Rare-ish Car Value and Selling- Clubman JCW

I've been trying to sell my '14 Cluman JCW for a while now, but interest has been more sparse than I was expecting. Autotrader has only had one or two listed at any given time, and asking prices have been around $16k, some with barely lower miles, fewer options, older, etc. KBB has error bars a mile wide and has been around $17k in my condition. I even had a dealer offer $12.5k which tells me my valuation is in the right ballpark.

Facebook marketplace has become so flooded and impossible to navigate, I imagine the right buyer just isn't finding my car. Craigslist seems to be no help, and autotrader wouldn't display my car if you filtered my manual only, so anyone searching for it wouldn't find it. I reached out to them and they didn't care. BaT turns their nose up at clubmans but will sell a GP every week, and, well, here's where it gets really interesting with Cars and Bids: https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3pG2lzVY/2014-mini-cooper-clubman-john-cooper-works?c=all

Weirdest bidding history ever. It was on trend to fall massively short of the below-market reserve, and this guy came in swinging. Well, it turns out he actually didn't read how bidding worked and thought he was setting a max proxy. Still, he agreed to buy the car. Well, it turns out that when I was prepping the car for sale, I misread a fuse label and moved one a slot over. This killed the AC, and I just never noticed because it had been too cool. It took me a day to find the issue, but then he backed out claiming the car was misrepresented. I offered to pay for a PPI through a shop of his choosing, but he was spooked and honestly I think we was looking for a way out after the bidding accident. It didn't help that he misread the Carfax and thought I had only had the car for 7k miles when I was claiming 20k. Still, he wouldn't have gotten the car if he had placed a more reasonable increment since that was so short of the reserve, so I thought this was a very reasonable price for both of us since I had originally listed the car for $16,500. 

So I guess all that backstory for my question. I can drop the price well below what every sign says the car is worth to get a bigger buyer pool (aka those shopping for an S with plans to add a tune), or I can keep waiting for that rare buyer who values everything about the car that I did when I was looking for it. What would you do? Am I missing a selling resource somewhere? At something like the $12.5k though that the dealer offered me, I'd be better off slapping some sticky tires on it and doing track days. Hindsight being 20/20, I should've sold it 12 months ago below market and invested it! But The biggest (and ironic) downside to tracking it is it would take away from the little free time I have to finish my actual track car. The JCW is paid for, garaged, and redundant though, and in the factory guise is perfectly capable for track work. 

What's it take to get relisted on C&B? 

In reply to John Welsh :

Given the bidding, I don't know that's the best route to take though. What's the expression - if at first you don't succeed, try another way? It is entirely possible though that some serious buyers were in the room and waiting to bid then got scared away by the high winning bid, but even that one came in with just a few seconds left. One bidder I thought was going to be very serious bowed out at under $10k and should've known it wouldn't go anywhere near that. I didn't even have anyone message me privately about getting a PPI or detailed questions. Maybe as C&B's audience grows it could be worth a revisit, and I think they'd allow that (and give me a black eye from fighting over the reserve), but I am a bit gunshy about trying again any time soon. Don't get me wrong, they have been fine to deal with and the reserve price badgering is par for the course, but I just don't think I had enough buyers in the room to make an auction work. 

The Mini Market is tough. The cost to repair for the non mechanical has steered a lot of buyers away from the brand. Have you gotten a quote from Carvana or Vroom? They tend to be higher than most if they service your area. 

Carvan, vroom, and Carmax.  You should get at least a price from all of them. 

Is there any interest from the two nearest Mini Dealers? 

Any of the "put your VIN in and get a price" sites are weighted down by the non-JCW prices it seems. Some also penalize price for being a manual, which we know actually adds value for this category. I tried Carvana and got like $8k. The Nada blue book, for example, explicitly states -$400 for not having the optional auto. Even then it puts it at $15,200 retail and $12,650 trade-in. 

Nearest mini dealers are both an hour away in opposite directions, which is more than I want to drive to be told what I expect will also be an insulting figure. I don't need to sell it, so taking half the KBB value just isn't an option. The offer I did get was from a major dealer chain but not a Mini one. Even then, I suspect that if I listed it for $13k it would be gone in a heartbeat since their offer was just a balkpark figure pending an evaluation. 

bmw88rider said:

The Mini Market is tough. The cost to repair for the non mechanical has steered a lot of buyers away from the brand. 

Myself nearly included, which is why I went specifically for the last year of the three-door clubman. It has the upgraded motor that was only added halfway during '13 for the JCWs, and that supposedly fixed a lot of the known engine-related issues. And this car can been bullet-proof, too. Only failures were a rubber trim piece corroded, and the LEDs burned out on the climate control display. 

The problem with what you have is, what you have. You've got a sub model of a sub model of a sub model. For someone like me, that's owned and enjoyed a mini, that's cool. Jcw cars are awesome. The problem is, of the people that are shopping a used mini, few are looking for a clubman. Less give two ducks if it's an s ((probably even less if it's a manual) and even less of those are looking for a works car. It may very well be worth what you're asking, it's a pretty awesome little car. But finding someone that knows what it is, likes it, can drive stick (I still assume it's a manual) and isn't afraid of the labor related to care and feeding of a 7 year difference of mini is not going to be an easy proposition. 

