On that stretch of road, at night, I would do no less than 70 mph for safety reasons. For those who have never been, traffic flow in metro Detroit is fast, faster in Detroit proper, I've caught myself doing 20-30 over the limit(55) on M10 and still getting passed a couple times a minute.
Kenny_McCormic wrote: On that stretch of road, at night, I would do no less than 70 mph for safety reasons. For those who have never been, traffic flow in metro Detroit is fast, faster in Detroit proper, I've caught myself doing 20-30 over the limit(55) on M10 and still getting passed a couple times a minute.
Dude, I know. I75 South, headed to the auto show in a buds crapbox. I fell asleep.
I woke up to buzzing.
Speedo was bouncing off 95
We were in the right lane, getting passed.
By a minivan.
For the record Driver Education in most states DOES cover interstate travel. The unfortunate thing is DE teaches more than what most states require to pass the drive test. And, most people DO NOT go thru DE. Don't blame Driver Education, blame the regulators who dumb down the tests so as many as possible can get their license.
vwcorvette wrote: For the record Driver Education in most states DOES cover interstate travel. The unfortunate thing is DE teaches more than what most states require to pass the drive test. And, most people DO NOT go thru DE. Don't blame Driver Education, blame the regulators who dumb down the tests so as many as possible can get their license.
This! California requires an A or B in DE (or did 19 years ago anyway) to get the certificate to hire a driving instructor. After 8 or 10 hours of on road time with just you and the instructor. No parents, no radio, etc with them they administered a driving test. You fail? You started the process over again. Pass and you could go to the dmv with proof of insurance and a parent to get your learners permit. BTW it was good for 6 months, at the end of 6 months you could take another written and on road test. Let your grades slip, get caught skipping school, or piss your parents off enough to get them to call the dmv were all good ways to loose your license or permit.
yamaha wrote: What you all are seeing is the result of basically proving you are breathing and thus getting issued a drivers license. I wish something like street survival was required for all licensees every 2-3 years....
I had heard on the radio that in New York almost half the people who take their road test fail. I can't imagine how bad they must be.
Wally wrote:yamaha wrote: What you all are seeing is the result of basically proving you are breathing and thus getting issued a drivers license. I wish something like street survival was required for all licensees every 2-3 years....I had heard on the radio that in New York almost half the people who take their road test fail. I can't imagine how bad they must be.
Judging by what I've seen from cars with NY plates... pretty bad.
vwcorvette wrote: For the record Driver Education in most states DOES cover interstate travel. The unfortunate thing is DE teaches more than what most states require to pass the drive test. And, most people DO NOT go thru DE. Don't blame Driver Education, blame the regulators who dumb down the tests so as many as possible can get their license.
going back 25 years to my memories of DE.. they seemed more interested in teaching us that one glass of beer was equal to a shot, was equal a glass of wine in alcohol and what the traffic infractions were worth in points
mad_machine wrote:vwcorvette wrote: For the record Driver Education in most states DOES cover interstate travel. The unfortunate thing is DE teaches more than what most states require to pass the drive test. And, most people DO NOT go thru DE. Don't blame Driver Education, blame the regulators who dumb down the tests so as many as possible can get their license.going back 25 years to my memories of DE.. they seemed more interested in teaching us that one glass of beer was equal to a shot, was equal a glass of wine in alcohol and what the traffic infractions were worth in points
Pretty much the same now. What shape is a yield sign and a bunch of irrelevant statistics.
Kenny_McCormic wrote: What shape is a yield sign and a bunch of irrelevant statistics.
Like how if you go 25 mph on the freeway someone will run over you?
In reply to carguy123:
Mainly along the lines of how many millions of young dumbasses who dont understand the effects of ethanol and/or physics kill themselves in cars every year.
My DE instructor just let us do whatever after the first day......enough so that he took a nap. Our entire car of drivers were rural kids, so our parents taught us by about the time we could reach the pedals and see over the dash. That'd probably be neglect now. 
In PA I am pretty familiar with those minimum speeds since I'm a CDL driver.
The "official" rule is that you must use flashers if you are driving 15mph or more below the speed limit unless otherwise marked.
It was rarely "otherwise marked" before the 65 mph speed limit was adopted in PA in the 90s. it was simply always known that you had to use your flashers below 40 on the highway. Now that the 65 mph is in place, they have posted signs that say "use flashers below XX" since 40 is no longer the golden rule.
The tourists around here drive me nuts. They all drive at or below the posted speed limits that not even the truckers pay attention to, there is no room to pass, and they can't be bothered to pull into one of the many turn-offs when they are holding up a conga line of five cars behind them.
It's like they drive around going, "Wow! Trees! Look at all the trees! These are sure some big trees. Wow! More trees. There are trees everywhere. This is incredible. Look at all these trees." And they can't be bothered to look in their rear view mirror and the guy flashing his brights at them or the signs along the side that say, "Slower traffic pull off to allow passing" or "Turn out 1/4 mile" or "Turn out".
berkeleying move over! I am happier to come up behind a horse trailer toddling along because I know they will pull over at the first opportunity. Your dumb ass in your Subaru just passed 4 clearly marked turn-offs. Argh!
