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logdog
logdog GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/11/15 8:41 p.m.

The housing inspection was yesterday so I got to spend today in Scranton. I figured I would check some of the local attractions. I went to one of the self serve junk yards I found online (D's). I was pretty disappointed. The cars were mostly sitting on the ground with weeds growing through them. They were pretty picked over. I was hoping to find an OEM shift knob for the Chumpcar and came up empty handed.

I then figured I should check out whatever the closest local roundy round track was. I ended up at Hamlin Speedway. They seem to focus on mini sprints. I always enjoy the 4 cylinder/pony classes at dirt tracks the best but sprints are cool too. I had a good time and will go back. I didnt stay the whole night but I did stay long enough to enjoy a couple feature races and a giant hot dog.

nepa03focus
nepa03focus HalfDork
7/11/15 8:50 p.m.

If your in Hamlin there is a good bbq place there called kundulas or something like that

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
7/11/15 10:40 p.m.

Go to the Waymart Hotel for BBQ. Kundulas will be packed with NY lake traffic.

http://www.waymarthotel.com/

I cannot remember which weekday nite... but every guy with a cool car in NE PA descends on the place once a week for smoked ribs.

iceracer
iceracer PowerDork
7/12/15 11:19 a.m.

Just a plug for upstate (rural) NY. In my town, nice old homes can be had for less than 100K. So taxes aren't that bad. For fun, there are three dirt tracks in short drives, plus a dirt kart oval. Lots of lakes for recreation and the freeze in the winter, so ice racing. 4 miles to the Thruway,I90.

I know, it is a little off subject but most people, when they hear New York, think city.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
7/12/15 11:25 a.m.

In reply to iceracer:

Where are you located? I spend a good bit of time at the Glan, and riding the finger lakes or out in the Catskills. I'm taking the bike to a track day at NYST next week and moto camping. If it were not for the mosquito and the government, upstate NY would be just about perfect 7mos out of the year.

logdog
logdog GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/12/15 1:31 p.m.

What is this "Sweet Bologna" I see in the store? Is it what it sounds like? Is it the bologna version of honey ham?

nepa03focus
nepa03focus HalfDork
7/12/15 7:45 p.m.
logdog wrote: What is this "Sweet Bologna" I see in the store? Is it what it sounds like? Is it the bologna version of honey ham?

Is it Lebanon bologna? If it is, try some it's good. But takes some getting used to.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
7/12/15 7:54 p.m.

I'm not sure but the local poles make pickled bologna in hot and sweet. It is not to be dismissed. Pair with beer. Have fresh horseradish on hand.

iceracer
iceracer PowerDork
7/13/15 10:52 a.m.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: In reply to iceracer: Where are you located? I spend a good bit of time at the Glan, and riding the finger lakes or out in the Catskills. I'm taking the bike to a track day at NYST next week and moto camping. If it were not for the mosquito and the government, upstate NY would be just about perfect 7mos out of the year.

I'm not to far from the NYST. Almost ran a track day there. I'm north east 30+- miles.

Hal
Hal SuperDork
7/13/15 3:51 p.m.
nepa03focus wrote:
logdog wrote: What is this "Sweet Bologna" I see in the store? Is it what it sounds like? Is it the bologna version of honey ham?
Is it Lebanon bologna? If it is, try some it's good. But takes some getting used to.

Lebanon bologna - Spread one slice with thin layer of cream cheese, put another slice of bologna on top and repeat for 5 layers with plain slice of bologna on top. Cut into wedges like you would a pizza. Makes great appetizers.

daytonaer
daytonaer HalfDork
7/13/15 11:36 p.m.
logdog wrote: I went to one of the self serve junk yards I found online (D's). I was pretty disappointed.

check out harrys in hazelton

iceracer
iceracer PowerDork
7/18/15 11:30 a.m.

I'm surprised in all of this that no mentioned Pocono International Raceway.

They have three track day courses, sometime all running at the same time.

I have run two of them.

