Learn me - Weight loss

Starting this week off well I feel, I've managed to maintain around 1200 calories today, a protein bar for breakfast and ham in cheese in a pita for lunch and a turkey and brown rice dish for dinner tonight. Did a short walk after dinner and I'm feeling good, I was able to stave off the hunger today by eating grapes and drinking loads of water. Here's to keeping this week going, I plan on some weights and potentially a run later this week.

1200 is really low, but amazingly productive at first. You can only handle that low for 10-14 days before your body starts shutting down your metabolism. Somewhere around day 10 go up to 1300-1500 as a base. Remember, that is a base level of calories for the fastest fat loss, any lower and you risk your body panicking and stopping your fat loss while dumping muscle. That means if you do 300 calories worth of exercise you have to eat 300 calories above your base to prevent metabolic slowdown and your body shedding muscle. Please strength train. A simple routine of 9-12 exercises covering your whole body done one round through 2-3x a week to maximum effort will put on a few pounds of muscle even though you are severely calorie restricted. I've personally put hundreds of people through a similar diet plan with those calorie levels and that exercise plan. You should drop a minimum of 10lbs on the scale in the first month and gain at least two pounds of muscle. I would expect more like 15lbs on the scale and 4-5lbs of muscle if I could personally supervise the program. A calorie counting approach is the fastest method of weight loss. It's not for everyone, but when you adhere to it strictly it gives amazing results.

Very well said, MrJoshua. I presume you are a trainer? So many people think starvation is the way to weight loss. It's sad. Like you said, it'll produce incredible results initially, which leads the person to a false sense of reality. When the weight loss stops after a few weeks, they'll think "Gee, I've got to starve myself more" and then that doesn't work, they get frustrated and give up. The body is pretty smart and will adapt quickly to routine, and also to protect itself. I wouldn't recommend it for newbies, but you can get some great weight loss results by short time spiking your calories, then dropping back down. That happens to me nearly every vacation. When I'm on vacation, I relax my nutrition watching...I still eat a clean base, but will allow myself more snacks and treats. My weight actually stays the same because I'm very active on vacation...walking around Disney. When I come home, I go right back to my regular macro split. That first week, I am STARVING, and I wind up loosing a few pounds because my metabolism had spiked while on vacation. Like I said before, I ultimately don't care about the actual number on the scale, it's more about my body composition. But I do weigh myself out of curiosity and it's interesting to see the changes with different things I do.

FWIW: Just a few running sessions per week on grass/dirt trails will help reduce repetitive injuries and will strengthen your ankles and calves for longer runs on pavement.

The "running is bad for your joints" is a pretty broad brush. It could be as simple as having issues after only running on sidewalks that are cambered to one side---that's a quick way for your hips/ankles/knees to start hurting, it's like running with one leg shorter than the other!

MrJoshua wrote: Another worry about long bouts of repetitive movements is your bodies response to joint mobility. Our range of motion around a joint is set by our bodies response to needed range. When you do thousands of repetitions in a very narrow portion of a joints motion the body starts to set that range as normal. Your motion limits gradually narrow until your total usable range around the hips/knees/and ankles is barely more than used while running. Most runners stretch which helps prevent the issues in the legs but they rarely stretch the shoulders or train upper back strength so they get the slouched posture. None of those issues are nearly as bad as the damage obesity does to us as we age, and all of them have fairly simple solutions. I prefer solving them by adding a simple weight training routine a few days a week.

Per Schroeder wrote: FWIW: Just a few running sessions per week on grass/dirt trails will help reduce repetitive injuries and will strengthen your ankles and calves for longer runs on pavement. The "running is bad for your joints" is a pretty broad brush. It could be as simple as having issues after only running on sidewalks that are cambered to one side---that's a quick way for your hips/ankles/knees to start hurting, it's like running with one leg shorter than the other!

Varying the surface you run on is probably ok, but it's the impact of running that is hard on joints more than uneven surfaces, etc. People with enough muscle to fully support joints will be less likely to be injured from uneven terrain, but even they still see pretty damaging impact on joints over time.

