I have a Graco Snugride carrier for my kid, as it's the only thing that fit in the back of a Cooper S. Once he's out of that, he's going into a Recaro.
I have a Graco Snugride carrier for my kid, as it's the only thing that fit in the back of a Cooper S. Once he's out of that, he's going into a Recaro.
Rear facing baby buckets pitch forward nicely when you run into things. Consider emulating Britax on their EU design, with a bar that prevents the bucket from pitching forward.
Center mounting works, if you crank the bucket down hard enough. Something you can only do if you replace the seat belt with an old fashioned type. Then you put your knee in the bucket, your back against the roof, shove with everything you have, while reefing down on the strap. This thoroughly crushes foam in the seat, placing the bucket solidly against the seat bottom.
Don't be surprised if you find yourself driving alone up front, with your wife riding in the back alongside the precious bundle.
foxtrapper wrote: Don't be surprised if you find yourself driving alone up front, with your wife riding in the back alongside the precious bundle.
It's been 3 weeks. The wife is just now riding up front in the suicide seat again. 
foxtrapper wrote: Rear facing baby buckets pitch forward nicely when you run into things. Consider emulating Britax on their EU design, with a bar that prevents the bucket from pitching forward. Center mounting works, *if* you crank the bucket down hard enough. Something you can only do if you replace the seat belt with an old fashioned type. Then you put your knee in the bucket, your back against the roof, shove with everything you have, while reefing down on the strap. This thoroughly crushes foam in the seat, placing the bucket solidly against the seat bottom. Don't be surprised if you find yourself driving alone up front, with your wife riding in the back alongside the precious bundle.
I've also heard that the seat is supposed to pivot forward in an accident. I dunno which is right.
FWIW, the CG Lock is pretty handy for installing car seats and once they get old enough for booster seats. It lets you cinch the belt down REALLY tight and, after being hit pretty hard the CG on my belt didn't budge, so if it works with a 180lb adult...
Agreed on vehicle size. My E36 coupe is more than big enough for road trips for four people once you realize you can get by without the stupid collapsable crib, gigantic diaper bags, etc etc etc.
personaly... what we did for the first few months of both of ours...
buy a baby carrier with a snap in base... we got it along with the stroller... wife and I are both over 6' tall and the smaller strollers are made for women around 2-3' tall i'm fairly certain (just the right height for a tall guy to push around if he likes walking on his knees...)
anyway the baby carrier is nice... they are designed to "lock in" to the the car base... into the stroller, and into the karts at the super market (don't be an idiot and put them in the basket... it's MADE to snap in facing you where the kid will sit when they get a little older)... also nice that they are made to rock... you're not always at home and you don't always want to hold the little un....
these carriers are nice as you can toss the kid in at the house before you bundle them up (if it's cold where you are) and no pulling them out to get them into the car... or out of the car and such...
as for the "rocking"... they are DESIGNED to not be super solid into the seat... and i've never had a prob with even the newer 3 point belts as long as you use the clips included with the seat (although a basic lap belt is easier to get it fitted)... you are to keep the handle DOWN while in the car so that the seat can "roll" into the back of the seat and become a shell in case of a rear end accident... if you aren't sure just take it to a local fire department or something along those lines where they will install it for you properly and for free...
note that there are height limits on the different car seats... our daughter outgrew the carrier around 3 months (6'4 dad, 6'2ish mom)... had we done more research before hand we would have gotten one that would have worked a little longer...
we moved to a britax... it was HUGELY bulky especially rear facing but designed to be both rear facing and forward facing for up to the point kids don't need to be in a car seat any more
and tuna is right... when you hit that magic kid #3 is when the larger car becomes more of a need... but we had no issue with the a 2dr neon with the both of ours... nit necessarily fun but completely doable...
on a side note... my sister is one of those crazy "safety moms?... she posted something from the UK... apparently there is a push to have reward facing car seats untill 4 y/o... rollseyes
Until we got a car with the Latch things in it we used one of these:
They work well as long as you follow the directions. If you want shoot me a mailing address and I will send one off to you.
Oh, and if you need extra room, those baby carrier seats can be installed without the base. That's the most compact way to fit a rear facing seat in the car. Best way to go with my E36 without having it right up against the back of the driver's seat (and I'm only 5'10"). ONLY way to go in a Miata.
P.S. Babies love Miatas.
When I was a kid, this was a properly installed car seat.
Well we are going to keep the Fit since I'm sure it's a safe car, it's reliable, it gets good mileage, it's paid for, and it can fit plenty. I'm not certain it can fit our kid, large dog, and rabbit + our things for a weekend at the in-laws' cottage, however.
