Pressure to upsell? Forced? Seriously?

Why do we have to blame management for seeking to make a profit in order to continue to HAVE A JOB for the salespeople?

How about OPPORTUNITY to upsell, or even PRIVILEGE?

Crappy attitudes and lousy salespeople are NOT the same thing as upselling. It's the polar opposite.

Good salespeople sell. Good companies allow good salespeople to sell well, and encourage them to upsell, and reward them for their efforts.

Al the problems of the world are NOT the fault of management or business owners (unless you are OWS). Failure to take charge of the problem employee and reign in their crappy attitude IS the responsibility of good management. If ANY employee of mine (salesperson or otherwise, regardless of pay level) EVER treated a customer like that they would be fast-tracked directly to the unemployment line.

My salespeople love selling, and I do everything I can to encourage them to do so and increase their opportunities to do so.

SVreX, as a sales drone myself I understand 100% what you are saying. Here's where I come from: the absolute best way to run off a customer is to pressure them. That happens when management sets upsell goals. At one company I applied to, you were expected to have a 65% upsell ratio. That means that 6.5 out of 10 customers needed to buy more than they came in for. If your percentage slipped below that two months in a row you were out. Period. That whole upsell thing is why Jiffy Lube bombards you with fuel injection services, air filters, etc etc ad nauseam. I bet you don't like it either.

That leads to the girl/guy selling getting desperate and then to the problems everyone talks about in this thread: pushy (gotta make that nut) dishonest (if I don't sell this not real dirty air filter I am going to quickly be in deep doo doo on my sales report) grouchy (get told no a lot and you know they are right but you can't piss off the customer) then in the last few days an 'I don't really give a E36 M3 any more' attitude.

Ahh.. the upsell...

A keen country lad applied for a salesman's job at a city department store. At the end of his first day on the job his boss fronted up and asked, "How many sales did you make today?" "One," said the young salesman. "Only one," blurted the boss, "Most of my staff make 20 or 30 sales a day. How much was the sale worth?" "100,000 dollars," said the young man. "How did you manage that?" asked the flabbergasted boss. "Well," said the salesman "this man came in and I sold him a small fish hook, then a medium hook and finally a really large hook. Then I sold him a small fishing line, a medium one and a huge big one. I asked him where he was going fishing and he said down the coast. I said he would probably need a boat, so I took him down to the boat department and sold him that twenty foot schooner with the twin engines. Then he said his Volkswagen probably wouldn't be able to pull it, so I took him to the car department and sold him the new Deluxe Cruiser."

The boss took two steps back and asked in astonishment, "You sold all that to a guy who came in for a fish hook?"

"No," answered the salesman "He came in to buy a box of Tampons for his wife and I said to him, 'Your weekend's shot, you may as well go fishing.'"

Zomby woof wrote: I always get stuck in that line too I know stores also track who returns what, and will start to refuse returns to some serial returners

I've been in that line so many times that I learned to embrace the opportunity. The trick is to find the line with the best looking cashier and embrace the wait.

I'm not sure if my wife has caught on to my tricks yet or not...

I see people all the time treat retail people poorly, I don't work in retail but I go to the store everyday to buy food. Many people are pretty rude to retail sales people so I feel for people working in that area. The prevalence of the cell phone has made people even more self-centered and self absorbed. Instead of actually developing relationships with a human being and talking face to face, they poke at the cell phone like a chicken.

I did retail at K Mart for 4 weeks. Never again.

I still work in sales and I love every second of it. Its different dealing with owners, plant managers, purchasing managers. Sure, they have bad days too, but they almost always remain professional. The foundry I work at has the reputation of being the best in our business, so its fun. I would imagine its like working at a very high end dealership or something. Not a lot of tire kickers. If you call me, you want the best and are willing to pay.

In reply to Curmudgeon:

Please note all my references were to GOOD salespeople, GOOD management, and GOOD companies.

Upsells are very easy to accomplish if done respectfully. I have no problem with upsells. I have a problem with azzhatt salespeople (or the companies that create them).

There is nothing wrong with upsells. There is also nothing wrong with a company that encourages them. There is something wrong when they are implemented poorly, which are just as often a product of incompetent sales efforts as it is of corporate policy.

No good owner manager would ever argue with good sales results, upsell ratio or not. Any good salesman who finds themselves working for a bad company who only knows how to measure things by stupid statistics should move on. Quickly.

RealMiniDriver's example is perfect.

Realminidriver. That wasa good joke! LOL!

I was never in retail to know all the ins and outs but from my observations there is humungo-ginormous turnover. AA used to have good knowledged ppl but the last year or so only a cpl veterans are left, they go through clerks like popcorn and only know parts if they look em up on computer. The grocery store retains maybe 40% in my estimate, lotta new faces each n every week. Swear I never seen the same sales ppl twice in RadioShack. Sears, HD and Lowes are like popcorn too. Food service might as well have a revolving door for employees.

