z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
10/3/18 9:20 a.m.

Just curious as I have looked around, but don't know if the work, are worth it, etc. 

I realize someone that REALLY wants to get in, will get in. But smashing glass or multiple attempts to kick in the door (I live on corner lot where I can see the playground for the local elementary) is going to draw attention fast. 

 

Thoughts?

KyAllroad (Jeremy)
KyAllroad (Jeremy) PowerDork
10/3/18 9:26 a.m.

I replace all the door strike screws with 3 1/2” deck screws and call it a day.

it’s enough to discourage a serious kicking but since my house has windows it’s about all I need.

The 80 lb pit bull is certainly the most effective deterrent. (I know, and I didn’t choose him, he chose me)

ProDarwin
ProDarwin PowerDork
10/3/18 9:29 a.m.

I've used the plate reinforcements, but later removed them and just stuck with the 3.5" screws.

The plates are annoying as berkeley because they will pull the doorjamb in if you tighten the screws.  If you dont, then they won't clear the door.  Its a dumb design.  There really isn't a good solution other than people to design doors and jambs right to begin with.

pres589
pres589 PowerDork
10/3/18 9:38 a.m.

They seem like a good way to give the door framing more strength.  Longer screws are nice and this gives them something more rigid to draw against.  I installed one after a break-in along with a lot more shimming and longer screws in a pre-hung door and it felt way more solid when it was all finished.  

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/3/18 9:42 a.m.

I put an armored screen door on our server room - lets lots of ventilation through but prevents unauthorized access. Pretty nicely built steel frame with a door that has expanded metal. The one I picked out doesn't look terrible and it's screwed straight into the joists with one-way screws. If I was worried about locking people out of my front door I'd seriously consider one.

Source: https://www.lowes.com/search?searchTerm=security+screen+door

oldopelguy
oldopelguy UberDork
10/3/18 9:53 a.m.

Hard to argue with the classic apartment bar that notches into a recess in the floor and at an angle to the door.  Pretty much anything else is a joke, particularly if you have windows. 

When I went through fire fighting training once the instructor pointed out that the typical residential wall construction is vinyl siding over 7/16" osb to studs and sheetrock.  His point was that if the door won't kick open easily shoving a boot through the wall next to the door isn't all that difficult.  That always stuck with me whenever I worry about upgrading the security of the house. 

java230
java230 UltraDork
10/3/18 10:34 a.m.

I have windows.... And a sliding glass door. Not too worried about it. I did do a bit of reinforcing to the garage. Deadbolt and door lock are solid blocked and lagged to the stud pack next to the door. Hinges as well. 

The0retical
The0retical UltraDork
10/3/18 10:59 a.m.

3M makes a clear film you can put over the windows which makes it highly impact resistant. Also cuts down the amount of UV that can get into the house reducing your cooling bills.

I've seen the jamb armor but everyone I know in law enforcement says that 3 - 3.5 inch screws are generally enough.

I had the reinforced screen in California. It was pretty nice actually.

 

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
10/3/18 11:39 a.m.

Wedging one of these under the doorknob, cartoon style, is suprisingly effective.

 

Aaron_King
Aaron_King GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
10/3/18 12:17 p.m.

The last time this came up someone, I forget who, suggested the deck screws.  I think he was a locksmith or similar so I went around and did that.  With windows and such I think the deck screws and a dog are about as good as you need.  You don't need to make the house "impenetrable" just more difficult than the next house.

KyAllroad (Jeremy)
KyAllroad (Jeremy) PowerDork
10/3/18 12:31 p.m.

In reply to Aaron_King :

Given that i’m a locksmith and that’s my advice (already in this thread), i’d guess that was me.  Glad to help, that’ll be $20 cheeky

Aaron_King
Aaron_King GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
10/3/18 12:38 p.m.

In reply to KyAllroad (Jeremy) :

Thanks, its in the mail.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt PowerDork
10/3/18 1:29 p.m.

When the Mythbusters episode had Jamie trying to smash down a door, he managed to smash everything except a cheap chain lock - which had been installed with extra long screws. I suspect the length of the chain helped absorb the impact, as well.

The weak point was really the door frame and how the locks attached to it. It seems that a larger striker plate with long screws would be the most effective reinforcement, short of replacing the doorframe itself with metal.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin PowerDork
10/3/18 1:41 p.m.
MadScientistMatt said:

The weak point was really the door frame and how the locks attached to it. It seems that a larger striker plate with long screws would be the most effective reinforcement, short of replacing the doorframe itself with metal.

Yup.  As someone who has had their door kicked in, I can tell you that it wouldn't take much of anything to do it.  Cheap E36 M3ty doorjamb wood is the only thing holding your lock or deadbolt.  Even with 3" long screws, when they have 1" of gap between the load and the stud they are screwed to, an extra kick will make short work of those.

Now if you could find a deadbolt with 1" of engagement it would be pretty easy to make a reinforced block that screws straight to the stud that could take a significant load.

