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vwcorvette
vwcorvette GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/5/17 4:42 p.m.

So I take the 05 Astro  to the shop I use to get work done I cannot do. In this case State inspection. Now, I am still a state certified inspector so I know the manual, what goes, doesn't go, and know my vehicle. The windshield has two small (less than 4 inches) cracks in non critical areas with no stars. Totally legit. Manual says to advise not reject.

I get the call from the shop that the rear shock sare leaking bad and that with the windshield it won't pass inspection. I thank them for reminding me about the shocks as I was planning on replacing  them but had forgotten, but the windshield should not apply. 

I head over and ask them to show me how the windshield fails. I show the manager my copy of the inspection manual. He agrees, but asks me to replace the shocks before he'll put a sticker on it. No problem.

With the shocks replaced I return on Monday  to drop the van off to complete the inspection. At the end of the day I return and the van is inspected, but the manager says the blower fan doesn't work but he'll let it slide as he figures I'll take care of it. Fair enough. Funny thing is the fan had been working if only on two speeds.

(Still reading?)laugh

Today I decide to tackle the blower motor issue. Inop on all four speeds. Internets say bypass the resistor pack. I begin to check wiring, vacuum lines, etc. I find the blower fan motor unplugged. It's a GM plug. Easily accessable under the hood. I've never worked on it before. These things don't come apart by themselves. Am I wrong to think the tech may have pulled it to get back at me for questioning his inspection? I was a tech for 12 years and worked in the industry for 25. This seems implausible. I find myself always telling people that techs and shops aren't trying to screw with you. But now I'm not so sure.

Would you go speak to the manager with your concerns?

Yes, I'm no easy customer. I do almost all my own work, don't like to be talked down to, am a NYer by birth, and hate being treated as if I don't know what goes on on both sides of the counter. But that's no reason to screw with me.

Am I over thinking this?

 

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
11/5/17 5:12 p.m.

I’d call, and tell him something on the lines of “just thought I’d call and tell you that the fan problem was a simple under hood connector that was disconnected. Odd that it was working fine before. But it was an easy fix....”

not accuse, but surely make him think hard about it. 

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/5/17 5:18 p.m.

Find a new shop. No really it is not them it is you.  You are never going to trust them. No point in going back.  I am an inspector as well and in ma you don’t need defrost/heat never mind a fan to pass inspection. 

Not sure why it was even an issue. Unless NY requires it. 

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess MegaDork
11/5/17 5:28 p.m.

I think I'd be going to a different shop from now on.

Run_Away
Run_Away GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/5/17 5:29 p.m.

IMO you're being a bit paranoid. The tech knows you do your own work and won't be paying for diag/repair. There's zero motivation to do anything like that other than spite.

 

Hope I'm not offending you, but that's just my $0.02 as a flat rate tech. My goal is to get the job done properly and move on to the next paying job, I don't care enough or have the time for petty E36 M3 like that. But I could be wrong, some people don't take criticism well at all. How long have you been using them, and is this the first time you've had issues?

spitfirebill
spitfirebill UltimaDork
11/5/17 5:47 p.m.

I had a somewhat similar experience with a tire store I had used exclusively until they screwed me on a brake job they didn’t really do.  Only reason I have been back was for a lawn mower tire.  

vwcorvette
vwcorvette GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/5/17 6:07 p.m.

Clarification, I'm in Vermont. Defrost required to work.

I use them for all family vehicles and the Driver Ed cars.

It may just be me so no offense taken.

I use them cause the Ford dealership was bad at communicating and these guys (the service writers) are pretty good. They specialize in hybrids and the main DE car is a Fusion hybrid.

I like them.

spitfirebill
spitfirebill UltimaDork
11/5/17 6:44 p.m.

I would still mention it to the owner or manager.  

Apis Mellifera
Apis Mellifera HalfDork
11/5/17 7:01 p.m.

Call me cynical, but I don't trust most people in sales or service industries.  Whether due to negligence, incompetence, or out right malicious intent, I've had this opinion reinforced too many times to be paranoia.  Of course, I work for the government and have hired a lot of contactors from various trades, often for a lot of money and usually for the lowest bid, so expectations are low anyway.

One time though while in my civies, I rented a tow dolly from U-Haul.  I went to pick it up and the guy tried (unsuccessfully) to upsell the insurance several times.  When he was hooking it up, he asked when the last time I towed something with my truck.  I thought that was an odd question, but I answered.  He smiled and looked at his coworker standing beside him.  Cut to 20 minutes later and I'm doing 70 on the highway.  The dolly bounced on a bridge expansion joint and came off the hitch (so I thought).  After the dolly whipped from side to side several times on the safety chains, nearly breaking traction on the truck's rear end, I finally got it stopped.  When I went back to inspect what happened, I found the ball still clamped as usual in the dolly hitch.  The nut had come off the ball.  Either it was just on a few threads or not on at all or the U-Haul guy removed it.  Either way, I suspect he knew it was loose, which is why he asked that odd question.

