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Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/1/22 6:00 p.m.
alfadriver said:

If you look at the effects of Syria- which Putin is very much helping the destabilization- the pattern of trying to destabilize the West has been a long term goal of Putin.  This is just another version of the same thing.  Both are killing a lot of people and both are pushing massive amounts of refugees into the EU very quickly.

Pretty sad that his best effort is to try to make the west worse off, as opposed to working to make Russia better. 

You're not thinking like a zero sum game sociopath.  (Which, really, is a good thing)

If Russians had better, that meant that they had wealth that HE didn't have.  That chaps the ass of a ZSG sociopath.  They don't see the concept of a rising tide raising all boats, just i/me/mine.

QuasiMofo (John Brown)
QuasiMofo (John Brown) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/1/22 6:06 p.m.

In reply to eastsideTim :

But they did absorb them years ago.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
4/1/22 6:45 p.m.

In reply to eastsideTim :

All he really had to do was to supply the world with pretty cheap labor that stayed home to build stuff.  That's all China had to do for the world, and it was even able to stay communist.  Let alone, have the top profit more than anyone can imagine at the same time- there are more rich Chinese going to school in the US than there are rich russians.

Heck, russia even has a lot of real resources to build stuff.  All they really take advantage of is the oil.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
4/1/22 6:48 p.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
alfadriver said:

If you look at the effects of Syria- which Putin is very much helping the destabilization- the pattern of trying to destabilize the West has been a long term goal of Putin.  This is just another version of the same thing.  Both are killing a lot of people and both are pushing massive amounts of refugees into the EU very quickly.

Pretty sad that his best effort is to try to make the west worse off, as opposed to working to make Russia better. 

You're not thinking like a zero sum game sociopath.  (Which, really, is a good thing)

If Russians had better, that meant that they had wealth that HE didn't have.  That chaps the ass of a ZSG sociopath.  They don't see the concept of a rising tide raising all boats, just i/me/mine.

Maybe.  But the top Chinese officials have made boatloads of money....  

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/1/22 6:55 p.m.

In reply to alfadriver :

While true, I don't think there is nearly the same wealth disparity.  I read somewhere (maybe this thread) that rich Russians have more wealth outside of Russia than exists inside Russia.  The Chinese middle class is also expanding rapidly, Russia does not have that.

Maybe the Chinese do have ultrawealthy, but they hide it better.  Or they put that money into wealthbuilding projects (IIRC there is a Chinese law to the effect of owned land must be developed or it reverts to the State after a while, which is why they endlessly build empty cities)

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
4/1/22 6:55 p.m.
alfadriver said:
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
alfadriver said:

If you look at the effects of Syria- which Putin is very much helping the destabilization- the pattern of trying to destabilize the West has been a long term goal of Putin.  This is just another version of the same thing.  Both are killing a lot of people and both are pushing massive amounts of refugees into the EU very quickly.

Pretty sad that his best effort is to try to make the west worse off, as opposed to working to make Russia better. 

You're not thinking like a zero sum game sociopath.  (Which, really, is a good thing)

If Russians had better, that meant that they had wealth that HE didn't have.  That chaps the ass of a ZSG sociopath.  They don't see the concept of a rising tide raising all boats, just i/me/mine.

Maybe.  But the top Chinese officials have made boatloads of money....  

Yes, but to to some it is in their nature to not only gather power and money, but to also make sure others don't get any power and money.  They'd rather have a bigger piece of a smaller pie than have a relatively smaller piece of a much bigger pie.

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
4/1/22 6:56 p.m.

Let's be real. There's plenty of tinpot dictators who are happy to benefit themselves and their cronies to the detriment of their populace. IMO Putin is nothing less or more than one of that despicable class. It's hard work to have a viable representative democracy, and if you're on top and the voters aren't happy with you,  they can easily throw you out on the street. I don't think that this war is mysterious at all. Putin's living in an echo chamber with nobody to dissuade him when he says: "Hey let's annex Ukraine for it's wealth and geography. How hard can it be? Look at what a cakewalk Crimea was."  

Sidewayze
Sidewayze Reader
4/1/22 9:45 p.m.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to 06HHR (Forum Supporter) :"Has a country ever actually paid reparations to a country it invaded?"

