The car is a 1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera with the 2.5l iron duke. Well to start with we had the car running better than it ever had since we bought it by getting a section of the gas line replaced. A few weeks later it popped a code for the oxygen sensor. It got to where you had to pump the gas to get it going. Then we went to autozone and replaced it and it acted normal again but only for one day. It started doing the same thing again but this time with no codes. It also started backfiring when all of this happened and now it wont start at all. It doesnt sound the same when cranking but ive already checked the timing gears and dont know what else it could be. If someone on here might have some idea of what my problem might be or could point me to another place where I could get help with this that would be great.
NGTD
UberDork
1/13/19 6:40 p.m.
You need the 3 things, air, spark and fuel.
From what you are describing, I think your issue is fuel.
Start checking the fuel system from the engine back. I'm guessing fuel pump or a blockage from replacing the fuel line.
I forgot to mention that the motor also will not run on starting fluid. I can try giving that a check over though.
I looked today and i found that a coupe of sparkpugs have metal shavings on them. I know this is something internal but I am wondering what do you think is the biggest culprit?
NGTD
UberDork
1/14/19 6:20 p.m.
Well finding metal shavings on the plugs doesn't sound good. Are you sure it's metal?
If the car won't run on starting fluid, then you need to look elsewhere other than fuel.
I would check the ignition (spark).
Have you checked the oil for metal?
Gary
SuperDork
1/14/19 6:41 p.m.
"Well finding metal shavings on the plugs doesn't sound good."
"If the car won't run on starting fluid, then you need to look elsewhere other than fuel."
Sorry Mat. But this has the makings of a classic thread.
Maybe worthy of a "Say What" spot in GRM magazine.
yeah, what Stampie said. check the oil for metal.
metal shavings on the spark plugs definitely sounds bad, but it could just be metal shavings from the threads, like if they were cross-threaded, which still isn't awesome...or could even just be packed dirt and grime (and not actually metal) from around the plugs that got on them when you were removing them.
metal shavings in the oil means some metal stuff is scraping together when the engine is running, and it probably won't run for long unless it is dealt with.
is the new Ox sensor all contaminated now? if the engine is running really rich, the sensor can get all fouled up and make the engine run pretty bad (i think---somebody chime in if i'm being full of crap!). but before that happens, the engine might run fine for awhile. that would explain why it ran really good the day you replaced it. really rich might cause the backfiring too. i have no idea why the cranking would sound different, unless it's the sound of metal shavings forming inside...
Grizz
UberDork
1/14/19 8:03 p.m.
This raises another interesting question:
Can an LS4 go in an 87 cutlass ciera without making all of it shake apart?
How many miles on said engine? Compression test?
In reply to NGTD :
I checked spark its getting good spark on al four plugs. I went back and looked and I believe the metal I seen was just from around where the spark plugs thread in. I am at a loss of what it could possibly be.
How did you check the timing gear? Sounds like it went out of time on you. Got compression? Put a timing light on #1 and confirm it is firing sometime around 10BTDC.
In reply to NGTD :
Those three things need to be at the right time.
did you have the distributor out for anything? the rotor may be in the wrong position.
i did something one time on an old Subaru where i ended up putting the distributor in 180 degrees off. it sounded strange cranking and didn't run, but seemed like it was close to starting. i realized what i did right away though because i had the distributor out and i cranked the engine for some reason and lost track of it. i was going by the mark on the flywheel, which rotates twice for every one rotation of the cam-shaft (which the distributor runs off of). so the flywheel was showing the timing mark, but i didn't know which stroke the cylinder was on.
on a related note: if you had the plugs out or the distributor out, are you sure the wires are all put back in the correct spots?
In reply to robmillion :
It doesn't have a distributor it has coil packs.
In reply to Mathewlong :
ok, sorry, i don't know much about those. i thought pretty much everything had a distributor back in the 80s.
did you check the O2 sensor again to see if it got all fouled again? and check the spark plugs again too, just to see if they're getting all fouled. or if they are soaked with fuel.*
*disclaimer: i currently have a few/several beers in me, coursing through the capillaries and other blood passages in my thoughtbrain and mindstuff. so, yeah...
In reply to robmillion :
02 sensor looks good and plugs don't look wet. It's only got 137,000 miles on it so it's got me pretty stumped.
Ok basics .. got a $6 harbor freight spark tester? Do you have spark?
Got fuel? At least to the rail? On a related note I was trying to find out where your fuel pressure regulator was and ran across this video. I thought the dialogue was funny as hell. Warning NSFW language.
https://youtu.be/uNcN73LHrrQ
In reply to Stampie :
It gets fuel but won't even attempt to start not even with starting fluid.
does it have compression on all cylinders?
Might have a cam gear problem, Cam Gear failure worth checking out. Would explain why it doesn't fire at all.
If you have fuel to the cylinder (smell it out the exhaust or plugs have/smell of it) then I agree with others a compression test is in order.
Stampie said:
If you have fuel to the cylinder (smell it out the exhaust or plugs have/smell of it) then I agree with others a compression test is in order.
Yes, especially if you say you're getting spark and it won't even run on steering fluid. The only thing left is compression. Either that, ori it'snot getting any air at all