So what would it take for you to get rid of it? I obviously don't know what you paid for it, but if I had an extra paid off car sitting around and a track day car to finish and limited free time, I'd probably be happy to drop it off at the dealer tomorrow for $13k if I think it's only realistically worth $15-16k and is going to take a lot of effort and time to move at that price.

At this point C&B is still very much a buyer's site not a seller's site (unlike BaT which is largely the opposite) so I wouldn't expect a relist to do much better than the first round.

Mndsm nailed it. You might do a hail-Mary and list it with a consignment dealer like Streetside Classics (or similar). That's how my old boss unloaded his oddballl 356 Speedster clone. Took a few months but he got what he wanted out of it.

Mndsm said:

The problem with what you have is, what you have. You've got a sub model of a sub model of a sub model. For someone like me, that's owned and enjoyed a mini, that's cool. Jcw cars are awesome. The problem is, of the people that are shopping a used mini, few are looking for a clubman. Less give two ducks if it's an s ((probably even less if it's a manual) and even less of those are looking for a works car. It may very well be worth what you're asking, it's a pretty awesome little car. But finding someone that knows what it is, likes it, can drive stick (I still assume it's a manual) and isn't afraid of the labor related to care and feeding of a 7 year difference of mini is not going to be an easy proposition. 

Agreed, and aware. I was expecting it to take a while, but the absolute crickets has been a surprise. Well, there have been a couple interested parties, but nothing too serious. I replaced it with an E91 RWD 6MT which is similarly a niche-of-a-niche-of-a-niche car (only 430 imported wagons had both RWD and a manual), so they are in a massive sellers market at the moment. Tax value is only a few grand because *most* 328i's are not worth hardly anything, but, thanks to BaT raising awareness of the wagons, some have gone for stupid high prices. Honestly, I was expected more of that response where someone somewhere was just waiting for a Clubman JCW to pop up, but I am surprised to see that either wasn't in the case or they are waiting on some site I haven't posted in yet. 

dps214 said:

So what would it take for you to get rid of it? I obviously don't know what you paid for it, but if I had an extra paid off car sitting around and a track day car to finish and limited free time, I'd probably be happy to drop it off at the dealer tomorrow for $13k if I think it's only realistically worth $15-16k and is going to take a lot of effort and time to move at that price.

At this point C&B is still very much a buyer's site not a seller's site (unlike BaT which is largely the opposite) so I wouldn't expect a relist to do much better than the first round.

Fair points. All my cars are paid off though, so I am not the type to get itchy for a new one when that happens. I'm just very debt-averse. I am also very principle-driven, so it just irks the living hell out of me to sell something for x when it is worth y. It just seems wrong, and I get so rational it circles back to a little irrational, I guess. 

This type of car sells on the specific forums for that car.  In other words, you need to list it on the Mini forums and facebook groups.  If someone offers you anything sorta close to $15k, take it and call it a day.

docwyte said:

This type of car sells on the specific forums for that car.  In other words, you need to list it on the Mini forums and facebook groups.  If someone offers you anything sorta close to $15k, take it and call it a day.

Yep. To 99.9% of people looking for a MINI, this is just a MINI. You need to find the person that is specifically looking for a Clubman JCW built in the 2nd half of '13. There are literally dozens of people that even know that, so you need to find someone that knows that and is specifically looking for it. So go to where they are if you want to get more money for it, because otherwise, it is just another MINI.

It is a very cool car.  It is a rare car that requires a rare buyer.  Sort of a needle in a haystack.  You just need to find each other.  It will take some additional posts on the internet to find each other.  The FB groups are a good idea even if that is just someone seeing it (who knows and respects what it is) then telling someone else that they should look at the car.  

cyow5 said:

dps214 said:

So what would it take for you to get rid of it? I obviously don't know what you paid for it, but if I had an extra paid off car sitting around and a track day car to finish and limited free time, I'd probably be happy to drop it off at the dealer tomorrow for $13k if I think it's only realistically worth $15-16k and is going to take a lot of effort and time to move at that price.

At this point C&B is still very much a buyer's site not a seller's site (unlike BaT which is largely the opposite) so I wouldn't expect a relist to do much better than the first round.

Fair points. All my cars are paid off though, so I am not the type to get itchy for a new one when that happens. I'm just very debt-averse. I am also very principle-driven, so it just irks the living hell out of me to sell something for x when it is worth y. It just seems wrong, and I get so rational it circles back to a little irrational, I guess. 

I'd totally agree if the dealer was offering you like $8k or you had a loan payoff to cover. But 10-20% to never have to think about it ever again? Sold. Especially on something that's already proven hard to get rid of.

