I hate mechanics

That's exactly what I did - found a father-son shop that are the nicest people you'd ever want to meet. Dead-honest, and know their stuff.

ShadowSix wrote: So this is pretty self-serving (I part-own a two-man shop with my brother, I have never taken an impact to a drain plug), but maybe you all don't have good luck with dealerships and the big chains because they have enough marketing and name recognition not to worry about pissing off a few customers here and there. I suggest you ask around (local club members, any blue-collar-ish old dudes you know) and find an independent shop with a good reputation. The guys at Mel's garage or Rich's Auto Service either are or work directly for the owner and these guys can't afford the advertising blitz to paper over a bad local reputation.

Yup. My "trusted ally" (as David described such shops in his column in the magazine last year) is an indie VW shop run by an old SCCA buddy & his son.

Hanging around with them over the last 15yrs, all I have to add is that nobody hates a dishonest/unskilled mechanic more than an honest/skilled one.

Full disclosure: I'm a stinking parts changer. I stink at diagnosis, especially on electrical stuff. At least I've never tried to pass myself off as a professional..

Lesley wrote: I once had a dealership strip the lug nuts on my dakota... and then claim them on the invoice (under warranty).

bet it was legit. Thost stupid sheet metal caps they put on lug nuts gave mechanics fits (myself included). One side of the hex (we're talking only about that cap now, not the lug nut) would break. Now that cap come off. The lug nut is not a 3/4" or a 19 mm. It's something like a 18.25mm or 11.5/16". They did the right thing.

DrBoost wrote:

Lesley wrote: I once had a dealership strip the lug nuts on my dakota... and then claim them on the invoice (under warranty).

bet it was legit. Thost stupid sheet metal caps they put on lug nuts gave mechanics fits (myself included). One side of the hex (we're talking only about that cap now, not the lug nut) would break. Now that cap come off. The lug nut is not a 3/4" or a 19 mm. It's something like a 18.25mm or 11.5/16". They did the right thing.

BTDT. My 18mm socket fit fine after the cap comes off. If the cap came off while I was taking them off and were not split/damaged, I put some "miracle" black RTV on the lug, stuck the cap back on, and went on my way.

In September I had my Legacy go into the shop for a new shortblock which I chalked up to the previous owner not taking care of oil changes like they should have. I had bought the car 6 weeks earlier with 62k miles. After cutting a check for $3,000 the work started and two weeks later I had my car back. At least for a couple days anyway.

Then the check engine light came on. They suggested I bring it back, which I did. Three days later I had the car back. hooray! "Probably just some oil sludge, we flushed the oil system" they said. Seems weird to have sludge in a new engine but hey, maybe I'm an idiot.

Then the check engine light came on again, for the same issue it had just been into the shop for. They suggested I bring it back, which I did. Couple days later I had the car back and was happy as I could be. "We cleaned out he oil passages in the heads" hey that sounds pretty good.

Like clockwork, a couple days later the check engine light comes on, for the SAME ISSUE. "We installed a new oil control valve" Awesome, that sounds like a real solution. This time I told them they were to drive the car long enough to ensure the light wasn't going to come on again. Guess what? It came back! They kept it another couple days and FINALLY fixed the issue (which happened to be exactly what I told them it was, incorrectly installed camshaft sprocket) So at this point the car has been to the dealership for the same issue THREE times and 10 days. It's a two hour round-trip to the dealership so we're up to 6 hours of driving for me.

But wait, there's more! A couple weeks later the car starts misfiring badly so it got towed to the dealership. The issue? The technician hadn't connected the coil pack all the way, so the plug had wiggled off. OK fine, it got fixed just give me back my car and let me move on. Another two days without my car.

A couple weeks later I get a code for a faulty TGV sensor. Guess what, the plug had wiggled loose. So either Subaru makes electrical connections that just fall apart a lot or the technician that worked on the car did a lousy job and simply slapped things together as quickly as he could so he could work on the next car and make a buck.

A month later, I bring the car to another Subaru dealership for an oil change. Not only did I get an excellent oil change, but I also got a laundry list of issues with the car that shouldn't exist on a vehicle with a NEW ENGINE.

First, the PCV system wasn't attached at all, it's a simple hose and valve, much like a coil pack plug or a TGV sensor would be. Second, most of the clips holding the engine cover and plastic under tray were completely missing. Third, a bolt and nut holding the transmission onto the engine, GONE. Fourth, an oil leak from the right-rear part of the engine. ON A NEW ENGINE.

I can't understand the mentality of rushing through things and not doing a good and complete job, especially given the amount of money spent.

wbjones wrote:

novaderrik wrote: they like to be called "Technicians" these days..

who ? the hacks or the mechanics ?

Those of us that have years and years of training and experience under our belts. The ones that can explain the nuances between the different communication networks used on today's cars. The guy that has no problem staying late, on his anniversary to get your car back on the road by welding some part back together that nobody in town has available, with nothing in return other than stupid flat-rate pay. The guy that hears stories like this and wonders how it is that everyone seems to think this is the norm.

Ranger50 wrote:

DrBoost wrote:

Lesley wrote: I once had a dealership strip the lug nuts on my dakota... and then claim them on the invoice (under warranty).

bet it was legit. Thost stupid sheet metal caps they put on lug nuts gave mechanics fits (myself included). One side of the hex (we're talking only about that cap now, not the lug nut) would break. Now that cap come off. The lug nut is not a 3/4" or a 19 mm. It's something like a 18.25mm or 11.5/16". They did the right thing.

BTDT. My 18mm socket fit fine after the cap comes off. If the cap came off while I was taking them off and were not split/damaged, I put some "miracle" black RTV on the lug, stuck the cap back on, and went on my way.

