Some of you have seen my current hole in the water thread:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/help-me-buy-a-hole-in-the-water-or-not/186470/page1/
and with a recent power plant upgrade I had no plans to upgrade the boat any time soon. However, a family friend sort of father in law is looking to sell his boat and has mentioned it to me seriously. It is a Sea Ark BX220, a 22' aluminum bay boat.
Not the specific boat in question, but what a BX220 might look like:
It's in North Carolina so I can't just hook up and try it out. But I'm curious about towing - and especially launching/retrieving - it with the minivan, a 2016 Grand Caravan. The GC is rated to tow 3600lbs and the Sea Ark is on a dual axle aluminum trailer with surge brakes. My current boat is a 16' Starcraft Supersport aluminum boat and the Caravan tows, launches, and retrieves it without any drama at all. The Supersport is probably around 1500-1800lbs plus the trailer which is dinky. The Sea Ark is 1800lbs plus the motor (150hp Honda, so about 480lbs) and the trailer is obviously much more beefy. I'm seeing about 900lbs for a dual axle aluminum trailer online. That makes total towed weight about 3,200lbs plus gear. Am I going to be able to yank this thing out of the water with the Caravan or is a tow vehicle in my future? I do have a 1970 Ford F250 that would tow and retrieve it easily but that can't haul my family of four.
Perhaps a road trip is in order, to try it out in North Carolina, but part of me says, just buy it and if it doesn't work with the Caravan, get something that can handle it. That's the devil sitting on my left shoulder.
In reply to dculberson :
The title of this instantly made me think of this movie
Following... because I also have a GC and have wondered about its ability to launch a small boat.
That's a nice boat.
FWD or AWD minivan?
All the ramps I have launched from have been at least a little bit different. Some have been interesting. I'd be concerned that a FWD minivan could have trouble pulling that boat out in at least some circumstances.
The van is FWD, and I do wonder about the traction once you add that much weight.
@Ian F: if you're talking small like 16' aluminum boat, I have had no drama at all launching ours. I'm pretty careful and the ramp we usually use has ridges in the concrete, but I've had no tire slip or white knuckle moments at all.
In reply to dculberson :
Tongue weight will be relevant, particularly if you don't use a weight-distributing hitch.
So, will the new boat/trailer/et-al be about 1,000 more pounds towed?
If yes, can you load 1,000 lbs of assorted crap into your current boat and go out for a little drive? The drive could just be going up the hill on the Culberson Estate?
If that goes well, take the load of crap to your favorite boat ramp for some back/forward exercise even if that means not going so deep as to touch the water.
You might try that upward pull on a rainy day to simulate gaining traction on a wet boat ramp.
A boat like that is great for fishing, but not so great for a leisurely day on the water.
As others have said, the tongue weight may make getting back up a slick, algae covered ramp with FWD a bit challenging.
Also, when calculating weight, make sure you're figuring in the weight of fuel, gear, coolers, etc and consider the fully laden towing and GVWs the van is rated for.
mtn
MegaDork
1/19/23 4:37 p.m.
Aluminum Bay Boat basically means that the hull itself is just an aluminium Jon boat. Personally, if I lived where you live and were considering an upgrade, I would go with a Deep V hull for a couple of reasons - first, to open up my chances of fishing Erie, and second, to reduce chances of a kid going overboard - this is speaking as someone who has gone overboard on a bass boat.
This is not to say that the boat can't take Erie, but the Great Lakes can get some funky chop that would make it uncomfortable with that hull. And, if your fishing evolves to include trolling (not using the trolling motor, but trolling as the technique), this is not a great setup for that. Not impossible, but not the best.
I'm not personally a fan of that kind of center console layout with more than 3 people. Just something to consider, I prefer a traditional bowrider - but this is really a personal preference.
Things that you'll like better in this boat though? Storage. Huge amounts of storage. Size. It is big compared to what you're in, you'll have a lot of room. It is also new - this isn't a huge deal except you're not fixing E36 M3 that was fixed in the 70s. The jump seats are awesome, huge casting decks.... As a casting platform, it is pretty damn good.
The caravan can handle it. With the caravan on a ramp with any boat, I would be sure to use the emergency brake, let off the brake, then back on the brake before shifting. With this one, I may also consider wheel chocks on the ramp and accelerated transmission fluid changes. At the end of the day you should be OK, but may find yourself wanting a better towpig.
I'll echo John, we looked at a V6 Caravan many moons ago for the family sled and ended up with an Explorer due to the need to tow a boat occasionally. At that time the towing capacity for the Caravan was 3,500 pounds and a V6 Explorer with 4WD was 5,000 pounds. You need to factor the weight of passengers and gear along with the boat, trailer, engine and fuel in the boat. For short local trips that would be fine but long sustained highway speeds would not be good. I know the Explorers I've had have had transmission coolers included in the factory tow package for example.
If the trailer has surge brakes that is a plus as the "go" usually isn't a problem but stopping with all that extra weight absolutely can be. I no longer tow our larger 22 foot boat but still tow a '17 foot Boston Whaler spring and fall about 150 miles each way. The whole rig is probably in the 3,000 pound range when factoring in the boat, motor, trailer and fuel and pulled by a 2017 Explorer with a 290 ish HP V6 and a 5,000 pound tow rating. I hardly notice it until it's time to stop; that's when I realize it's behind me but brakes on smaller trailers aren't typically a thing. The Explorer stops it just fine but you notice.