And of course there are races.

logdog
logdog GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
8/1/15 6:21 p.m.
daytonaer wrote:
logdog wrote: I went to one of the self serve junk yards I found online (D's). I was pretty disappointed.
check out harrys in hazelton

I didn't go home this weekend so to pass some time I made a trip to Harrys. That place is amazing! Its huge and the cars were not all picked clean. It looks like they move a lot of inventory. Plus the prices are cheaper than the other yards I've visited over the last few years.

Thanks for the recommendation!

logdog
logdog GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
8/1/15 6:28 p.m.

I liked how they used crushed cars for walls.

nepa03focus
nepa03focus HalfDork
8/1/15 6:43 p.m.

I haven't been to Harrys in a few years, but I remember it being great.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/1/15 10:34 p.m.
logdog wrote: I recently accepted a new job that will require relocating from sunny and warm Michigan to sunny and warm Pennsylvania or New York. I will be in charge of a territory roughly defined in this high quality phone art. I need to live somewhere in that region. Being centrally located and close to an interstate are preferred. It looks like cost of living is cheaper in PA so I am leaning that direction. Plus PA doesnt require a front plate I know we have several GRMers that are either in these areas or used to live in them before moving some place cold and gray like Florida. Where are the good spots? Places that are car guy friendly. We have horses so I need to find someplace horse friendly as well. What the deal with vehicle inspections (never had to deal with those before). Somebody told me I had to get my trailers inspected too. What sort of weird local customs do I need to be aware of (like how in MI everybody points at their palm to describe location and the only place anybody visits is "up north"). Can I actually get iced tea without it coming from the soda fountain? Do they generically call diners "Coney Islands"? I've got several months before I start looking for a new house and I want to spend some time in the area before making the final decision. I just want to identify a few places to start.

Not sure where you are in MI, but keep in mind that (as the yellow interstate lines suggest) much of PA is far more rural than you might think. There are a thousand tiny towns, but the only really Metropolitan areas are Philly and Pittsburgh. Since most people are responding with "oh ___ville is wonderful and they have a nice lake...", I am going to be comically vicious to present the dark side of things. But, remember I'm being flippant and emphatically blunt to prove a point and maybe make you laugh.

Pittsburgh is relatively big, but about the only culture is when the toothless trashy folks wear their clean Steelers jacket and pink stretch pants to go to a fancy dinner at Olive Garden. The roads are terrible, the town is impossible to navigate (and I lived there for years), and regardless of what month it is, it always looks like a grey winter day. When the Grimm Reaper comes and takes a person to Purgatory, its actually Pittsburgh. Its just that you're dead and invisible, which could be a blessing. Come to think of it, if you live there, you will likely feel dead and invisible. Pittsburgh is slowly (very slowly) coming out of a 40-year hell. When the steel industry left, they gave everyone terrible retirements which they use to drink PBR on the front porch of their 1920s shack that hasn't had a new roof or paint since 1935. There are entire sections of town full of once-great victorian townhomes that are complete tenement slums.

Philly has some nice culture if you like pretentious anus-like jerks who think their town is the greatest just because its slightly better than Pittsburgh. The famous Philly Cheesesteaks are worshiped for their mediocrity; a bunch of shredded beef fat cooked perfectly to a flavorless cardboard consistency on a soggy bun with some burned onions and some sauce. They are horrible. The streets are all one-way and they go the opposite way of where you are headed. Despite being a stone's throw from great coastal seafood, the food is awful. Getting a good meal requires that you get a second mortgage and go to a ritzy place that looks like it should be in Manhattan, but its twice as rude and parking is even worse. Plus you have the whole Eagles thing. Ew.

Allentown is a land of sub-poconos mountain glory, except that the mountains were all hacked in half for mining and left to the local teens to decorate with cans of spray paint. The part of the mountains that isn't solidified by layers of enamel simply erodes away making the rivers a flow of sludge and sewage. People in Allentown also must have forgotten that they have the opportunity of driving somewhere else, because if they had, they would realize how E36 M3ty their lives are and never gone back.

