How would one become a hockey rink owner?

Operating the equipment/building is expensive, we just did some work installing some energy efficient equipment to help reduce the electric bill, think tens of thousands of $ per month. Refrigeration equipment (chillers, pumps, cooling tower fans, etc,) then AC/ dehumidifiers for the building to help keep the ice good and offices cool, lights on 18+ hours a day, then there is the employee cost, 2-4 people multiple shifts just for the ice, then front office people. Sorry Chris, I'd love to help you run your rink but I think you would make more money offering cheap oil changes in your drive way... So the building the rink is probably the easy and cheap part. Good luck though, let me know when it opens, I'll rent an hour, do I get the friends and family discount?

mtn wrote: One thing though, a smaller rink *CAN* have mite games, house league games, and practices (depending on how small). That does help out a lot.

But that really limits your market. And given that the choice for this community is a full sized rink or this new alternative- well.. Unless the cost to the consumer is that cheap, they would choose the full size rink.

There is competition to consider here.

mtn wrote:

SVreX wrote: In reply to mtn: Not nearly as big a PITA as a multi-million dollar debt without the cash flow to support it. Why do 8 year olds need an NHL grade rink to learn to skate on??

Safety. You need a quality ice surface. That is the only thing you really need. It is also the most difficult thing... You do need the ice surface (which means refrigeration unit and coils underneath, and a Zamboni) and you do need boards and lines on the ice (cheap and easy). Otherwise you have a pond that you can't actually schedule anything on.

If that were true, Rockefeller Center would not exist.

I learned to skate on a pond near my house, and sometimes we flooded the back yard with a hose. The grass coming through just made us skate better.

SVreX wrote:

mtn wrote:

SVreX wrote: In reply to mtn: Not nearly as big a PITA as a multi-million dollar debt without the cash flow to support it. Why do 8 year olds need an NHL grade rink to learn to skate on??

Safety. You need a quality ice surface. That is the only thing you really need. It is also the most difficult thing... You do need the ice surface (which means refrigeration unit and coils underneath, and a Zamboni) and you do need boards and lines on the ice (cheap and easy). Otherwise you have a pond that you can't actually schedule anything on.

If that were true, Rockefeller Center would not exist. I learned to skate on a pond near my house, and sometimes we flooded the back yard with a hose. The grass coming through just made us skate better.

???

Rockefeller is a safe surface with well maintained ice, coils and refrigeration unit, a zamboni... And when I said scheduling, you can't schedule hockey related things.

Don't get me wrong--I play on outdoor ponds and rinks all the time. I've thrown rocks onto the ice to see if it is strong enough. But I'd never schedule a practice or a game out there on any of them that are just kept frozen by the cold alone. (The community rink I helped build this past year was open for about 2 weeks and we'd have to wait until the day of to know if it would be open or not. In Chicago.)

In reply to mtn:

My point was an outdoor rink is feasible, and cheaper than an indoor rink.

In reply to SVreX:

Having skated at 30Rock, it's a really good surface. Better than the sheets I grew up playing on.

But cracks and bad ice is not a good thing to make people try to play hockey on.

Again, this isn't a new rink to a community- it's an alternative rink. So to make any money, it has to be as good or better than the one. Not many organized groups want to play outside.

In reply to alfadriver:

Not necessarily.

If an outdoor rink could be offered at $150 per hour instead of $230, it would be able to win some business whether or not it was "better".

Bottom line- it's ridiculously expensive and probably not financially feasible.

But a business plan that started as an outdoor rink with the intention of building the business then developing into an indoor rink over time MIGHT have a little traction, if you could keep the operating costs low enough to attract business. All of the ice making and maintenance equipment could be reused later.

SVrEX, there is an outdoor rink in my community. It really doesn't do all that well financially. Ice time there is more expensive than the indoor rinks, and it isn't better than the indoor rinks. Teams play there about 1-2 times a year because it is cool, 1-2 times a year.

They make money with public skating.

Question from someone that doesn't know anything about hockey.

How about roller hockey on basketball rings etc ?

Growing up that's what we had. I'm sure the skating is different but the rules are about the same.

Probably easier to find a venue.

