Learn Me: Entry-Level Industrial 3D Printers

Long story short, I was bored during the pandemic and started selling 3D printed string alignment kits through a website I dubbed Caliper Garage. I had a 3D printer and I had time to kill, so I figured why not sell some stuff to fund my machine tool addiction.

One problem: The business keeps growing, and even after adding a second consumer-level 3D printer I'm constantly behind. I rolled the dice and spent $800 on a new-to-market Sainsmart belt printer, but it's finicky and slower than I hoped.

Shopping better consumer-level printers led me to a revelation: It seems like the low end of industrial 3D printers is a $2000-$5000 price range, so maybe I should stop looking at hobby-grade printers and start looking at what the pros use. I'd love the opportunity to add new products and experiment with some stronger materials than PETG while I'm at it.

And before you ask: I'd rather not set up a print farm with a bunch of cheap printers, as I'm low on space and see this as an opportunity to improve the quality of my stuff. 

I did look at injection molding, but the quotes were ludicrous to farm it out and that's too involved of a process to bring into my backyard.

Here are my pain points with low-end printers:

1. Slow.
2. Inconsistent. I scrap about 10% of material due to prints that don't pass inspection.
3. Limited to fairly mundane materials.
4. Need constant babysitting/maintenance. 

Does anybody have recommendations? Anecdotes? Brand names to learn more about? And is my assumption that professional printers are faster, more consistent, and more durable actually correct?

Since you are spending $1000s , have you thought of a  prototype plastic injection machine.

it can be a simple single shot machine , the tech schools had them , 

I am not sure how large the part is that you are making 

Morgan press is one that has been made for decades.

Lulzbot Taz's seem to be the entry point for workhorse printers for most people I've spoken with.

@3DMagicMike on IG has been using one for several years as far as I know.

How close are you to the volume need to tool up those parts?  You'll get much better material properties than 3d printing, lower part costs, and all of the manufacturing can be outsourced.

That said, I'm following this just for my own knowledge.  I have only a little experience with cheap printers, a lot of experience with pro-level printers(starting in 6 figures) and I know nothing about the points in between.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

I would avoid those at all cost, they use an oddball filament size and the nozzles are hard to swap out.  Something that needs to stay up and running needs a quick swap on a nozzle.  Nozzle clog was always my biggest source of failure when I was running my small farm.

In reply to Tom Suddard :

I wouldn't be buying just one machine, I'd buy a couple of one platform. This takes up more space but has a a lot of benefits: shared parts, staggered prints for constantly throughput, multiple colors is easier and machine downtime doesn't affect print queue as much as it would if you were all in on one machine. I'd be looking at a couple of Prusa Mk3's.  The Prusa is so smooth and a proven performer in a high yield situation.  Aside for Josef Prusa himself I know of several guys running businesses selling prints like yours (similar market) that are running small Prusa farms. 

We run Markforged printers. Their Onyx material has a beautiful finish and is both strong and heat resistant, although it's more expensive than generic PTEG. We've got a farm of 5 or 6 that run 24/7 and they have extremely good uptime and low scrap rates. No regrets other than the fact that we need to buy one or two more :)

I think they're about $4500 each. We buy filament literally by the pallet. 

I researched Markforged and almost purchased one. This was around march 2020 but I am pretty sure pricing was double what Keith mentions. 

Markforged IS the one you want though. I have a Prusa MK3 that I purchased for my son, its good but Markforged is better. 

Call Markforged and arrange a meeting with the Florida rep, he is out of the Tampa area and a very nice guy. He can print you sample parts. 

One thing I came to find out later in the process was that you can lease the Markforged. Keep in mind you have to buy their material and it is more expensive. 

Formlabs is the way to go. 

Lot of materials to chose from from rubber o-ring to dental hard

Resolution and finish way beyond string technology

Support and ongoing innovation is very good.

Had 3 of them running 24/7  and they are light years ahead of the string machines. Formalbs opens a lot of other doors and making your own molds is a big help when moving to higher volumes.

The companies endless innovation of process and materials does come across as a bit cult-like, but  I can ignore that.

The step up in price is a bit of a shock, but the payback was measured in months for what we were doing. It was also a case of once you get a tool, you keep finding new uses for it.

https://formlabs.com/

In reply to Slippery :

You can use your own material with the Markforged but it voids the warranty iirc. The official stuff is not cheap but it's still not bad and it's a really good material. Our payback time for a printer is pretty short. 

I know there was a price increase a while back - we bought one of our printers just ahead of it - but they're kinda like GM cars. MSRP isn't the selling price. 

In reply to NOHOME :

Yeah, I was going to recommend resin, and strongly recommend formlabs. you can print a LOT at one time because you can platform and stack them to utilize the volume. 