That's a really salient question. The Treaty of Versailles after WWI hit Germany with all sorts of reparations, and the main effect was to assist the rise of Hitler. After WWII we did the opposite. The Marshall Plan helped Germany and Japan get onto their feet again, and the result was that they become among our most trusted allies - especially offsetting China and the USSR.

I read an article by Andrew Sullivan recently who suggested that when the USSR broke up, we should have enacted something similar to the Marshall Plan to help out Russia and the Eastern bloc countries. It would have been very expensive, but might have produced a much more favorable geopolitical situation. 

One could argue there were cultural differences that made the situations post-WW2 and post-Cold War a bit different. 

Despite the strong anti-German sentiment during the war, there was still quite a bit of German heritage in the US which made it a little easier to reintegrate Germany back into the western world. 

Japan was a bit different, but the population there was so defeated, they didn't have much of a choice. 

The end of the Cold War was a bit different. There was no decisive victory. No welcome home parades. Life in the US sort of just continued on with a cultural shrug.  We won the war by flat out-spending the USSR, and while we are still feeling the repercussions of that spending (and probably will for some time), it wasn't really in the forefront of the average American mind.  And there was a huge amount of investment into the former Soviet block countries, except it was done more through private corporate investment. Investments those companies are now having trouble with. Investments that sometimes strengthened the oligarch society currently entrenched there.

Russia has generally not considered their country part of the West, nor part of Europe.  Over the years, I got the impression much of Europe tried to bring Russia into the rest of Europe and likely had some level of faith that the more integrated their economies became (oil, gas, wheat, etc.), the less likely an event like this would occur. 

Obviously, there have been some miscalculations. But in order to prevent a repeat, we need to at try to understand how we arrived at this point.  Putin seems to have a strong fear of the West. Why?  Perhaps he saw that economic integration as a threat to his power and/or to Russia as a country. If there's one thing about capitalism, change can happen quickly. Sometimes more quickly than some are prepared to accept.

Sorry, a bit late to this part of the discussion.  Something which gets missed in this part of discussion of what happened after the world wars and the effects is the cause of what happened after WW2.  As much as we'd like to think that the Allied powers had learned from what happened after WW1 and decided to do better, that was really sadly, not the case.  The Allies support of Germany and Japan after WW2 was all about keeping the Soviet Union from expanding further into Europe and Asia.  

And, as has been stated, it seemed that the real lesson still had not been learned in 90's when Russia was essentially treated as nothing more than a vanquished foe at the end of the cold war.

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
4/1/22 10:08 p.m.

As much as we'd like to think that the Allied powers had learned from what happened after WW1 and decided to do better, that was really sadly, not the case.  The Allies support of Germany and Japan after WW2 was all about keeping the Soviet Union from expanding further into Europe and Asia.  

We said basically the same thing. You just take a more cynical angle to it. I believe that both factors came into play.  What's unfortunate is how often the same mistakes repeat. The biggest factors that go into war seem to be pretty consistent: Greed, ego, fear, bad information and bad communication.

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
4/2/22 12:41 a.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Maybe the Chinese do have ultrawealthy, but they hide it better.  Or they put that money into wealthbuilding projects (IIRC there is a Chinese law to the effect of owned land must be developed or it reverts to the State after a while, which is why they endlessly build empty cities)

There's an argument that China has gone from Communist straight to Fascist, in the sense of switching from outright state ownership of the means of production to nominal private ownership but with extensive state planning and control.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/2/22 7:41 a.m.

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

And the pedant in me is irked because State control of the means of production is socialism, not communism, but it's neither here nor there at this point.

02Pilot
02Pilot UberDork
4/2/22 8:56 a.m.

Regarding war termination and the nature of the subsequent peace, one has to consider the WW2 case an anomaly, in the sense that very few conflicts are carried out to the point of unconditional surrender. In most wars, things wind down before the weaker side is exposed to an existential threat, allowing the existing regime to persist, or failing that, for a view that war was not really lost to be sustained by a portion of the population (particularly if the settlement was punitive), leading to revanchism. For a negotiated peace settlement between existing governments to be durable, the conditions must minimize the motivations for the weaker power to develop support for a corrective use of force at a later date. The paradox is that the stronger state is often unwilling to give such generous terms, as the political will to consider the long-term situation will frequently be subsumed by the emotion of victory and a desire to extract payment for the costs of the war.