I bought the Element thinking ahead, but I've been unhappy with its ground clearance for two-tracks. The rear seats are two, split 50-50, that sit way back from the driver - great for adults but may be problematic with the child at times. And finally, the Element doors swing super wide - the front doors are quite long and the rears are clamshell doors so you have to open the fronts all the way to access the rear properly, so it's not the most parking lot friendly. Also it's not getting the best mpg - about 23 on average.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'm beginning to think the Element may not be baby friendly, and there may be other vehicles that fit our needs. For newer cars I'm thinking Mazda5 or Subaru Forester. The Forester would be a great up north car, with more clearance than the Element's and more capable on two-tracks, and it would get better mpg to boot.
Any other cars I am missing that have decent ground clearance, decent fuel economy, fit a dog, two adults, a baby and some gear, and cost under $15k used?
Babies- You spend the first two years getting them to walk and talk, the next 15 getting them to sit down and shut up.
bastomatic said: Any other cars I am missing that have decent ground clearance, decent fuel economy, fit a dog, two adults, a baby and some gear, and cost under $15k used?
Like I said, we roll the Forester and love it (we have a 2-year old and a 100 lb retriever -- we use a soft roof-top carrier for long trips with the whole family), but you could also go with the CRV, Escape, Outback/Legacy, 1st gen Xterra (although MPG is low, same with 4runner).
Both the cars that the kiddo is in in our case are LATCH equipped, and we have the snap in bases. Super slick stuff. LOTS easier than belting him into the Prizm. Which reminds me, i need to get my base out of the ms3 before I mothball it for the winter. For the record, I cant get the seat in the middle of either DD car, so it's on the passenger side... and I wedge the passenger seat to it. Wife generally sits in back so she can mess with kiddo anyhow.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: When I was a kid, this was a properly installed car seat.
That car seat has more metal in it than most modern cars.
Look for a car seat where the cover comes off without too much effort -- babies puke a lot, and the cover WILL need washing. We've owned about 8 different car seats and one of them required you to take 10 screws out of the back and completely unthread the belts to get the cover off.
The standard big box stores usually carry a bunch of brands that all cost about the same (Graco, Evenflo, BabyTrend, etc), plus one that's significantly more expensive (Britax). We've bought a few of the Britax, and IMHO the extra money is worth it. They're better made, easier to install, easier to use, and a lot more convenient. They're also larger and accomodate kids to an older age.
Installing the seats properly isn't trivial, there's no pre-tensioner on the LATCH straps, so it needs to be snugged into the seat fairly tightly. IIRC, the CHP did a study and concluded that some absurd percentage of car seats (like 90%) were either installed incorrectly or adjusted incorrectly, greatly reducing the utility.
Yes, rear-facing seats are huge, and yes, center is safer. Center also helps with the huge part, since the child seat can poke forward between the two front seats, so you don't wind up with the passenger's knees in the glovebox just so you can fit the rear-facing seat behind it. Unfortunately, center also makes it really uncomfortable for an adult to sit in one of the rear seats, since most cars aren't wide enough for that.
Shortly before our second child was born, we traded my wife's Focus wagon for an Odyssey. It's amazing how much easier it is to install a car seat in one of those vs the Focus or my S4. Haven't put one in the Miata yet, it's got race seats and the LATCH clips on the child seats are too small to go over the eyebolts for the 6-point harnesses. :)
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: When I was a kid, this was a properly installed car seat.
how did we ever survive? i mean, there's not even an airbag on that steering wheel..
True, but at least the kid learns to drive at a very early age :)
When my wife was pregnant with our first son we purchased a new 03 Forester (5 spd xs). We put on 120K miles with only needing to do maintenance. At 36k we replaced the factory tires with Mich Hydroedge and those were still on it when we traded it for my Elantra in May. If I was going to keep it I would have had to replace the A/C clutch, and struts, but otherwise reliable and no rust issues even with living its life in New England.
That worked well with front facing and rear facing seats and the Latch system made installations easier. If you read the owners manual the only locations they mention for installation are driver or passenger side, no mention of center. But interestingly enough there was a roof mount for the center as well as driver and passenger to attach the upper strap of the latch system.
That had sufficient room for the most part, although you will find the strollers that come as part of the systems with the carrier, base, and stroller take up a large amount of space. We found the Kooper was a great alternative once out of the carrier. Folds small like an umbrella stroller, but had the ruggedness of the larger system stroller.
We went to a Minivan last year. The mileage is less than the forester (17 vs 23 mpg around town), but the extra room is great. Plus if the weather is bad there is enough room to climb into the back with the kids and get them buckled rather than standing there with my backside getting soaked in the rain.
On a side note: I would not recommend the carriers rated for heavier/longer babies unless there have been changes in the last 2 years.
With our second son we went with one of the Graco 32 model carriers that was rated for heavier/longer babies than the standard one thinking it could be used longer.