In the past towing the big boat the surge brakes on the trailer were quite powerful, once you started braking and the load shifted forward on the tongue pivot enough to engage the trailer brakes they basically stopped the whole rig without having to apply any more effort on the tow vehicle brakes. Even with the V6's in the older Explorers it would pull the larger boat out of the water on a dirt ramp with no drama and would maintain 55-65 on the highway depending on traffic. This was a twice a year event only, if I had been doing it more frequently with the large boat it would have been time for a full size pick up.
In reply to mtn :
I will concur that this is not a boat for Lake Erie. Maybe Sandusky Bay on an assured clear day but not Lake Erie like launching from Port Clinton, Marblehead, Huron or Vermilion. Would be fine for inland reservoir lakes like Alum, Delaware, Buckeye but with the seating shortcomings mentioned.
In reply to mtn :
thanks everyone for the input and mtn especially those are great points. One of my attractions to a larger boat is more people on the boat and if >3 is a problem on a center console then that's not great. And I did notice it was pretty "flat" but didn't think about the effect on dealing with chop and the like. Lots to think about. Thanks again everyone!
The only comment I have is that I lived next to a boat launch for a couple of years and it was pretty common for Fwd mini-vans to struggle pulling boats out. More than once I got tired of hearing them spinning their tires and I went out and pulled them out with my truck.
The BX220 is really a two person calm water boat. Three people on board and it gets real crowded. Its a serious fishing boat not well suited for family fun.
There should be a plate inside stating the Coast Guard rating for number of folks/weight allowed.
In reply to Purple Frog (Forum Supporter) :
The data plate lists the person capacity as 8.
One comment I can make about tongue weight with a Grand Caravan - very dependent on how many people and cargo are in the van. If lightly loaded, it can handle some surprisingly significant tongue weight. I hung a DRZ400 off the back of mine (using an aluminum H-F moto carrrier) and the van drove like it wasn't there, but it was also just me, a mtn bike some riding gear and a disassembled 2nd DRZ400 inside the van. Compared to what the van is designed to carry (7-8 adults + luggage), I wasn't even close to overloading the van.
I won't comment on the style of boat. You'll figure that part out, and maybe it's exactly what you want.
My main concern would be (as was mentioned) boat ramp traction. My cousin has a 16' teeny little camper with a WD hitch that he hauls behind his Caravan. I don't know what it's tongue weight is, nor do I know how he sets up the WD hitch, but uphill traction is non-existent. Getting into the campground where we frequently camp is a careful negotiation of enough speed to make it up the hill and slow enough to negotiate the turn. Promptly followed by putting everything back in the cabinets and drawers that fell out
I'm sure if you have a heavily-grooved concrete ramp with a gentle slope, it won't be an issue, but I would hate for you to suddenly crave going to another lake where you can't make it happen with your current equipment.
Two things that can help: A front hitch. Not only is it slicker than snot for launching a boat, it adds weight to the traction wheels. The other thing is to jackknife the van at the same time the trailer is in the water just right. That way when you start pulling, you're generating forward motion before the full weight is tugging backwards. By the time you have the full pulling weight on the ball, you're already moving forward at 5 mph. Think of it like a simulated tow strap. You're storing energy in the motion of the van before the trailer moves much.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
Interesting idea, but I'm not sure it's realistic.
At the public boat ramps near me along the Delaware River, there is often a line to launch/retrieve. I can't imagine how well stopping in the middle of the process to go from a rear to a front ball would go over... Never mind the ramps aren't set up to allow for the tow vehicle to make that U-turn. At one of the ramps, the rigging area is about 1/4 mile from the ramp.
(both ramps are part of my local bike riding loop, so I watch boats get launched a lot).
In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :
I'm sure some ramps it might be difficult, but at busy ramps, I just swap in the parking lot and then get in the queue already hitched to the front.
Every single one of my trucks (except the current van... at least not yet) have had front hitches. They're brilliant. Life-changing. Dad's trucks both have front hitches. I already bought the stuff to make one for the van, although common trucks have aftermarket bolt-on solutions.
The trailer parking to the ramp at "my" lake is probably over 1/4 mile, and most of us have front hitches. It's not like you only hitch it to the front to put it in the water, it's just the way we move trailers around as a daily method. As in... 25 mph with a trailer on your front bumper.
In reply to dculberson :
It's 8 people or XXXX pounds, in flat calm water. Take that second number, subtract the total weight of your gear. What's left is the total weight of people you can take with you. If you're taking kids, you can take more, but only up to the max number of people. If you've got some big folks coming, you can take fewer.
In the example above, 1765 is the most weight you can have in the boat and be safe on a glass calm day. It includes motor, fuel, gear, people, waterlogged foam in the hull, the weight of the anchor you're carrying- everything.
If your motor weighs 500 pounds and you've got a 30 gallon tank full of gas (~180 pounds), and you fill up the livewell with 20 gallons of water (~170 pounds), you're down to 915 pounds. Throw a cooler weighing 40 pounds (full) on there? BOOM! 875 pounds, and so on.
In many cases, it winds up being a lot less than you think until you do the math.
Sonic
UberDork
1/20/23 10:37 a.m.
A former relative used to tow a Whaler Outrage 20 with a 98 Grand Caravan. Probably similar weight to the 22 in question. The van, which has less power and fewer gears, was able to launch and retrieve. It wasn't pretty but it did it, traction wasn't the issue, the transmission was but those had more problems than the more modern ones and taller 1st gear. Good tires, gentle throttle, it will probably be fine.