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
4/2/22 1:03 p.m.

This is a real eye opener regarding the Donbas reagion:

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...yrrhic-victory

 

On March 25, the deputy chief of the Russian military declared that the main emphasis of Russia’s brutal one-month-old Ukraine invasion would now be in the east, where it would seek “the liberation” of the Donbas. To many Western observers, the aim of the statement was clear: with the Russian offensives around Kyiv, Kharkiv, and other major Ukrainian cities virtually stalled and Russian forces absorbing heavy losses, Moscow needed a way to reclaim the mission. Focusing on the Donbas—where it has long been commanding, arming, and reinforcing separatists in Ukraine’s Donetsk and Luhansk provinces—was a convenient way to do so.

But from the outset of the war, the east has held a special place of importance for Russian President Vladimir Putin. After eight years of fighting in the area, expanding the Russian-backed Donetsk and Luhansk “People’s Republics” to the edges of each province has become an ideological imperative for the Russian leader. The Donbas has high rates of Russian language use relative to the rest of Ukraine, and when Moscow began its covert invasion of the country in 2014, residents provided significant support. In elections since then, the area has backed Russian-sympathetic parties. If there was any part of Ukraine that Moscow might have been able to swiftly bring into its fold, it would seem to be there.

Russian forces have certainly tried to quickly seize the area. Since launching its invasion, Russia has moved aggressively and from multiple sides, surging out of the Crimean Peninsula in the south to take the Sea of Azov coastline, descending from the north through the Sloboda Ukraine region, and pushing west across the Seversky Donets River from Luhansk’s separatist territory. Thousands of Donbas residents have been killed in Russian attacks, especially in the besieged city of Mariupol. Major cities have been reduced to ruin.

But any assumptions that Russian forces might have an easier time in eastern Ukraine were mistaken. Despite the aggressive assault, Moscow has not taken full control of the region’s major urban areas: Kramatorsk, Mariupol, and Severodonetsk. Its northern and southern invasion forces still have several lines of Ukrainian defenses and a few hundred kilometers of territory to cross before they can unite, and the army is fighting hard to prevent Russia from succeeding. And even in the places that have fallen, Russia has struggled to assert its dominance. There has been limited vocal support from locals; indeed, many have turned out to protest the occupation, staring down arrest, violence, and even forced relocations.

The unexpected combination of military and civil resistance in the east has put the entirety of Russia’s war strategy in question. If the country can’t take and hold eastern Ukraine, it is extremely unlikely it will succeed anywhere else.

Since the start of the war, Russian forces have made the seizure of Mariupol a major objective. The city, the largest in the government-controlled part of the Donbas, has enormous strategic importance. It is located next to the land bridge to Crimea. Its vast metallurgical plants have been a major source of Ukrainian GDP. And the city has enormous cultural importance. Mariupol’s population is overwhelmingly Russian-speaking, and in November 2020, a poll showed that a remarkable 83.4 percent of respondents believed Russians and Ukrainians were one people.

But at the same time, Kyiv has poured millions into the city since 2014 in an attempt to change attitudes and showcase the benefits of being part of Ukraine. The Ukrainian government beautifully restored the downtown, erected new service centers, and revitalized the city’s public transportation system. The idea that the city’s residents might feel warmer about Kyiv, however, was lost on Russia’s military and media. Indeed, from the start of the war, the media crowed about a showdown with Ukrainian fascists in the city, referring to its Azov Battalion—a special military unit with deep links to the extreme right. Putin’s military planners assumed that, once attacked, Ukrainian forces in Mariupol would lay down their arms, Russian soldiers would be greeted as saviors, and the Azov fighters would be killed in battle or captured and then tried by military tribunal.

Instead, Ukrainian forces have ferociously fought back, inflicting some of the highest casualty numbers Russia has faced anywhere in the country. Disoriented by reality, Russian forces have lashed out at the city with mass artillery, plane strikes, and naval shelling. Mariupol’s government estimates that 90 percent of the city’s buildings are damaged or destroyed, from its charming tsarist-era downtown to the endless neighborhoods of Soviet apartment blocks to the massive steel plant on the city’s coast. The city administration claims at least 5,000 civilians are dead, with more beneath the rubble.

