun on the same day. It also allows two CWP owners to transfer handguns without FFLs provided there is a bill of sale with both the permit numbers on it.