Nothing quite the same as ice hockey.

imgon wrote: Operating the equipment/building is expensive, we just did some work installing some energy efficient equipment to help reduce the electric bill, think tens of thousands of $ per month. Refrigeration equipment (chillers, pumps, cooling tower fans, etc,) then AC/ dehumidifiers for the building to help keep the ice good and offices cool, lights on 18+ hours a day, then there is the employee cost, 2-4 people multiple shifts just for the ice, then front office people. Sorry Chris, I'd love to help you run your rink but I think you would make more money offering cheap oil changes in your drive way... So the building the rink is probably the easy and cheap part. Good luck though, let me know when it opens, I'll rent an hour, do I get the friends and family discount?

What if I offered discount oil changes at the new rink? Are you in now, Chuck?

A great part of my childhood was a City Park that had an outdoor skating rink less than a mile from my house.
Seems that it is still in business (and also supported by the municipality). Website shows that they run inline skate, hockey leagues for the warm months.

SVreX wrote: In reply to alfadriver: Not necessarily. If an outdoor rink could be offered at $150 per hour instead of $230, it would be able to win some business whether or not it was "better". Bottom line- it's ridiculously expensive and probably not financially feasible. But a business plan that started as an outdoor rink with the intention of building the business then developing into an indoor rink over time MIGHT have a little traction, if you could keep the operating costs low enough to attract business. All of the ice making and maintenance equipment could be reused later.

Having played a lot of hockey both indoors and out, the price difference would have to be a LOT more than that for a parent to not be indoors. Plus not have to deal with snow/rain on the surface.

I don't see anyone realistically wanting to play a season of organized hockey outside when there's a good inside option for STILL a reasonable price. $230 vs. $150 is a lot for one person. It's not when it's a team. Or two.

Man, this is a tough one.

Growing up in Hingham, MA, we had Pilgrim Arena in town. That's where all our hockey teams played, and our town is definitely a hockey town. We've had multiple pro players come from our town (Tony Amonte, Brian Boyle, and more), and that arena is still there and cranking. All the other surrounding towns seem to have rinks as well.

I now live in Middleboro, MA, and I don't think they even have a hockey program! It's all about football and baseball here. There's definitely no rink here.

My point is, you are in Carver, and aside from Plymouth, what other area towns would want/need a rink that don't already go to Plymouth? The area we live in is growing, but is anyone down here going to want to play hockey? You'll need to figure that out, as well as get friendly with multiple towns and their selectmen/governing councils.

I believe you need to look beyond the local market to have any hope of being financially viable.

NESC in Marlborough has 1 studio rink, 6 full sheets and is adding 2 more full sheets.

2 new sheets

Older article

I don't know what they charge for ice time. My oldest son's bantam team is in the Valley League and plays their home games at NESC, but practice at the DCR/FMC rinks in Worcester and Auburn.

Maybe start small and teach skills?

These guys built two small rinks in an empty building in an industrial park. They teach lessons and host skating parties. The Zamboni is a propane burning tractor.

Link to photos that don't really show much

alfadriver wrote:

SVreX wrote: In reply to alfadriver: Not necessarily. If an outdoor rink could be offered at $150 per hour instead of $230, it would be able to win some business whether or not it was "better". Bottom line- it's ridiculously expensive and probably not financially feasible. But a business plan that started as an outdoor rink with the intention of building the business then developing into an indoor rink over time MIGHT have a little traction, if you could keep the operating costs low enough to attract business. All of the ice making and maintenance equipment could be reused later.

Having played a lot of hockey both indoors and out, the price difference would have to be a LOT more than that for a parent to not be indoors. Plus not have to deal with snow/rain on the surface. I don't see anyone realistically wanting to play a season of organized hockey outside when there's a good inside option for STILL a reasonable price. $230 vs. $150 is a lot for one person. It's not when it's a team. Or two.

Right.

But $1300 is absurdly high for a family, perhaps twice that if they have 2 kids playing. I've had 4 kids playing youth sports at once. $5200 for a season? No way.

I don't know crap about hockey. I live in baseball territory. We have kids using the front lawns of local manufacturing plants as practice fields in 110* heat, chuckholes and all.