Russia may hope that shellshocked survivors will blame their plight not on Russia’s bombardment but on the Ukrainian military and Azov Battalion’s refusal to surrender. I have heard one fleeing resident express this opinion. But more common is white-hot rage at Russia. Consider, for instance, Oleksandr Shkatula, who ran a popular artisan cheese business in Mariupol. Shkatula set up his shop after leaving behind a restaurant near Russian-occupied Donetsk due to fighting in 2014. When the Russian military blasted Mariupol’s power supply, he cooked outdoor meals for his neighbors until the bombing became too intense. Then, he and his family packed up and hitchhiked out of the shattered city and gradually made their way to government-controlled territory. “Four hours in a car and all we saw were ruins,” he told me. At checkpoints, Russian soldiers gave his children cookies, “as if it was not they who had been torturing them with hunger,” he said. “Our suffering will stick in their throat and choke them.” Shkatula is a lifelong Russian speaker, but since the invasion began on February 24, he says he has only spoken Ukrainian.

The city’s large Greek minority provides another good barometer for how residents feel about the city’s destruction. Although it is politically diverse, the Azov Greek community has a long tradition of sympathy toward Russia, thanks to Moscow’s tsarist-era protection from the Turks. Seeking to capitalize on this historic relationship, Russian state television recently broadcast a group of Greek locals hiding in a basement praising the Russian army, which had seized control of their suburban town. “The Russians haven’t killed anyone here,” one of the locals said. “They never shoot at civilians.” But testimony from a different bomb shelter suggests that historic sympathies will not outlive the bloodbath. Hiding from Russian bombardment, the president of the Federation of Greek Societies of Ukraine wrote an appeal that appeared in the Greek newspaper Skai, in which she listed off the unique Greek villages around Mariupol that were leveled by Russian airstrikes. She called Russia’s actions “overt and obvious terrorism,” as well as “the genocide of the Ukrainian people and the genocide of its Greeks of Ukraine by the Russian Federation.”

In the government-controlled parts of Luhansk, Moscow also expected to have a relatively easy time. Before the invasion, the area consistently offered electoral majorities for the pro-Russian Opposition Platform For Life party, led by Putin confidant and current fugitive Viktor Medvedchuk. It also has a long, thinly guarded border with Russia to the north and a large concentration of Russian and separatist forces stationed in the “People’s Republic” to its south. Both political culture and geography seemed to give Russia a built-in advantage.

At first, Moscow’s forces did find success. Troops poured across the borders, and in the sparsely populated north part of the province, small groups of Russian tanks and soldiers hold county governments with minimal force. This has helped the military as it attempts to encircle the urban conglomerate of Lysychansk, Rubizhne, and Severodonetsk, which has a combined population of roughly 300,000. Heavy artillery from the separatist region has blasted away at Ukrainian defenses to the south, nearly destroying several depressed coal mining towns in the process.

But once again, Russia’s plans ran into determined locals. Dogged Ukrainian soldiers have torched multiple tank columns at the entrances to Severodonetsk. Russian forces moved into Rubizhne, but they have taken heavy casualties and have been able to seize just half of the city. And even in fully conquered localities, there has been little of the outright collaboration that Russian forces counted on. Across towns in northern Luhansk, residents have flooded into the streets waving blue and yellow flags, blocked troop convoys, and chanted pro-Ukrainian slogans at Russian soldiers and their separatist proxies. In occupied Starobilsk, protesters even tore down and burned a separatist People’s Republic flag in full view of Russian occupying forces. Vadym Gaev, the mayor of Novopskov—an idyllic town near the Russian border—said that Russian soldiers had scoured the local government for a quisling who would run it and could only find one taker: a young woman who worked in the tax map office.