The problem was it didn't fit in the carriages at stores the way the standard ones do, and didn't fit into the highchair bases at restaurants . The extra size also limited the available covers for winter, and made it a tighter fit in the car.
bastomatic wrote: Well we are going to keep the Fit since I'm sure it's a safe car, it's reliable, it gets good mileage, it's paid for, and it can fit plenty. I'm not certain it can fit our kid, large dog, and rabbit + our things for a weekend at the in-laws' cottage, however. I bought the Element thinking ahead, but I've been unhappy with its ground clearance for two-tracks. The rear seats are two, split 50-50, that sit way back from the driver - great for adults but may be problematic with the child at times. And finally, the Element doors swing super wide - the front doors are quite long and the rears are clamshell doors so you have to open the fronts all the way to access the rear properly, so it's not the most parking lot friendly. Also it's not getting the best mpg - about 23 on average. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'm beginning to think the Element may not be baby friendly, and there may be other vehicles that fit our needs. For newer cars I'm thinking Mazda5 or Subaru Forester. The Forester would be a great up north car, with more clearance than the Element's and more capable on two-tracks, and it would get better mpg to boot. Any other cars I am missing that have decent ground clearance, decent fuel economy, fit a dog, two adults, a baby and some gear, and cost under $15k used?
Based experiences with our Fit, I'd almost gaurantee you can fit all your stuff into it for the weekend trip you describe. It won't feel limo like, but you won't feel like you're stuffed into a clown car either.
If you don't like the Element because you just don't like the car, that's one thing. But you really should fit a car seat into it before you condemn it for the back seat being too far away. You'll be surprised. I can reach into the center row of my minivan, and I gaurantee that's as far away as the Elements back seat, if not further. The Forester isn't going to get better mileage than the Element. I don't know first hand, but I'd bet it'll be worse. As nice of a car as the Forester is, it's heavy, shaped like a box and is AWD.
+
= Baby safety
Kinda like
jstand wrote: On a side note: I would not recommend the carriers rated for heavier/longer babies unless there have been changes in the last 2 years. With our second son we went with one of the Graco 32 model carriers that was rated for heavier/longer babies than the standard one thinking it could be used longer. The problem was it didn't fit in the carriages at stores the way the standard ones do, and didn't fit into the highchair bases at restaurants . The extra size also limited the available covers for winter, and made it a tighter fit in the car.
We did some extensive testing of baby seats for that very reason, because we were worried that those monstrosities would not fit in the Mini. Good thing we did, because I was bent on a Graco 35, and the 22 was about the only one that fit back there. Can't WAIT til we have to start loading him into a car seat instead of the carrier, that's gonna be a mess and is a short 7lbs away.
You do NOT want a baby bucket to rock when you crash. Here's why.
If a bucket rocks forward, the only thing left holding the infant in place is the shoulder harness. Infants are small and highly flexible. As such, their shoulders can slip easily out from under the straps. Then, the infant shoots forward and splatters into the dashboard of the car, head first. This will likely result in serious injury or death of the infant.
If the bucket is braced and does not rock forward, the infant is pressed against the back of the bucket during the crash. The harness holds the infant in place against the bucket, but the impact load is taken by the bucket, not the straps and the infants shoulders. The infant is far more likely to remain in the bucket, and not be injured or killed.
foxtrapper wrote: Infants are small and highly flexible.
I wonder if they can be trained to work on Japanese cars.
pinchvalve wrote: My son is due in oh...14 days. Nothing that I used for my Daughter (now 12) is legal, so I had to start all over again. The only thing that I can suggest is that you carry the kid around in the car seat A LOT. They basically have a handle for the first few months, so make sure you get a good handle. I test-carried every model out there, with weight in it, with both hands, slipped over my arm (elbow carry) and so on. The only design that I could tolerate in every position and grip was this one:The rubberized triangle handle is really a revolution in car seat technology. (did I really just write that?) Plus it has cool racing stripes and is the Grand Prix model!
My girlfriend and I bought this one. It was great.I thought it was lightweight and not bulky and awkward. Very easy to carry in the stores, etc. it also fit into the shopping carts and high chairs at restaurants very nicely.Our son out grew it by the time he was 10 months old.
FYI: We have a chicco keyfit 30 in our fit and it works great. We bought the 3-in-1 deal that comes w/base and stroller. Put that sucker in the car BEFORE baby comes. Our little bundle of awesome came 3 weeks early. On 30 something hours w/o sleep, I was fumbling around in a 100 degree hospital parking lot trying to hook the 'latch' things to the luggage hooks.
Mamma rides comfortably up front w/baby behind. Daddy would have his knees in the dash though. Stroller fits perfectly in the hatch.
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