Letting Go Of God

This is NOT a thread bashing religion. Please don't turn it into one.

One of the things that annoys me regularly is the intolerance of others when it comes to people's personal beliefs. A lot of the time it is merely because a person does not take the time to understand WHY that person believes what they do, even if you feel that belief is incorrect. I recently watched this thanks to Netflix and think this is the best, most honest and non-combative explanation of how someone might turn to Atheism.

Julia Sweeney performs a one woman stage show tracking her quest for religious understanding, from being raised Catholic through studying a multitude of religions trying to find one that 'fits', and ultimately finding herself in a completely different place. And then, that scary moment when you have to imagine "What if there is no God?". It's entertaining, candid, at times funny but never mean or nasty; in fact, I think it is eloquent and respectful and depicts a true, honest look at a process everyone should go through no matter where they wind up in believing. I think everyone who can't understand non-believers should watch this. No, it probably won't change your personal belief system (it's not a Dawkins-like propaganda piece) but it will explain how the other side likely came to their place.

Fair is fair. Shouldn't bash a religion if you haven't read it's book, and shouldn't bash non-believers if you aren't willing to take the time to understand them.

I didn't know she'd made a movie. I heard a large chunk of the stand up a few years back when it was broadcast as part of the Godless America episode of This American Life. The other segments in that episode are just as good as Julia's.

She also did a TED talk that you can watch.

There was a point in my life when I wondered "what is God?" and "why would He / She / They go to the trouble to create humankind?" I'm still not sure of the second question, but when you look around you, how can you say "there is no God" or "God is dead."? Has man ever created a leaf, much less a tree?

For what it's worth, I don't think "man" will be truely civilized, until all mankind gets past this ....need(?) to kill all non-believers / infidels. Any entity that is claimed to command death upon anyone for any reason I don't think can be a God, but is only a god. (Please note the distinction.)

When my son died before my eyes I questioned everything, including "is there a God at all, and if so, why did this happen?"

It was one helluva journey. That looks like it could be interesting.

integraguy wrote: but when you look around you, how can you say "there is no God"

Easily, very easily. I'm a very firm non-believer. But I still have full respect for those that do. The way I look at it, I can't "prove" I'm right, just like believers can't "prove" they're right. Everyone is entitled to believe what they wish, which I think helps explain why there are so many religions and different offshoots/sects of each one. I've never asked a very religious person to agree with me, only respect my opinion.

Klayfish covered my stance on this nicely.

Hope this thread doesn't get into belief-bashing territory.

Her story on This American Life about her experience with cancer was also very good, and poignant. I think Julia Sweeney is a great storyteller, I'll have to check out this movie.

Klayfish wrote:

integraguy wrote: but when you look around you, how can you say "there is no God"

Easily, very easily. I'm a very firm non-believer. But I still have full respect for those that do. The way I look at it, I can't "prove" I'm right, just like believers can't "prove" they're right. Everyone is entitled to believe what they wish, which I think helps explain why there are so many religions and different offshoots/sects of each one. I've never asked a very religious person to agree with me, only respect my opinion.

This.

ddavidv, thanks for the link. I'll have to put that in our queue.

I'm with Klayfish. Each to his own and respect the other.

I'll have to watch that. I get that question occasionally about "turning" to atheism, which I find odd. I have always been this way, never believed from day one, never struggled at all.

Bill Mahar (probabaly spelled wrong) did a film called "religulos" (Again , may be spelled wrong) that was also very good.

I sleep in on Sundays, unless there's a race.

pinchvalve wrote: I'll have to watch that. I get that question occasionally about "turning" to atheism, which I find odd. I have always been this way, never believed from day one, never struggled at all.

My mom's side of the family is Southern Baptist. She went Methodist and we kids went to church with her. My dad was a believer but did not follow any one organized religion. Me, I questioned as far back as I can remember and finally had to come to a conclusion. So I guess it could be said that I 'turned' to atheism, but I don't really see it that way. To me it was more like finally putting a name to how I felt and realizing that I wasn't the only one.

It's not a good thing to be openly atheist in the South. It can and will come back to bite.

There was a recent article in Newsweek by a neurosciencist who experienced "something" while being "brain dead" in a coma for a few weeks. For all intent and purposes he should have experienced nothing, as his brain was no longer functioning, but what he experienced was a sense of very real "heaven" that filled him with euphoria.

I think its amazing that modern religions still refer to God as being male, as a singular being, as this guy you'll recognize in the afterlife. "Hey God, how ya doin?"