It is a very nice car.  I currently own a '12 S hardtop and truthfully, you are going to need a very specific buyer.  As stated above, most people buying used MINIs these days want it because it is cute, and hopefully an automatic.  I tried to sell mine a couple of years ago and like you, crickets.  The calls I did have they wanted an automatic for their HS son/daughter.  I liked enough I wasn't going to give it away since it is also a low mileage, excellent shape car.  MINIs seem to have fallen out of favor these days, which also doesn't help, and most do not know what a JCW is.  Now, to a very specific person, yours would be a must have.  You just have to find them. 

docwyte said:

This type of car sells on the specific forums for that car.  In other words, you need to list it on the Mini forums and facebook groups.  If someone offers you anything sorta close to $15k, take it and call it a day.

So as @mtn said, to most Mini buyers this is just an overpriced clubman. I got nothing from several pages that had five figure memberships, and the main forum is an absolute ghost town. There are more Minis with eyelashes than Clubman JCWs with a manual, I bet. 

So I have to shop minis for people all the time. That is a 14.5K dealer sale car. Lack of leather kills it for some people, mileage kills if for others, color is the big one. Black is just not a seller on these cars. JCW and manual kill the rest. Is tehre somebody out there for it yes. But not at 16.5K 

wearymicrobe said:

So I have to shop minis for people all the time. That is a 14.5K dealer sale car. Lack of leather kills it for some people, mileage kills if for others, color is the big one. Black is just not a seller on these cars. JCW and manual kill the rest. Is tehre somebody out there for it yes. But not at 16.5K 

I've not seen any from dealers under $16k. Even this one is nearly a twin except having an inferior engine: 

http://atcm.co/S2PVDP/2253dfb1

Any actual examples of a dealer selling an N18 Clubman JCW for under $16k asking?

cyow5 said:

wearymicrobe said:

So I have to shop minis for people all the time. That is a 14.5K dealer sale car. Lack of leather kills it for some people, mileage kills if for others, color is the big one. Black is just not a seller on these cars. JCW and manual kill the rest. Is tehre somebody out there for it yes. But not at 16.5K 

I've not seen any from dealers under $16k. Even this one is nearly a twin except having an inferior engine: 

http://atcm.co/S2PVDP/2253dfb1

Any actual examples of a dealer selling an N18 Clubman JCW for under $16k asking?

 

 

That dealer is not selling a car, he's selling a loan. There's a huge difference. 
 

99.9% of the people that have $16k cash to spend on a car are not looking for a 7 year old, mini. You need to find the guy that is. Looks like you did, by chance, with the auction, but then he bailed. Now you gotta find guy #2. 
 

All of the guides in the world can say it's a $16k car, but they're not writing a check. I would see if the $12,500 from the dealer still stands and say adios. 

In reply to Steve_Jones :

7yo loans are still easy to come by for private sales, so I really don't see what value they are providing. Heck, I prefer dealing with a loan for a private sale since it creates a vested third party that makes sure the transaction goes through. Plus, I've been watching this market as best I can for 18 months and have seen about five good comps come through, and at least one was a private seller a couple months ago, all in the $16k-$16.5k range (asking price, of course). 
 

and yeah, guides suck, but the industry does a good job of hiding sales from the public, so the guides are just another data point. They do have an aspect of influencing prices though since people will reference them, and loans will be limited by them (my credit union will do 110% the Nada value, for example). 
 

maybe I'm just cynical when it comes to dealers. I'd rather sell to an enthusiast who will appreciate the car than make them pay even more through a dealer who doesn't have to do anything to the car. 

I'd contact the original winning bidder and ask if they have any interest in a private sale.  
 

A late model BMW/Mini is a car you lease (new) before it hits the depreciation station list.. It's probably well cared for and a riot to drive. But the reputation on these fun cars is they get out of warranty and then break expensively.

If you are a BMW CCA member try Roundel. 

In reply to cyow5 :

The type of people with good enough credit for a loan on a 7 year old car, are not usually looking for a 7 year old car. It's a catch 22. 
 

In 18 months you have seen 5. That's not many. It's also going back to when it was a 5 year old car, and that makes a difference as well. 
 

I can tell you there are 0 2014s on the market right now, nationwide. 
1 2013 in WA. 1 2012 in TX. Only  from 2012-2014 has run through a dealer auction in the last 12 months, the one in TX did in Feb. 

It's a very niche car, with a limited market, as you've found out. Hopefully your enthusiast is out there, but it's going to take a lot of effort to find him at this point. 
 

All I'm saying on the dealer end is it can sit at your house until you find the guy, or on his lot until he does. If it's going to be his lot, he need to be at a number where it makes sense to have it sit there, it's not going to suddenly disappear in a few weeks. I'd bet that Texas one ends up at auction again soon so the next guy can try. 
 

Edit: this thread just popped up as well

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/cars-sale/2011-mini-clubman-s-for-sale-mine/178878/page1/

I know it's not the same car, but it's close, and $5k. It's been for sale for 5 months now. $5k is much cheaper for a similar car, and it's not selling either