The jury is very much still out on that subject, and as earlier stated, being overweight on those same joints is most likely worse.

The trick for me has been to find shoes that work for my foot/body type, find routes and areas that I can run on that mix up terrain and to listen when things start barking.

Per

MrJoshua wrote: 1200 is really low, but amazingly productive at first. You can only handle that low for 10-14 days before your body starts shutting down your metabolism. Somewhere around day 10 go up to 1300-1500 as a base. Remember, that is a base level of calories for the fastest fat loss, any lower and you risk your body panicking and stopping your fat loss while dumping muscle. That means if you do 300 calories worth of exercise you have to eat 300 calories above your base to prevent metabolic slowdown and your body shedding muscle. Please strength train. A simple routine of 9-12 exercises covering your whole body done one round through 2-3x a week to maximum effort will put on a few pounds of muscle even though you are severely calorie restricted. I've personally put hundreds of people through a similar diet plan with those calorie levels and that exercise plan. You should drop a minimum of 10lbs on the scale in the first month and gain at least two pounds of muscle. I would expect more like 15lbs on the scale and 4-5lbs of muscle if I could personally supervise the program. A calorie counting approach is the fastest method of weight loss. It's not for everyone, but when you adhere to it strictly it gives amazing results.

This is really interesting to me. Thanks for posting.

Agree with you Per.

My joints actually feel better now that I'm running more consistently. But I also do it smart. I don't just run on pavement. I do a lot of trail running as well. I've made an investment in really good shoes that fit me well. I also do a lot of core strengthening. Finally, I only run 3-4 days a week and the rest of the time is spent on the bike or yoga or strength training.

I'm a little bit further down that rabbithole: Run 3 days a week? Recipe for pain... Run 6 days? All good. I'm 200lbs (from 240) and run fairly quickly for my age/weight so when things start to get achey, I know I'm pounding the same area too hard.

In reply to MrJoshua:

That's great information, I'm basically just trying to slow down the "want" for food, I really wasn't starving by last night. I tried to supplement hunger with water/fruit, I plan on fixing up my bicycle so I can go for a ride this week. The apartment gym will be utilized starting tonight.

Zombie thread (I don't like cluttering up the place). My dad used to be a real alfa male - semi-pro motorcycle racer and such. But now he's an obese 78-year-old and his mobility sucks. I've been hearing a lot of good stuff about Zepbound and Mounjaro, so I told him to contact his doctor. His doctor's response? "Those medications are for obese diabetics. Fortunately you are not diabetic."

That just pisses me off. Those meds are commonly prescribed for obesity. Either his doctor is several years behind the times, Kaiser doesn't want to pay for them, or both. Now I can understand concerns that he might loose some muscle mass in the process, and if he doesn't change his diet, he'll put the weight back on, but he's willing to do resistance work with my trainer, so I think that it would be great for him.

Any thoughts or suggestions to get past this impase?

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

A lot of insurance companies won't pay without being diabetic. Our insurance covers almost everything and a few of my coworkers were denied. 

Paging mndsm, mndsm to the courtesy phone please...

recent relevant thread: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/2-less-obese/273711/page1/

My wife is a dietitian and works for Mochi, a Telehealth provider for the GLP-1s. Website is here, you shouldn't really have any issues getting the drugs from them. My wife is not getting any commission or anything. https://joinmochi.com/

These drugs are really incredible. It may be too early (though they've been around for 30 years and the earliest ones approved for about 20 years) to say this, but they look like they have the potential to be a miracle drug. We are seeing evidence that they [may] curb addiction, slow cancer, regenerate damaged tissue, reduce allergies... I don't think we have enough data to say these are facts, but the data sure seems to be trending that way.

I'm obviously biased because of my wife's paycheck, but these drugs are just incredible.
 

Of course, they do have their issues when you start, and they can be abused. 
 