I know many post-religious atheists who have turn away from the church not because they didn't believe Jesus existed, not because they don't believe the bible is a good reference for moral and ethics, and not because they didn't like the church community, but because they can't understand the idea of God as a being.

I think it would do Christianity (and other religions) a great deal to quit referring to God as a being, and start thinking of God as being an inexplicable force. You can believe in Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, or any other decedent-to-earth figure and still have it mesh with God as this inexplicable force.

Ah, bashing religions under the guise of atheism.

I don't really have a belief, but I don't talk about it with anyone for the most part. I'm very happy with my life and don't need anyone to give me a reason to live. I get that some people find peace with religion, but I'm not one of them. The other movie gear head is talking about is "religulous" And it is pretty good.

I don't understand atheism or creationism, you can't prove jack squat either way. Which is why I'm a apathetic agnostic, I just don't care because you can't prove anything.

Gearheadotaku wrote: Bill Mahar (probabaly spelled wrong) did a film called "religulos" (Again , may be spelled wrong) that was also very good. I sleep in on Sundays, unless there's a race.

Very good movie, but Bill is so strong on his stance, he ends up pissing off a lot of christians.

The Nature of Existence is a good one if you like these movies. It helps you understand the beliefs of others.

Most of you know I'm a Witch, but not a recruiter. I'm happy to teach, but I won't push my beliefs on others. In fact most of those who believe likely have similar beliefs. For those of you who know Wicca sometimes has multiple gods, I believe in many of one just like christians believe the Trinity is one.

Questioning only makes my faith stronger.

PHeller wrote: I think it would do Christianity (and other religions) a great deal to quit referring to God as a being, and start thinking of God as being an inexplicable force. You can believe in Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, or any other decedent-to-earth figure and still have it mesh with God as this inexplicable force.

But dude, you can't possibly be ...

ugh, but the whole point is...

AHHH!

I'm not modifying the religion to suit...

Ahh!

I'm just going to stop. Way too much negative here, no good can come of this. I'll avoid clicking here any more.

The more I learn about religion, the more I realize that those that don't believe more times than not don't understand either. This is not a bash, just my observation, because most reasons I hear give for doubting the existence of God are fully explained in the Bible if you take the time to read and learn. Again, I'm not bashing those that don't believe, but just saying that making up your mind before reading and learning the Bible is like voting for a president without knowing anything about him, or buying a car without comparing it to the competition. I try to make informed decisions about everything, and when I hear a lot of the reasons people have for not believing, it's obvious that they have made an uninformed decision. That's their choice, I'm just pointing it out.

In reply to bravenrace:

I have read the bible multiple times and I still struggle with believing in the Christian god. I mean I believe in god but reading the bible has done little to convince me. Also it might be the actions I have seen within the church I grew up at. There was a pastor I really liked. He was great at giving advice and I was good friends with his kids but he was too progressive for some in church in particular ones with the money and he got ran off. I also had multiple bad experiences with the Christian organizations at the college I went to so it has driven me away.

I'm more of a deist than anything else. I tried to believe in Christianity when I was younger, but couldn't reconcile it with logic and reason. Logic and reason prevailed.

bravenrace wrote: The more I learn about religion, the more I realize that those that don't believe more times than not don't understand either. This is not a bash, just my observation, because most reasons I hear give for doubting the existence of God are fully explained in the Bible if you take the time to read and learn. Again, I'm not bashing those that don't believe, but just saying that making up your mind before reading and learning the Bible is like voting for a president without knowing anything about him, or buying a car without comparing it to the competition. I try to make informed decisions about everything, and when I hear a lot of the reasons people have for not believing, it's obvious that they have made an uninformed decision. That's their choice, I'm just pointing it out.

That assumes that the only choice here is between atheism/agnosticism and Christianity. If you followed your own advice here, you would have to read the Bible, the Quran, the Torah, Dianetics, The Bhagavad Gita, the Vedas, the Sutras.... before making an informed decision. I doubt many people do that.

tuna55 wrote: I'm not modifying the religion to suit...

Christians modified Judaism to suit. Jesus even taught that their religion was flawed.

DoctorBlade wrote: Ah, bashing religions under the guise of atheism.

The converse is true as well. It amazes me how many religious folk immediately tighten up at the mention of atheism and try their best to convince them they are wrong.

I don't think there is any bashing going on here. Some folks are talking about letting go, if you want to talk about how you found God, go for it.