I grew up in Carlisle, just west of Harrisburg. It is a great town, but very camo. I hunt and own camo clothing, but a lot of people here ONLY seem to have camo and they wear it EVERYWHERE in their rusty Dodge pickups with a sticker of Calvin praying in front of a cross. Harrisburg is the same thing but with Toyota pickups instead.

Many of the towns up the 81 corridor toward Scranton/Wilkes-Barre are similarly back-woodsy small towns.

PA has some exquisite beauty. Just a lazy trip down a country road reveals some amazing properties and views. If you want some seclusion and don't need a metropolitan area (and can tolerate the rednecks), PA has some of the most spectacular values I've ever seen. Pittsburgh is dirt cheap. The house I bought there in 2011 was a 3/2 on over an acre and it was $51,900. It was a nice partially wooded lot 7 miles from downtown. My favorite counties (for scenic property and value) include Perry, Cameron, Juniata, Potter, Indiana, Elk, Venango, Tioga, Lancaster, Adams. Cumberland county is where Carlisle is and has some incredible properties, but for some reason they are VERY disproportionately high.

New York state can basically be a copy and paste of above, but taxes will be nearly double and every tiny one-horse town has more cops than residents. I don't mind having a lot of police, but I think I wouldn't be happy with my significant tax dollars going to pay for that much redundancy. I'm not sure how taxes are in MI, but PA is not a cheap state for taxes, nor is it particularly cheap for auto insurance (although mine has always been pretty cheap).

The nice thing about upstate NY; your Michigan accent would go mostly un-noticed. They talk very similarly to you.

If you do PA, you will be introduced to the wonder of Sheetz. Its a convenience store with great food. Rutters is a central PA rival of Sheetz and is fantastic, but its an also-ran. While you're here, if you order a coke, you get a coke... as in coca-cola or pepsi. Some places in MI if I recall correctly do the same thing as the south where "coke" is interchangeable with soda.

Central PA (which most typically describes the south-central part of the state; Chambersburg, Lancaster, Harrisburg, up to State College) is full of Amish. Hence the Scrapple. I like it a lot. When you slaughter a pig, you throw the bones and edible organs in a big vat of boiling water. Some (like me) only use the heart and liver, but honestly you can't taste organ meat. You are basically making a big pork broth and also cooking all the little morsels of leftover meat off the bones. Then you take out the bones and throw in a bunch of corn meal and some salt and pepper. It solidifies into a kind of Polenta loaf which you slice and fry. Most people eat it with a little syrup on it, but ketchup is also common.

Because of the Amish influence you'll also see a lot of Chicken and Dumplings, Shoo-fly pie (think of it like a pecan pie minus the pecans and add molasses), and other very Americana type foods like ham and bean soup and stewed tomatoes. Cole slaw around here is almost always the creamy type with mayo and sugar and rarely the vinegar type. Another thing you'll likely encounter is a BBQ sandwich. What most people call Sloppy Joes we here in central PA call beef BBQ. You'll find that hoagies/grinders/subs are all sometimes terms used to describe a long sandwich, but subs is the more common term. Some parts of western PA still say Pop instead of Soda, but either one will get you a carbonated beverage... although "pop" might get you a couple teasing chuckles.

Let's see what else. Full service gas stations are a rarity and gas is pretty expensive these days. It used to be that PA was pretty low and NY was high, now they are about the same. NY is still a couple cents more expensive.

PA is a little odd with its beer and liquor; you can't buy it at convenience stores or grocery stores. There is legislation in the works to privatize liquor sales, but its slow. Beer can be bought at beer distributors. Most bars/pubs also sell 6 and 12 packs. Liquor is strictly at state-operated liquor stores. There are also strange laws that only allow you to carry 6 beers at a time to your car, so don't be surprised if you get two 6-packs at a bar and they ask you to take one at a time out to your car. At beer distributors, they will often carry it out to your trunk for you and drive-through distributors are common for that reason. It is a very loosely-enforced law so don't expect it, just know that it might happen. Beer is pretty cheap. Liquor is on the cheaper end of the spectrum, but not Maryland or Wisconsin cheap. Bars must close at 2am. PA has a loose no-smoking law but each town is widely different. For instance in Carlisle there is a no-smoking law for any bar/restaurant, but bars can get an exemption permit to allow smoking. The state law generally defines no smoking in any public building or within 15 feet of the entry door.