Driver Education in this country is a joke. I can't believe anyone here would try to defend it. Since most schools have cut funding for DE, parents are stuck with the task, and it's like the blind leading the blind. When we do our B.R.A.K.E.S. teen driving schools, we also have "parent cars" that we take them out for an abbreviated course to show them what we are teaching the kids. It's pretty shocking how few of them can handle a car any better than someone on a learner's permit.
One of the few gems of wisdom I got from my own folks when learning to drive was dealing with a slow moving hazard we have quite a few of around here:
They told me to treat them as if they were a stationary object, because they very nearly are. It's the problem of people believing that something with wheels traveling the road in front of them is doing a similar speed. Even though they know the buggy is only doing 5mph the brain dismisses it as probably going 35, because everything else in the road is going at least that fast. The same problem occurs with motorcycles; people pull up to a stop sign and look for large objects traveling towards them. The brain isn't trained to look for something as narrow as a m/c, so even though these people will look right at it, they won't "see" it. Drivers simply don't concentrate on the task of driving; they are frequently on auto-pilot.
Beer Baron wrote: The tourists around here drive me nuts. They all drive at or below the posted speed limits that not even the truckers pay attention to, there is no room to pass, and they can't be bothered to pull into one of the many turn-offs when they are holding up a conga line of five cars behind them.
Yesterday going into work, I am on the White Horse Pike into Atlantic City. Also called Route 30. This is a stretch of road I have mentioned before on GRM that I personally refer to as the White Horse Speedway as the speed limit is 50, but most people do around 70. I got stuck behind a car from Illinois doing the exact speed limit of 50. Everytime he got even a fraction of a mph above 50.. he hit his brakes to get him back below 50. It was funny and frustrating all at the same time
I drove across the US at 55 mph in 2001. The Land Rover could go faster, but didn't like to. I think I was passed by every car in the US. Twice. Going over the Colorado passes I was down to about 25, usually driving on the shoulder.
Never had a close call, but also never drove at night. In Nebraska, it's pretty easy to see a slow car up ahead.
While teens are still responsible for a greater number of fatalities than any other age group and make up a smaller portion of the population the deaths by automobile have consistently come down for the past 20 years. Without Driver education this would not be possible. There's a reason the rate of deaths per hundred million miles overall continues to go down is not limited to better cars, greater safety, or better roads. Need I point to the CDC for the numbers.
I will defend DE. It's not perfect. I got into it to change things and make it better. Vermont, Oregon, Washington are leading the way.
The real difficulty comes from dealing with little funding, overzealous legislators, and disinterested parents. Oh yeah, and most kids spend 15.5 years in the back seat watching Mom and Dad make exceptions for themselves exhibiting poor skill, bad habits, and scary behaviors. See Andy Pilgrim's foundation dedicated to improving driver education. And put the phone down while you're at it.
What were we talking about anyway?
GameboyRMH wrote: One time I was trying to pass an SUV in the inside lane going a little below the limit, when I pulled out (remember, driving on the left with RHD cars) I was barely able to pull back in to dodge a RWD Starlet doing about 20kph, he might as well have been parked. If I'd tried to pass just a hair later there would have been an explosion of old school JDM shrapnel as my first sign that something was wrong.
So you didn't have a clear view of what was ahead in that lane before you pulled into it?
vwcorvette wrote: I will defend DE. It's not perfect. I got into it to change things and make it better. Vermont, Oregon, Washington are leading the way.
I'll have to see what those states are doing. I'm only tuned in to what's happening locally, which is about zero. There is practically no behind-the-wheel DE left where I live. Going through the state driver manual is not exactly "driver education", and the parallel parking test you have to pass in this state to get a license is an embarrassment.
Then you have 'experts' like the moron who runs the IIHS saying that driver education doesn't work and we need to just keep making cars safer (heard this from his own lips)...
what I always thought was funny. I went to Private schools.. in public schools, behind the wheel classes were free. In Private, you had to pay for them. Same companies ran them.. so much for the school taxes my parents paid plus my private school education
yamaha wrote: In reply to Ian F: My advice is always "If it is safe to do so, go with the flow of traffic" In Indy on 465 two weeks ago, the left 2 lanes were running 90-95mph.....in a 55.
I would also add that if it is not safe to go with the flow of traffic, it is not safe to be on that road.
yamaha wrote: In reply to Ian F: My advice is always "If it is safe to do so, go with the flow of traffic" In Indy on 465 two weeks ago, the left 2 lanes were running 90-95mph.....in a 55.
The half dozen or so times I've driven through Indy the 465 has always been like that.
vwcorvette wrote: While teens are still responsible for a greater number of fatalities than any other age group and make up a smaller portion of the population the deaths by automobile have consistently come down for the past 20 years. Without Driver education this would not be possible. There's a reason the rate of deaths per hundred million miles overall continues to go down is not limited to better cars, greater safety, or better roads. Need I point to the CDC for the numbers.
I think that has more to do with the cars safety features and kids actually using seat belts. IDK what these states are doing to make you say they are leading the way, but in my area, we don't even have DE anymore......unless your parents drop 2-3k for one of the private ones. It is no longer run by schools here. Not that it wasn't a joke before, 200hrs of classroom and 4hrs of driving wasn't helping anyone.
In reply to ePie:
It is awesome when you need to get to the other side of the city quickly. 
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