But even then... you can smash the average front door apart without too much more force.

llysgennad
llysgennad New Reader
10/3/18 1:54 p.m.

I've had some experience with this, having been burgled twice. From that, I'd say longer screws are no match for a long pry bar or a really big foot. All it does is make the repairs more involved, having to replace broken studs and drywall. Doors will bend or break, allowing enough of an opening for the system to fail. Wish I still had the pictures. I've got the Door Armor from ArmorConcepts now, and while it is difficult to install so that it doesn't interfere, I think it is a lot stronger. But like most people, I also have windows. If they want in bad enough, they'll get in. The biggest surprise to me was how easy the deadbolt came apart with some pressure. I would make sure they are all Grade 1, Commercial, the highest rating for normal deadbolts. And something to prevent prying.laugh

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia Reader
10/3/18 3:04 p.m.
KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:

In reply to Aaron_King :

Given that i’m a locksmith and that’s my advice (already in this thread), i’d guess that was me.   cheeky

Is there a better Dead bolt ?   Maybe with a longer shaft ?

and what about a metal door and metal frame like a shop would have ?

I have a double keyed dead bolt that I use when I am away , so if someone breaks in thru the window ( or roof) whatever they take is going to need to  be removed thru the window , 

This only helps if the thief  does not have a big crow bar or a Sawsall !

and no I  do not lock myself in the house with the double keyed dead bolt just in case there is a fire etc and I need to get out quick.

java230
java230 UltraDork
10/3/18 3:16 p.m.
ProDarwin said:
MadScientistMatt said:

The weak point was really the door frame and how the locks attached to it. It seems that a larger striker plate with long screws would be the most effective reinforcement, short of replacing the doorframe itself with metal.

Yup.  As someone who has had their door kicked in, I can tell you that it wouldn't take much of anything to do it.  Cheap E36 M3ty doorjamb wood is the only thing holding your lock or deadbolt.  Even with 3" long screws, when they have 1" of gap between the load and the stud they are screwed to, an extra kick will make short work of those.

Now if you could find a deadbolt with 1" of engagement it would be pretty easy to make a reinforced block that screws straight to the stud that could take a significant load.

But even then... you can smash the average front door apart without too much more force.

Agreed, it needs to be blocked to really work. I used a couple layers of different thickness plywood to fill the gap. I don't remember which brand I used last, but it had a 1/8" thick plate and long screws that came with it, then the pretty little trim plate screwed to that with machine screws.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
10/3/18 3:30 p.m.

In reply to californiamilleghia :

Look again at your deadbolt. 99% odds that it has 2 Phillips screws on the inside trim- it’s really easy to dismantle from the inside with a pocket knife. 

Plus it swings in, and the hinges most likely gave removable pins. It’s easy to pop them and remove the door. 

I’m glad you don’t use them when you are inside, but the next guy may. Double cylinder deadbolts are death traps. 

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
10/3/18 3:37 p.m.

A metal door frame in a wood framed wall is not stronger. They are easy to spread. 

A metal door frame in a block wall (like a shop) is a completely different animal. 

Best residential solution?  As others have noted, properly shim the doorframe to the studs and secure the strikes and hinges with long screws. 

Just like the installation instructions say. wink (though I know most guys don't read them!)

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia Reader
10/3/18 3:48 p.m.
SVreX said:

In reply to californiamilleghia :

Look again at your deadbolt. 99% odds that it has 2 Phillips screws on the inside trim- it’s really easy to dismantle from the inside with a pocket knife. 

Plus it swings in, and the hinges most likely gave removable pins. It’s easy to pop them and remove the door. 

I’m glad you don’t use them when you are inside, but the next guy may. Double cylinder deadbolts are death traps. 

I cut off a regular door lock with a sawsall a couple weeks ago when my neighbor looked her key in , plus I had to drill out the back of the phillips head screws , so I know it can be done , 

But if the double lock is activated then the key is in my pocket :)   and the next guy owning this house will own a bulldozer and knock it down to build a couple of new houses , 

The hinges with pins are the weak point , I think the commercial doors do not have pins you can knock out easy , or I can get the Mig welder out !

My problem is not the thief that hits while I go to the store , but one that has 2 weeks while I am on vacation to figure a way inside :(

Maybe I need a trap door and a snake pit under it !

STM317
STM317 SuperDork
10/4/18 8:29 a.m.

Nobody ever considers moats anymore...

KyAllroad (Jeremy)
KyAllroad (Jeremy) PowerDork
10/4/18 8:43 a.m.

In reply to californiamilleghia :

This is a Stanley Best deadbolt.  The bolt throw is 1” and i’m plenty confident in it’s ability to resist an aggressive kicking.

But, yes the hardware is only as good as your door and frame.  My shop has a steel door in a heavy steel frame slushed into a block wall.  The door swings inward but you’d need a blowtorch to get in if I locked you out.

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