Right turns are allowed on red unless otherwise marked (as in all 50 states). PA also allows left turns on red as long as you are going from a one-way TO a one-way street. Expect drivers to stop on freeway entrance ramps. They might have a half a mile to merge, but they'll go up to the highway and stop sometimes. One little hint: We have hills. Lots of them. Big ones. One thing that tends to frustrate PA drivers is that "flatlanders" can't do hills. It never fails. You can follow a car for 20 miles doing 55, then suddenly on a hill they are going 35. Never fails, the license plate says Michigan or Kansas or Louisiana. We also have a fair number of Buicks with blue-haired wrinkly ladies driving 40 on the highway. Central PA also has a very large number of Amish buggies. Its easy. Just pass when you can. Although the horses are accustomed to it, I like to pass leisurely with a wave. You'll never get a wave back, but I see no reason to flaunt technology to a neighbor who is already potentially disdainful of cars in the first place. I know you have some Amish out there too, but its a bit different here. Lancaster county on a Sunday Morning is like an Amish ant hill that has been kicked. Little black and grey buggies all over the place. Don't buy a book about PA Amish people. I have yet to read one that has any truth in it at all. I know many Amish, but what I learn from them is pointless, because five miles over is a completely different sect that drives cars and uses phones. Then over the mountain is another sect that won't even talk to "fancy" folk.

If you do consider Carlisle, don't do it specifically for the car-friendly part. We do have the largest swap meets on the east coast. The Carlisle shows are massive and awesome, but the town itself isn't huge on car stuff. There are plenty of car-related shows and cruise-ins in the central PA area, but despite being host to the big shows, Carlisle isn't much more of a car town than anywhere else in PA.

Both states teeter on the red/blue line politically; NY often tips red and PA often tips blue, but don't mistake that for an actual political timbre. A PA or NY democrat is more conservative than a CA republican. Although the vote sometimes goes blue, their hearts here are typically red, just like their necks.

Ok... I'm really getting tired. I grew up here and I have traveled a lot, in both NY and PA, so if you have any cultural/geographic/etc questions about it, give me a yell.

neon4891
neon4891 UltimaDork
8/2/15 7:02 a.m.

Great write up Cutis.

Back to logdog, if motorcycles interest you, check out NA Warhorse. Fairly large with a bit of everything, even an in house custom shop. It's just off of 81 in Dunmore, north of Scranton.

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
8/3/15 7:40 a.m.

In reply to curtis73:

Having lived in PA since 1980 (and moved here from Georgia), I pretty much agree with that. I will say I like Philly compared to other major cities I've visited. Yes, the one-way streets are annoying at times, but you get used to them. A simple relic of the city being built during the horse and buggy era and it's really just in the down-town section. After awhile you find it's really a very easy city to understand and get around in. There are also large sections of the city that look more like suburbs, which is nice. Great park system too, with some of the best mountain biking trails on the east coast. It's actually a fairly bike-friendly city in general - I think the one-way streets and many stop signs and lights help since bikes pretty much go the same speed as cars do.

To me Carlisle is sort of like Watkins Glen. While there's a big car-influx often, the locals in general seem ambivalent. Of course, around Watkins Glen, the main industry in wine, so cars are more of a side-show. Hell, even when I went to the Vintage Grand Prix, for the last few years it really became more of a winery tour, wine buying trip that finished up with a car event.

One last thing to remember about PA is it has the largest rural population (by numbers, not percentage) of any state in the Union. It's a big state and most of it is rural and is either farm land or State Game Lands, but fairly densely populated compared to mid-west or western "rural". One note about hunting. It's big here. The first day of deer season is essentially a state holiday.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/3/15 4:35 p.m.

In reply to Ian F:

Agree in every way. Especially with the hunting part. Our Thanksgiving vacations in school always included the monday after; the first day of deer season.

