Is Mini really the only one left?

brad131a4 (Forum Supporter) said:

I see no new car purchases ever after 2024. 

I never buy new cars, but my cutoff date is probably around 2015. There's too much unnecessary tech and nanny aids. Styling has been dead for at least a decade. Everything is a jellybean. While the drivetrains can go 300,000 miles all of the ancilliary 'features' are expensive failure points.  I've become wholly disinterested in modern vehicles.

Yup, get off my lawn. If the younger generation wants a tech-laden bubble with a massive ugly plastic grille, more power to them. As long as I can get parts for my older stuff, that's what I'll drive. And pocket all the money it would cost to buy one of the overpriced modern vehicles.

Dissenting opinion - the low point in cars was actually around the 2010's and they're (generally) getting better now.

Peak visceral driving enjoyment occurred in the late 90's through early '00's. The last of the analog cars. Build quality and engine power was up, you got nice features like airbags, ABS, (defeatable) traction control, and crumple zones. I love driving my S2000. I love that there is a cable running directly from my foot to the throttle. It feels simultaneously modern and simple.

The 2010's introduced a lot of the new features that people are ranting about. Because they were new, they weren't quite executed well yet. The engine management is all electronic, but the technology was new, and they hadn't quite dialed in how to get it to feel right. EV's were coming on the market, but it was mostly just early Tesla's with the body gaps of a 90's Korean car.

Now, manufacturers are figuring out how to properly integrate the features they started introducing in the late '10's. We're seeing EV's come out at reasonable prices with good build quality from major manufacturers. The future looks pretty brite.

The only trend that I *hate* and want to see DIAF are giant infotainment touch-screens for controlling everything. Give me real buttons and dials that stay in one place, have one function, I can feel without looking, and give me some kind of tactile feedback to know that I've pressed them. Touch screens are fine for some things, but for basic radio and climate control that I will be operating while driving - buttons and dials please.

Edit: one other common design choice I hate is how distance sensors are implemented in such a way that you can't have a third party replace the windshield - it *has* to be an OEM windshiled replaced by a dealer or brand mechanic who is capable of recalibrating the sensors. Turning a very common repair from a few hundred dollars to a few thousand.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Tom Suddard said:

I might regret posting this but...

I don't think two-door hatchbacks solve any problems. The doors are big and annoying to open in tight parking lots, and access to the back seat sucks. If you're going to have a fast, impractical coupe, what's with the heavy hatch? And if you're going to have a practical hatch, what's with the impractical lack of rear doors? 

Most vehicles are single occupant, though.

That's true. What's more impractical than a big SUV, or even worse, a massive 4dr pickup with one occupant? And speaking of which, in the land of the massive vehicles, where are you finding these parking lots that are tight for a subcompact car? 
I did just have occasion to measure the doors on my two hatches, one a 2dr, the other 4, and the difference was a whopping 10%. Hardly big and, I would bet not any bigger than either the front or rear doors of a modern 4dr SUV or truck, which will also be a significantly wider vehicle 

FWIW, for our latest Civic Si, we did go with four doors over two doors. 

On a car available as both there is rarely a reason not to choose the 4dr.  

In reply to Beer Baron :

I saw a presentation from a major automotive supplier and got a demo on applying this kind of tech to cars. I am kind of surprised it hasnt really been implemented yet.

https://www.hy-line-group.com/de-en/products/display-touch/haptic-touch

It was years ago and the tech was in its infancy, but it seemed really promising. They were able to key the vibration/feedback such that you could "feel" a button by dragging your finger across the screen. 

There have been certain advancements where the early generations implementations have left much to be desired.  Earlier throttle by wire cars are most certainly one of them. Ensuring that nannies can be totally shut off by the driver is another factor. The thing I will say is that the newer throttle by wire is actually pretty good. I appreciate having the choice for driver aids. Hey, very few performance car guys liked ABS when it first came out, but we learned to love it when it was refined because of increased performance and not flatspotting tires.  I appreciate ABS/TCS/ASM for day to day driving in the sense that its a safety net. I also appreciate being able to turn off TCS/ASM when I want to have fun. I got lanekeep assist on my maverick and I am finding that I really like having it for the day to day get up early and drive kids to school type of driving.  Living around DC, I would have a real appreciation for traffic jam assist to be able to relax a bit more in stop and go traffic. 

That said, I do still love the driving experience of my '97 mustang (ABS only), and my '61 Bugeye (what creature comforts?) and for racing, I really really appriciate my open wheel racecar.  So really, when it comes down to it, horses for courses. A great barrel racing pony wont make a great cross country travel horse...  

In reply to ProDarwin:  

In college I had a 1986 E30 BMW, it was a 4 door. I never really found myself wishing it as a 2 door. Even if you didnt regularly put passengers back there, it was just way easier to access than reaching back.  

I am surprised that the RX8 solution didnt catch on more in sporty cars. 

FTFY

On a car available as both there is rarely a reason to choose the 4dr.  

JG Pasterjak said:

Counterpoint

Literally zero issues with this.

Thank you.
 

Although in this case, 89>90.

In reply to Woody (Forum Supportum) :

Oh, yeah, if being picking, you want an ’89.

The problem with 2-door cars is that some parents (like mine did) insist upon making their kids get into the back seat, which is nothing but a robust pain in the a$$.  From about the time I was capable of thinking rationally, I developed a strong aversion to 4-seat, 2-door cars.  If the car has seating for 4, it darn well better have 4 doors.  My first new car, as a young single guy, was a 4-door sedan.  The 2-door variant was available, but never considered on principle.

You wanna make a 2-door car?  You give it two, and only two seats.

johndej said:

Two relatively opposite but related new options for 2 door hatch

 

Umm, that's a 4-door Toyota Prius.

MyMiatas said:

How about this?

You'd have to really stretch your imagination to consider that a 2-door hatchback! 

1988RedT2 said:

The problem with 2-door cars is that some parents (like mine did) insist upon making their kids get into the back seat, which is nothing but a robust pain in the a$$.  From about the time I was capable of thinking rationally, I developed a strong aversion to 4-seat, 2-door cars.  If the car has seating for 4, it darn well better have 4 doors.  My first new car, as a young single guy, was a 4-door sedan.  The 2-door variant was available, but never considered on principle.

You wanna make a 2-door car?  You give it two, and only two seats.

 

As a kid, my mom had nothing but two door cars.

As an adult, I spent a lot of time hanging out with friends and invariably rode backseat in a ZX2, which was really comfortable back there and easy to get in and out of.

Everybody has their opinions but I never minded the back seat of a two door.

My folks had a BMW 1600-2 and a Audi 100LS when I was growing up. I never minded getting in the rear seat, but those cars had accessible rear seats that were also adult sized. Most 2 door cars today, the rear seats are an afterthought. My 2006 Mustang has seats that are essentially useless, which was not the case in 1960s Mustangs.