I know nothing about the product but I can tell you that the guys who started the business are good dudes and car guys.  At the other end of the building that I rent space in for my shop is a new outfit called G-Zero Additive and they've designed and are selling an industrial printer.

https://www.gzeroadditive.com/

Apropos of nothing but knowing the people here, if you are into this new-world manufacturing and also a sci-fi reader, you should look up Corey Doctorow.  His books have been leading the social revolution in manufacturing and worklife that we are living in today by about 10 years.

As it pertains to this thread, the printers of the future run on a generic "goop" that can be endlessly recycled.

My sister designs and makes parts for scrapbooking and letter boards and sells on Etsy. She have ~6 Prusa's now and the print quality is astonishing for the cost of the machines and they are decently priced. Hers run a solid 14+ hours a day and she has had minimal issues. 

Keith Tanner said:

In reply to Slippery :

... but they're kinda like GM cars. MSRP isn't the selling price. 

This is true, that's why I said later in the process I learned about the lease option. 

When I was about to pull the trigger on a $10k printer, Covid hit and things got uncertain for a while so I put it on hold. A relentless amount of calls and different offers/options were presented that were not disclosed on the initial talks. 
 

Do any of the options mentioned above have a queue option, remote management, etc?

In reply to ProDarwin :

What do you mean by remote management? And what are you looking to get from it?

I know my son installed an arduino or some type of microprocessor on his Prusa that let's him load software remotely and start it as long as the printer is connected to WIFI, he also has a camera on it. I helped him fund the project not because I thought it was useful to start the printer remotely but because I thought it was a great learning experience and show support for his ideas.

You're probably talking about Octoprint, I use that on my Ender 3 at home. The camera is useful if I want to check in on a long-duration print from my desk. I'm about to move the printer down to my shop where it will be even more useful. 

The Markforged are controlled by a web interface of some sort, I'm only a spectator so I don't know the specific details. But management is done remotely, there's almost no direct interaction with the machine itself other than loading filament and clearing the bed. I know our guys do a lot of planning so that prints don't end at 2 am or on a weekend, which leads to down time.

Keith Tanner said:

The Markforged are controlled by a web interface of some sort, I'm only a spectator so I don't know the specific details. But management is done remotely, there's almost no direct interaction with the machine itself other than loading filament and clearing the bed. I know our guys do a lot of planning so that prints don't end at 2 am or on a weekend, which leads to down time.

This is basically what I was thinking of.

Our old Stratasys machined had something similar.  You could put things in the queue remotely, almost like jobs on an office printer.  When one is done, someone would clean it, restart it, and it would just start cranking on the next one.

This is just purely out of curiosity.  Where I work I could see that being advantageous, especially because dragging an SD card or USB stick around to multiple machines every day to load them and get them started does eat up a decent chunk of time.

Markforged is an amazing machine.  But Keith is way out of touch on pricing.  This was from last March (2021)

In reply to Indy - Guy :

I was quoted $10k, extremely sure, but Keith is correct there is a lower priced unit:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I just gave him a quick call. He is using a Raspberry Pi 4 running on Octopi.

I agree the camera is great and you can pause it if there are any problems while checking on long prints.

I'll get a good pic of my son's setup later. This is all I have for now:

Our machines are the Onyx One (gen 2) based on that picture. When we bought our first, they were about $4500 from what I remember. Now it looks like the MSRP is nearly $5k. I don't think that's too far out of touch :) I do know it's the least expensive printer, they've got some wonderful and eye-watering options.

I can say from a couple of years of experience with multiple printers that even the basic Onyx One can run quite reliably in a production setting, so for Tom's plans it would probably do the trick.

Thanks for all the feedback, everybody. This gives me lots of directions to start researching!

Has anybody ever used anything from Raise3D? This seems like a lot of value for the price:

https://www.raise3d.com/e2/

In reply to Tom Suddard :

I use their slicer (IdeaMaker) and really like it. But no personal experience with their printers. I do hear a LOT of issues with the Pro 2. Personally, I wouldn't get the new Pro 3 simply becasue of the issues with the Pro 2. If I were getting an FDM I'd get a few Prusas. But if I were doing smallish things and a lot of them, I'd get a resin printer and do what they call 'resin stacking' to maximize the volume.

Keith Tanner said:

Our machines are the Onyx One (gen 2) based on that picture. When we bought our first, they were about $4500 from what I remember. Now it looks like the MSRP is nearly $5k. I don't think that's too far out of touch :) I do know it's the least expensive printer, they've got some wonderful and eye-watering options.

I can say from a couple of years of experience with multiple printers that even the basic Onyx One can run quite reliably in a production setting, so for Tom's plans it would probably do the trick.

Well, Looking at the chart Slippery posted, the sales guy lost all of his commission trying to steer us towards the 20k model instead of the 5k model.  We ended buying on with less print quality for a tick under $5k.