One of the benefits of the rural setting here is that (since it is mostly rural) some of the larger cities/towns have cheap property very near some hustle and bustle. Philly is a large enough city that property doesn't get cheap until way outside of town, but Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, Scranton/WB, and others have cheap rural surroundings.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/3/15 6:08 p.m.

Ok... looking at your "territory" and your desires, I will give you some of my ideas of where I would like to live given your parameters. DSL has reached everywhere I can think of in PA except the real boonies. Suffice it to say that if you're close enough to an interstate to fill that requirement, you'll have DSL available.

State College/Bellefonte PA. Not only is it lovely scenery, it is a nice mix of friendly rural and college town progressiveness, PSU is a huge Ag school with (if I recall correctly) an equestrian veterinary program. PSU is like PA's agricultural research hub. Nearby is also Centre Hall PA. Quaint and neat. To the north is nothing but state forests full of ridiculously beautiful scenery all the way to the NY border. Your nearest "big" city is Harrisburg which is two hours, but State College has all the stuff you need (including a couple TSCs). Both State College and Bellfonte are very old towns with a lot of beautiful architecture.

Lancaster, PA. Talk about rural. Its flat... well, flat by PA standards. But its full of rolling hills and large Amish farms. Lancaster has a thriving produce industry and a fair amount of arts. There are several huge Christian theaters (if that's your thing) there that do large productions of biblical stories. I have seen several and they are seriously high-budget, wonderful productions. You'll never be without an equestrian fix since half the population of Lancaster county is listed as "Amish horse." You know how mushrooms are grown in Horse poop? Well, its no coincidence that south eastern PA is one of the largest producers of mushrooms in the country.

Bedford or Somerset, PA. These two towns are, um... let's just say they're conservative about everything but their Elvis record collection. Fulton, Bedford, and Somerset counties are the West Virginia of PA. Hunting and rusty pickups are their religion. If you like Beehive haircuts, you'll find some there. Not kidding. If you are into boating, Raystown lake is about halfway between Bedford and State College.

Something else to consider (and this may not be an issue...I'm not a horse guy) but consider terrain. Looking at the map of PA at the very bottom of this post, everything south and east of the pink line is Piedmont; relatively flat with rolling hills. There is a large chance that your 2-5 acres will be flat and pasturable. Here is a representative look at the Lancaster area piedmont:

Now if you look between the pink and red lines, that is mountain territory. This region is typically mountains that are 1000-2000 ft ASL with 10-30 miles between them of rolling hills. In fact, the land between the mountains looks much like the top image above

Here is a photo or two. Ignore the shirtless dude. This guy is standing at Sterrett's Gap which is 930 ft ASL. The photo looks south east over the Cumberland Valley. If the camera panned left 10 degrees you would see Carlisle. (where I live) If it panned left 30 degrees, you would see Harrisburg. The Cumberland valley is basically the valley that holds I-81. So this mountain is just to the left of the pink line. There is one more broken mountain to the south of the Cumberland Valley, then its piedmont. A little side note; if you look in this photo, there is a road coming out of this guy's butt going to the left. I live on that road about 5 miles further left. That is PA 944 just west of Carlisle if you're curious.

Between the red and yellow lines is Ridge territory. When you get this far west, there is still plenty of pasturable land. This area would include Bedford, Altoona, and State College. Out here, the ridge peaks are not as high and they're only 1/4 mile to 5 miles apart.

West of the yellow line and south of I-80 is the Highlands. This is like a bunch of random mini-mountains with some flat/rolling area. Pittsburgh itself is an area of large elevation changes and very little flat area. People in Pittsburgh own Subarus just to get up their driveways. As you get far north west, things flatten out a bit on the way to Ohio, but that is well outside your range.

I only mention all of this because many people (especially someone from MI) might not realize the many geological and topographical regions of PA. This might help you figure out some of PA's areas and where you might want to live. I also point this out because its possible that as you go west in your red circle, your chances of finding a good 2-5 acres to include horse pasturing will decrease a little.

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