What has made conquering and occupying Luhansk so difficult? In short, Russian and separatist forces quickly encountered the region’s bedrock Ukrainian identity, laid by centuries of migration from the country’s central heartland. The main languages of northern Luhansk are Ukrainian and a surzhyk version of Ukrainian mixed with Russian. When protesters do speak straight Russian, it is often to lacerate occupiers with streams of obscenities. More recently, pro-Ukrainian refugees from the separatist-held parts of Luhansk have moved into government-controlled regions, strengthening the area’s support for Kyiv. And even locals sympathetic to Russia have seen how badly Moscow has botched socioeconomic management of the separatist territories over the past eight years, blunting any support they might have shown to Russia’s soldiers today.

Facing such unexpected resistance, Russian forces have resorted to the same tactic they used in Mariupol and elsewhere: indiscriminate violence. Russian ground forces and aircraft have pounded Severodonetsk and surrounding cities, killing scores of residents. The city was my home for the past six years, and through the screen of my smartphone, I have watched in horror as a familiar storefront, a children’s clinic, a church, and a neighbor’s house have been reduced to craters and blackened ruins.

Even in towns and cities that Russian forces have successfully occupied, they have continued their campaign of terror against the local population. Oleksii Artiuikh, the editor of the local news website Tribun, told me that he has received daily testimonies in Rubizhne of Russian soldiers allegedly ransacking apartments, stealing cars, and raping women. In Novopskov, occupying troops have opened fire on pro-Ukrainian protesters, wounding at least three. Russian forces have also been arresting protest organizers, interrogating residents, and disappearing activists.

That has not stopped Moscow from attempting to play up the benefits of occupation, which include forgiving utility debts and renewing rail connections with Russia, something the Kremlin has denied residents of separatist regions for the past eight years. But for the most part, the “benefits” are forced cultural changes and lower wages. Russian forces are ordering schools to speak only Russian and swap out the Ukrainian curriculum for the separatist one, which results in a diploma recognized only in Russia. They are changing street names back to the Soviet names that were used before Ukraine’s 2014 decommunization law. They are replacing the Ukrainian hryvnia with the sanctioned Russian ruble. One source in occupied Starobilsk told me that between the currency swap and pay cuts, doctors at the town’s hospital will see their salaries fall by two-thirds.

This is a dark forewarning of what might come. The northern Luhansk region is the largest swath of territory that Russia has occupied since the start of its February invasion, and its fate suggests that incorporation into the “Luhansk People’s Republic” means secret police terror, Russian chauvinism, Soviet cargo cultism, and economic degradation. It could even be on a scale worse than what residents of the breakaway regions have experienced thus far. Russia will now have a much larger occupied territory to administer than it did before, and it will need to do so with vastly reduced resources, thanks to crippling sanctions and canceled oil and gas contracts. It may well turn to more repression to maintain control and further curtail basic services. It is no wonder that so many Ukrainians have responded to occupation with defiance.

As the terrible destruction of Mariupol, Volnovakha, Severodonetsk, Rubizhne, and other eastern cities shows, Putin is determined to subjugate the Donbas even if that means slaughtering ostensibly pro-Russian eastern Ukrainians and torching what remains of Russia’s soft power in the region. He has staked his credibility on the Donbas and seems determined to rule its smoking ruins rather than admit the insane folly of his war of choice and retreat.

But the response from eastern Ukraine has been remarkable. Its military has mounted a far more robust defense than Russia could have imagined, and its residents have bravely protested their occupiers. The imperial narrative Moscow used to sell the war to the Russian public simply will not take root in Ukrainian soil. A group of Russian propagandists from a pro-Kremlin media outlet, for example, recently visited an occupied district of Mariupol and were shocked by the enraged responses of local Russian-speaking women to the sound of continuous Russian shelling. “Our Mariupol just blossomed, we built new roads, new parks,” they said. “Metallurgy was developing, and then you Russians came to ‘liberate’ us!”

The coming weeks will determine if Ukraine’s defiance and the West’s determination to gird it with arms are enough to stop Putin’s ruthless move on the Donbas. But it has already baldly exposed Russia’s revanchist fantasy that repressed Ukrainians were yearning for fraternal liberation. Whatever happens on the battlefield, Moscow has lost forever its cultural sway and beachhead in the bilingual, multinational, and yet now unambiguously Ukrainian east.

Noddaz
Noddaz GRM+ Memberand UberDork
4/2/22 1:38 p.m.