Yeah you can get them off, but if the car is under warranty I'd warranty them for the customer. See, this guy is being derided for unecessary warranty work but if he didn't do it we'd be reading "this hack parts hanging monkey stripped my lug nuts and didn't even replace them".

DaveEstey wrote: I can't understand the mentality of rushing through things and not doing a good and complete job, especially given the amount of money spent.

This isn't an issue of rushing the job. This guy is a buggar-eatin-moron. You could have given him a month do to the initial swap and you'd have the same issues. This is the guy that gives real mecahnics a bad name. This was at a dealer??? I'd be on the phone with Subie and making some very loud but polite noise. The thing is, what's gong to be happening a year or more down the road?

DrBoost wrote: Yeah you can get them off, but if the car is under warranty I'd warranty them for the customer. See, this guy is being derided for unecessary warranty work but if he didn't do it we'd be reading "this hack parts hanging monkey stripped my lug nuts and didn't even replace them".

Agreed. Most of the time I used the RTV was for the "one timers" that were already out of warranty. But then again, you have to watch over your shoulder for the service manager ready to ream your ass over replacing it or the ranting and raving customer ready to rip your head off for being a mouthbreathing "hack" for replacing that part too.

But I also would say, I would write down the reason on the RO for the replacement. That way it isn't MY fault for the crappy part replacement and subsequent not told story by the service writer. I know LOTS of people who can't seem to grasp that idea. It is always better to write an in-depth novel, then a summation and then get called out on the repair. Every part should be justifiable on the RO with written down tech notes.

DrBoost wrote:

DaveEstey wrote: I can't understand the mentality of rushing through things and not doing a good and complete job, especially given the amount of money spent.

This isn't an issue of rushing the job. This guy is a buggar-eatin-moron. You could have given him a month do to the initial swap and you'd have the same issues. This is the guy that gives real mecahnics a bad name. This was at a dealer??? I'd be on the phone with Subie and making some very loud but polite noise. The thing is, what's gong to be happening a year or more down the road?

I'll paraphrase John Wooden: "If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when do you think you will have time to do it a second time?"

ZOO wrote: I'll paraphrase John Wooden: "If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when do you think you will have time to do it a second time?"

There's never time to do it right, but there's always time to do it over.

Back in the day, I was classed as an "A" mechanic. Which then meant that I could fix anything on the car. Engine transmission, axle. Adjust windows and doors. find electrical shorts. rebuild carburetors, alternators, starters. And on and on.

On the lug nut thing. Dealer techs overtightened them twice on my KJ . While "discussing" this with the ASE certified master tech. He argued I was using the wrong size socket. 3/4" instead of 19 mm. I asked him what was the difference. He stammered trying to come up with an answer. I then politely told him that the lugs were SAE not metric.So I went home and retorqued all of them, with my 3/4" socket. I got fed up with the caps coming off, so I relaced all of the nuts with non capped ones.

DaveEstey wrote: I can't understand the mentality of rushing through things and not doing a good and complete job, especially given the amount of money spent.

I can. When you are being paid, let's say 8hrs, for R&R of an engine plus the time to get it running, and it takes 10.... you have given up 2hrs of available pay for FREE. I, personally, NEVER wanted to see a complete engine job every again except for oil changes and tire rotations. So I spent the extra time, even though it was free, to make it right.

Now what I believe happened in your case, is this hack padded the job sheet with the other repairs for back flag he will get for the berkeley up he made in the first place.

Also, for what you pay to have repairs done, expect the guy doing the work to get at MOST 30% of the labor rate. Most of the time, it's way less. And that is billable hours, or flat rate hours, not just standing around picking your nose hours, like every other job out there.

Brian

Ranger50 wrote:

DrBoost wrote: Yeah you can get them off, but if the car is under warranty I'd warranty them for the customer. See, this guy is being derided for unecessary warranty work but if he didn't do it we'd be reading "this hack parts hanging monkey stripped my lug nuts and didn't even replace them".

It is always better to write an in-depth novel, then a summation and then get called out on the repair. Every part should be justifiable on the RO with written down tech notes.

Amen brother! The best auto-tech teacher I had asked us (entry-level class) "what's the most important tool in your tool box. A few lug nuts said "hammer" or "paint can". I thought I was going to show my in-depth wisdom and answered "multi meter". He said "Nope, your pencil" then went on to explain what you are saying. That has stuck with me all these years and when I was teaching automotive technology I used that with every class I had. The only wiser words ever spoken? Miata.

I went to a FriedStones store for replacement tires for my truck (the OEM tires were okay, so I wanted the exact replacement). The tech installed 2 or the 4 tires I bought and who knows what happened on the other 2. I went back when I discovered I had been cheated and the manager told me the tech had been fired in the interim.

After that, I went to an "independent" shop that a co-worker recommended. They do great work, stand behind everything, and while their prices are a bit higher than the "chains" I like that I am supporting a family business that wants me as a customer.

Usually, if the business has "iffy" techs, it's because MANAGEMENT is also a bit "iffy".

integraguy wrote: Usually, if the business has "iffy" techs, it's because MANAGEMENT is also a bit "iffy".

Bingo.

My de facto brother-in-law is the local NTB guru: corporate sends him to an underperforming store and he kicks some asses to get the shop into shape. To watch his results as he moves into a new store is pretty damned impressive: he'll go into the worst store in the area and have them turned around 180° in the space of a year.

At any of the big chain shops, bad work in the bays is almost always a result of sloppy, lackadaisical management.

my local indi shop has always gotten me any tire I've wanted and he's consistently equaled / beaten Tire Racks prices .... (that's total price vs pre-shipping added prices) ... his front end guy is the club prez of our a-x club..