I also just had a guy charge my wife $70 to peel off the window tint on the two front windows of our Dodge Caravan.  Because "it was 17%".  It took him less than 5 minutes.

If you're sure the blower was plugged in before the service, I'd absolutly call them on it.

Toyman01
Toyman01 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/5/17 7:06 p.m.

Possible scenario, the fan was unplugged to test the resistance on the motor or verify voltage to to motor. The tech recommended replacement and kicked it to the service writer. Then he forgot to plug the motor back in. 

I'd say it's a non issue and don't worry about it. 

vwcorvette
vwcorvette GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/5/17 7:12 p.m.
Toyman01 said:

Possible scenario, the fan was unplugged to test the resistance on the motor or verify voltage to to motor. The tech recommended replacement and kicked it to the service writer. Then he forgot to plug the motor back in. 

I'd say it's a non issue and don't worry about it. 

I don't see this scenario since that's beyond the scope of the inspection. The hood wouldn't need to be opened except to check for emissions control devices still functioning.

joey48442
joey48442 PowerDork
11/5/17 7:22 p.m.

I agree with toyman, or something along those lines. Or the tech bought he’d cycle the plug a few times to see if it was corroded and forgot or didn’t plug it in all the way. Or it’s just one of those bizarre coincidences that just happen. 

Toyman01
Toyman01 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/5/17 7:37 p.m.

They are not just going to do what you want them to. All shops try to up sell. Every single one. The service writer works on commission, the techs get paid based on what they do, and they all get their ass chewed by the owner or management if they don't up sell every vehicle. When a vehicle rolls in for a specific service, they look for other things to sell. Every. Single. Time. For you, it was shocks and a blower motor. It's how they make money. It's the whole reason they give away oil changes at cost or less, to get your ass in the door to sell you other crap. 

Automotive service isn't about fixing cars. It's about selling crap. Just like every other business on the planet. The entire reason they exist is to make money.

Just remember their motives and keep them in mind. People are seldom nefarious, they just want to buy shoes for their kids. Or car parts. 

Except for auto repair shops. Those guys are crooks. wink

EastCoastMojo
EastCoastMojo GRM+ Memberand Mod Squad
11/5/17 7:37 p.m.

 

Listen all y'all, this is sabotage

 

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
11/5/17 8:05 p.m.

You're being paranoid. 

If I wanted to sabotage your car, I would sure as heck do something a lot worse than unplugging the blower fan. 

Mike
Mike GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/5/17 8:19 p.m.

A few years ago, I'd failed my own rule - check the wheel lock situation before buying the car. My car had wheel locks, but no keys. I'd worked on it for a while, but couldn't get the locks off. The tires that came with it were just about to hit the wear bars on all four corners. 

It's a G35 6MT - a reasonably sporty car.

I wanted to throw new tires on it before our first major trip, so I brought it to the folks I thought would be best at removing wheels. I'll call them Rent-A-Rim, but that's not their real name.

I spent over an hour there, and they couldn't get it.

I took the car on the trip anyhow, just hoping I wouldn't get a flat.

I drove about 300 miles at highway speeds on major roads and some very rural routes, where my phone didn't work. A week later (and about 10 miles after my road trip), the right rear lost all air because the only remaining material in the tread area was the inner rubber coating of the belts. The tires were completely bald. I could push my finger straight through in a few spots. The belts were worn through.

Sure, I had worn tires before the trip, but they still had tread all the way around, at least when I inspected before going to rent-a-rim. I wouldn't expect a road trip of a few hundred miles of steady-state highway driving to wear all the tread off, and through the belts. The fronts still looked okay.

I can't prove that I stood around a rent-a-rim shop for an hour just to pay them $50 to fail to remove my wheels and to do burnouts in the neighborhood behind the shop. I suspect, but can't prove.

What will I do? I'm not going back there again. I didn't re-inspect the tires after getting the car back, so I can't prove anything.

If I were you, I'd stop going. You're one customer, you're not making that big a statement. It's more about your trust.

Apple Cougar Mellonseed
Apple Cougar Mellonseed MegaDork
11/5/17 8:20 p.m.

In reply to EastCMojo :

 

pinchvalve
pinchvalve GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/5/17 8:29 p.m.

Are we really asking if a GM part from the 80's can fail? 

Daylan C
Daylan C SuperDork
11/5/17 9:27 p.m.

In reply to pinchvalve :

No that blower motor always works, but only on 4 or 5.

Donebrokeit
Donebrokeit SuperDork
11/5/17 10:00 p.m.

Sorry to say but I have seen the plug trick more than once as another tech was known to do the same shady E36 M3.