Even if the Russians win, there will be nothing left to rule.  But that may be the whole point. Destroy everything and put your own cronies in charge.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
4/2/22 2:10 p.m.

I think, in those regions, there is likely a very stark difference between the Ethnic Russians, and Russians who are now living there.  Apparently Russia has been seeding those area with (obviously loyalist) Russians for a while now.  They even distributed Russian passports to residents of those area which obviously makes it easier for the to claim it as "part of Russia".

Not so surprisingly, bombing the s#$t out of people can tend to turn them against you (see Blitz of London).

I do suspect though that Mariupol may be the sort of critical point for the Russians at this point.  I suspect if they manage to control it, they may then be much more interested in a treaty (which of course will give them Mariupol).  Not sure the residents of the city will agree, but I am sure the Russians can find some replacements that will.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
4/2/22 2:14 p.m.

On a similar point, I saw on the news the Russians commenting on the attack on the oil depot within Russia, and they seemed rather concerned by the fact that the attack was on a depot that is used to supply civilians (if that is even true), implying how inappropriate that is.....  uhm yeah...

stroker
stroker UberDork
4/2/22 5:06 p.m.

Wish we could figure out a way to drop a week's worth of MRE's on Mariupol...

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
4/2/22 9:35 p.m.

I have no expertise to share, so I've been following this thread without commenting. I came across something interesting which may be an example of the poorly structured Russian command,  with it's lack of experienced leadership from NCOs. 

Rule number one in trench construction is to dig in a zigzag. As I understand, this confines shrapnel from artillery, or small arms fire if the trench overrun to short sections. Some of it does this, but there's also straight sections too.

 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
4/3/22 12:07 a.m.

The zig zag also knocks the pressure wave down substantially, which I believe is the primary killer with artillery (if it's not air burst). Mythbusters did a good episode on it.

It is also pretty crazy how effective even a common consumer drone is (which is probably what this is).

I know there are anti-drone "guns" (basically jammers I believe), and if they don't have a lot now, I suspect the US army, and others looking to procure and equip a bunch of them.  It looks like they will very much be a thing from now on.

Another tidbit:

- It is guessed that one of the reasons for the Russian "withdrawal" is because the enlistment period for their conscripts is up.  You know, the one Putin assured everyone in Russia where not taking part in his little murder campaign.

Hungary Bill (Forum Supporter)
Hungary Bill (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
4/3/22 2:27 a.m.
Noddaz said:

Even if the Russians win, there will be nothing left to rule.  But that may be the whole point. Destroy everything and put your own cronies in charge.

They make a desert and call it peace...

stuart in mn
stuart in mn MegaDork
4/3/22 7:45 a.m.
aircooled said:

- It is guessed that one of the reasons for the Russian "withdrawal" is because the enlistment period for their conscripts is up.  You know, the one Putin assured everyone in Russia where not taking part in his little murder campaign.

Wouldn't he just extend their enlistment period?

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
4/3/22 10:27 a.m.

Probably has something to do with telling everyone they were not there, or not making things look desperate to the home crowd. There also made be special legal condition (e.g. war, general mobilization) that has to be met in order to do that! I don't really know.

He is effectively a dictator, but currently is the legally (!) elected president, with some schenangens involved of course, so keeping thing "within the law" is still important.  I am sure he could change most laws if needed, but that would not keep up appearances.

Anyone read or hear anything on extending conscription time of service in Russia?

Apexcarver
Apexcarver UltimaDork
4/3/22 12:16 p.m.

I think I saw something about calling up a lot of fresh ones. Just cycle a fresh batch in...

Noddaz
Noddaz GRM+ Memberand UberDork
4/3/22 8:37 p.m.
aircooled said:
*snip*

Another tidbit:

- It is guessed that one of the reasons for the Russian "withdrawal" is because the enlistment period for their conscripts is up.  You know, the one Putin assured everyone in Russia where not taking part in his little murder campaign.

No withdrawal comrade!  Withdrawal sounds too much like retreat!  Russians charge in another direction!

stroker
stroker UberDork
4/3/22 10:08 p.m.

What with all these reports of newly found executions and mass graves I think our buddy Vlad has just created a new Afghanistan on his doorstep...  

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