I have no disagreement that an indoor rink is better. I am simply suggesting that owning a rink is cost prohibitive, and offering a less expensive option may be a more viable business model.

Well, I think that the idea of an ICE rink has fairly well run its course.

Now, talking about Hockey Rinks: You can take some of the strain off the single facility by having practices on Synthetic Ice. Look up KwikRink. There you can probably get a decent business plan with a reasonable return on investment. It is a hard plastic that is sprayed with silicone. One push gets you about 1/3 of the glide as on ice. Great for training. It skates pretty true; the one difficult thing is stopping isn't quite right, but it is pretty close. I recommend it. Because it is slower, you don't need near as much space. Your zamboni is a vaccuum and a bottle of silicone spray. Heat it or cool it as you would any commercial building.

In reply to SVreX:

$1300 is expensive, and with 2 kids playing its definitely requires some dedication, on the part of the parents as well as the players. It requires planning and budgeting for it on a yearly basis.

But for the 8 month season where the kids are on the ice 4 times a week (3 practices and 1 game) the cost isn't outrageous for the amount of ice time they get.

My kids love playing hockey and are excited to go to practice and games, are always asking grandparents to come watch, and love the sport. I'd rather spend the money for them to be active and play hockey than buying the latest video game system or other toy. They learn alot more than just skating, and the non-hockey lessons (sportsmanship, hard work, team building) will benefit them for the rest of their life.

If you aren't involved in the sport (hockey or pick any other one as an example), then I can see how it would seem like people that pay that are nuts. For example, I'm sure there are people (non-motorsports folks) that would say the cost of the Challenge (participation as well as travel and other related costs) is outrageous for a weekend, but for the participants its just the cost of doing what they enjoy and they budget for it.

I grew up skating on natural ice that lasted all winter. But hey, I lived in Canada. The surface was definitely sketchy at time - not grass, but deep cracks. Get your skate caught in one of those, you're going down.

We have a rink here in Grand Junction. It took years to get it built, long enough that all the batteries in the Zamboni donated by a local construction company died before the rink was done. Then the refrigeration system wasn't filled with the correct anti-corrosion mixture so it needed $500k of work a couple of years later. Which, of course, shut it down until someone else came in with a bunch of money.

If I was looking to bring a rink to the area, I'd be talking to the local college to see if they could use it. Work out a partnership where they bring some money in exchange for discounted/free rink time in the future. I'd also definitely make it regulation NHL size to attract the largest possible audience.

Now you are talking Chris, I'm in! Put a quick lube/brake repair/tire shop place off the back end of the rink. The parents can get the car fixed while the kids are playing. Maybe add a detail shop too. We can get Andrew to quit his job again and come work for us. In the off season we could do ice go cart racing leagues. Start writing the business plan.

I think an ice or roller skatinng rink is a great way to lose money.

It seems the owner has to devote their life to it for small/no financial reward.

We actually have two rinks in Louisville. The larger is newer has two surfaces in one and is nice. Other is older.

Unique idea:

Our local swim club has an outdoor pool that gets covered every winter. I've seen similar covers on tennis courts.

Would something like this work to get the cost down?

http://www.clearspan.com/industries/indoor-tennis-facilities/

LINK

First step would be to go looking for grant opportunities for building such things. Lots of angles where you run a "profit free" organization. Does not mean that management does not get paid

Just tossing a number out there off the top of my head, but I don't see you building anindoor rink for less than 5 million.

Lots of communities have done this and there is good material on line to be found.

http://www.arenawatch.org/Dloads/1%20-%20How%20to%20Build%20an%20Ice%20Arena%20or%20Bust.pdf

Construction cost can be reduced a little if the ice surface is not on concrete. I've played in an arena where the refrigeration system was covered by a compacted sand base.That was done to save cost. I don't know if there is a downside to it though.It does sound a little odd when you skate on it.

There is a rink in North Charleston, SC in a building that used to be a Lowe's (I think - some sort of big box retail).

They modified the footings and roof structure and removed a row of columns and fit the rink in between (added some new trusses and strengthened the columns carrying them).

Not cheap, but cheaper than building new I guess. Pretty crafty way to re-use an old unused retail building.