The car would come into the shop for a inspection, then the car would and have some random issue (he liked fog lights and blower motors) that would require diag time that the owner would authorize. Then like magic the tech would say he found a broken wire or bad ground and " just took care of it" as he was right there.

 

All this guy was doing was padding the ticket. The management was clueless about this but got enough complaints they let the clown go.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/5/17 11:02 p.m.

The flip side is when you find a good shop promote it.  I just had the rear main seal replaced in my Sierra Denali. I was quoted between 850 and 950 for the job.  When I dropped the truck off I let them know if there was any while you were there items that were under $200 just do it.  I got the truck back and the bill was $923 with tax.  Then I read the invoice and they had not only replaced the seal but also the gasket for the housing the rear main seal is in. The replaced the input and output seals on the trans and the seals on the transfer case. The replaced the trans fluid and serviced the trans. They did an oil change and filter and replaced the bushings in the shift linkage.  They also changed the rear did oil. All this and they were under there high estimate.  Now granted it all should have been done as part of the job but I was not told about it prior to the service.  They just did it. I was thrilled. The truck drives great the trans shifts great and now my truck has zero leaks. 

 

I will I’ll sing the praises of this shop to anyone that will listen.  I am actually looking forward to them doing other repairs like intake manifold gaskets on both of my trucks and also replacing the broken exhaust manifold bolts that have snapped.  

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
11/6/17 6:30 a.m.

I accept the fact that there have been techs that have done things like this. 

I'm just saying that a disconnected plug in an 80's vintage GM car does not prove sabotage, and life is too short to worry about E36 M3 like this. 

ClemCougarSparks
ClemCougarSparks PowerDork
11/6/17 6:46 a.m.

I sell to the repair shops for a living.  

Toyman is right...they are all there to make money.  If you like them, just mention what you found to the manager/service writer and chalk it up to a weird coincidence (or EXACTLY what Toyman said...a little diagnostics and a little absent-mindedness).  

One thing to consider...I have several types of customers but most of them fit into these two categories:

Shops that do lots of oil changes and inspections and need to use those jobs to find more things to fix.  They have the term "ticket average" (the average dollars billet per repair order) in mind as it is a sales directive from the owners of the shop.  They might be busy when conditions are busy and slow when (economic) conditions are slow.

The other type are shops that have a loyal clientele of folks who bring in their car for work and say "Call me when it's done."  These shops are trusted by their customers to keep their cars in the best and safest working order.  These shops provide that service and are usually scheduling a week in advance, wouldn't dare advertise (for fear they would disappoint customers with even longer lead times), and are often in out-of-the-way locations.  They are never slow.

If you like the folks you are using, mention what you found and keep using them (or not, depending on what your feel is after that conversation).  If you decide not to keep using the current shop...just know that there are shops out there that will fit your personality and the way you want your vehicles maintained.  

Do you know who knows every shop, manager, and tech in town and would probably offer a referral?  The people who sell to the people who work on your car.  Tool vendors, parts vendors, uniform service, coffee service, etc.   Ask them (in a private setting) where they would take their personal vehicle for repairs.

NickD
NickD SuperDork
11/6/17 8:48 a.m.

Not saying that vwcorvette is doing this, but as a mechanic I've also seen this go the other way, where customers sabotage their own vehicles and try to blame it on us. Like the guy who called up yelling because ever since we changed the oil and set the tire pressures in his Cadillac, the display screen started acting up and it HAD to be something we did and we had to diagnose it and fix it for free. Or the guy who was insistent that his 2.4L Equinox was burning oil and wanted it rebuilt under warranty and after bringing it in for 10k miles every 1000 miles and finding it full on oil, it then magically shows up one day (shortly before powertrain warranty expired too) and he assures us that its burning oil this time and its 3 quarts low out of nowhere.

 

Also, just curious, what does the Vermont law say on shocks? Because in NY, they only fail if they are physically broke (shaft, mounting point, bushing). Leaking or blown still passes safety inspection, for some reason.

iceracer
iceracer UltimaDork
11/6/17 3:19 p.m.

I have always like taking my '13 Fiesta for work.  How ever I had a bad experience, it had to do with pricing.

I found that I had a leaking rear shock.  I contemplated replacing it myself so I looked up prices.   After looking at the top mount I thought I would pay to have it replaced.   Made an appointment. Took it in. short job so I will wait.   First the adviser tells me they don't have the shock in stock and it will take a couple hours.   So I wait.  When I am cashing out, the invoice says $109 for the shock.   I mentioned this seemed high.   So went home and printed out a page from the Ford website, showing the shocks for $75.  Then I noticed that they used an after market shock, not a genuine Ford part.  NAPA has them for $66. So I went back with my information.   After the SA and the parts guy had a couple discussions I was offered a free oil change. No thanks, I do my own.   I said, just give me a refund to mach the Ford price, done.   I probably could have gone further .   At least all of this is on a Ford site that they ask about my service experience.   I wonder how far it will go.

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