Right now there is a shortage of some of these meds, and aside from that, many insurance companies don't cover them for many folks. Additionally, many doctors outside of endocrinologists just aren't knowledgeable about them yet. 
 

If you want to talk to Mrs. mtn about them, let me know. 
 

EDIT: I think most healthcare professionals would say that it would be better to lose weight the old fashioned way - cut out alcohol, eat good food that is mostly plant based, get your macronutrients, count your calories, get your cardio, and do resistance/weight training. But ask yourself if that is realistic for the situation. 
 

Edit again: sent my wife your post. This was her response, obviously with the disclaimer that she isn't a doctor, doesn't know your dad's exact situation, and isn't his provider:

Depending on your body's metabolism, you burn about 100 calories for every mile you run.   Basically, running for one mile gets rid of two Oreo cookies, which is 0.05 lbs.  That's about 20 miles per pound if you eat Oreos.  Not very efficient. Your body naturally consumes about 2000-2500 calories sitting on the couch.  Exercise is a great way to build muscle, but not a very good way to burn fat, especially because your body uses caloric mass in your bloodstream before it taps your fat reserves.

My doc put it this way:  Let's say you eat 1 lb of celery.  Your body gains 1 lb because you put a pound of weight in it.  Since celery is mostlly water and fiber, the next time you poop and take a leak, you've passed nearly all of that pound because your body didn't find any nutrients in the celery to absorb into the bloodstream.  Now let's say you eat a 1-lb hamburger.  It's full of protein, fats, and carbs that your body does absorb, so you added a pound when you ate it, but more of that pound was absorbed into your blood... and less comes out the disposal chute.  He told me that one of the secrets is eating foods that are full of what your body needs in the right proportion, and not an excess of anything.  Basically, if weight in is greater than weight out, you gain weight, and vice versa.  The problem is, we can't really quantify weight out, because it leaves us in so many ways... dead skin cells, evaporation, etc.

Basically, the bigger secret for weight loss is eating and what you eat.  It kinda debunks the whole calorie thing since it's not necessarily the amount of calories, it's what those calories are and how your body uses them.  Eating 1000 calories from broccoli and a chicken breast is a lot different than eating 1000 calories of bacon and mayonnaise because of the ratios of fats, carbs, and sugars.  It's not how many calories you put in your mouth as much as it's how many calories make it to the bloodstream vs. how many calories your body actually burns every day.  If you burn more than your body absorbs, you lose weight.

In reply to mtn :

You rang? 

Sorry I was busy setting my back yard on fire. 

Anyhow- seems like most people have covered the nitty gritty of weight loss. 3500 calories is 1lb of fat. The end. Go over a total of 3500, you gain, go under a total of 3500 you lose. 

Where the glp drugs work (and what they did for me) is curb appetite. Plain and simple. You eat less. There were days when I would forget to eat. Combine that with *light* exercise (and I do mean light ...it's a long story and my dr. Even said that exercise in this instance and especially my age basically means berkeley all when it comes to weight loss) I lost 110lb. Went from 295 to 185 in about 18 months. 

The ride up to max dose was a MESS. every side effect you've read about, I had, and had a lot. It was ugly for a while. But, I sucked it up and made it through. Once they abated, it was smooth sailing. 

The thing that most people ignore is the REAL reason this all works- the chance to reset. You stop eating like E36 M3 because you stop eating entirely. In theory you could do exactly what I did eating nothing but taco bell and uncrustables, but as soon as you went back to normal, your appetite comes back and you gain the weight back. That's where people fail. I went from eating high fat, high cost food constantly to weighing all my food, reading every single label, and measuring all my meals. I don't eat something if I don't know the nutritional value of it, plain and simple. That's just how my life is going to be from now on. 

I will admit several things. First- i am an extreme example. I am like the wu-tang clan. Ain't nothing to berkeley with. I also take things a little too seriously sometimes. So when dr. Says the thing, I DO THE THING.  most people by all accounts can expect around 20% loss on these drugs. I clocked nearly double that at 37.5%>