I still dunno if these employees don't measure up to company standards (and the standards can't be that great really) or just voluntary quit. I just know I don't wanna do it.

My case with AAP was a nontraining problem with a micromanaging REGIONAL manager that led to only a 4 month stint with the fast food auto parts "giant". Most of the reasons I saw was top down related. Basically, this is "our problem", we aren't going to give you any resources to fix it, but fix it. So, the next step down passes the buck down to the next level down, etc until it's the low rung counter employee and they let you hang in the breeze. They always play the "I can get another person JUST LIKE YOU." card to threaten you into staying employed if you need the job.

I went back and re-read the original post, and snipped this part out.

pete240z wrote: Today I buy tires for the wife's 2wd trailblazer at NTB. Alignment? New battery? Oil change? Fuel winterizing? Fuel injection cleaning? Fuel filter? Lifetime balancing and road hazard? NO!

Granted, we're all car guys here, and we know when our vehicles need attention, but, John Q Public generally lives in oblivion. Were the Tech to NOT ask every customer about common maintainance items (we'll disregard the bunk stuff), everyone here would be griping about the idiot driving down the road dog-tracking, smoking exhaust and bouncing wheels.

SvreX, I don't have a problem with them either, if they are something that is honestly needed and has a true benefit to the customer. I just know that there's a saying: 'you can shear a sheep many times but you can only kill him once'.

The company that I applied to I won't name but it rhymes with Hay Hay Hay. They were VERY up front about their expectations and the consequences to the employee if those mandatory targets were not met (and people think dealerships steal). Needless to say, I do not work for them.

Ranger, AAP (and Autozone, O'Reilley's and all the other chains) spend money on the computer system because it doesn't need benefits etc. That came straight from McDonald's, where they have a keyboard that has pictures of the food so the dirt cheap minimum wage drone at the register can quickly be replaced with minimal training. They are not willing to pay for quality people and are willing to accept rapid turnover, that's cheaper. NAPA will pay more, but not much more. The era of the really sharp counter guy who could hope to feed and clothe a family is long gone. Well, except for dealerships, they generally pay better.

Curmudgeon wrote: The era of the really sharp counter guy who could hope to feed and clothe a family is long gone. Well, except for dealerships, they generally pay better.

1 - I agree.

2 - I made more at AAP then the dealerships, one Ford and one Chrysler, I worked at per hour.

Curmudgeon wrote: Ranger, AAP (and Autozone, O'Reilley's and all the other chains) spend money on the computer system because it doesn't need benefits etc. That came straight from McDonald's, where they have a keyboard that has pictures of the food so the dirt cheap minimum wage drone at the register can quickly be replaced with minimal training.

Anyone else think of the hospital scene from "Idiocracy"?

In reply to Hungary Bill:

Not until you mentioned it.

Ranger50 wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: The era of the really sharp counter guy who could hope to feed and clothe a family is long gone. Well, except for dealerships, they generally pay better.

#1 - I agree. #2 - I made more at AAP then the dealerships, one Ford and one Chrysler, I worked at per hour.

Around here they don't pay squat. Assistant mgr is something like $9.75/hour.

AAP $12/hr for a commerical parts pro. 1st dealer was 6.50/hr plus commission AFTER 20k/month sales. Which even making the minimum only equaled another 1.50/hr. 2nd dealer was a flat $8/hr. Only the manager got commission. Or pocketed "my share".

RealMiniDriver wrote: I went back and re-read the original post, and snipped this part out.

pete240z wrote: Today I buy tires for the wife's 2wd trailblazer at NTB. Alignment? New battery? Oil change? Fuel winterizing? Fuel injection cleaning? Fuel filter? Lifetime balancing and road hazard? NO!

Granted, we're all car guys here, and we know when our vehicles need attention, but, John Q Public generally lives in oblivion. Were the Tech to NOT ask every customer about common maintainance items (we'll disregard the bunk stuff), everyone here would be griping about the idiot driving down the road dog-tracking, smoking exhaust and bouncing wheels.

I looked at my receipt and they wrote not to open hood or check under hood.

The receipt recommended Trans fluid change , coolant change, and fuel injection service. Why? The car has 52,000 miles on it. (the coolant, new tstat and hoses were done 18 months ago)

Realmini driver - you have a great point.

Ranger50 wrote: AAP $12/hr for a commerical parts pro. 1st dealer was 6.50/hr plus commission AFTER 20k/month sales. Which even making the minimum only equaled another 1.50/hr. 2nd dealer was a flat $8/hr. Only the manager got commission. Or pocketed "my share".

Dang. Where are you?

In reply to Curmudgeon:

Where Kentucky, Virginia, and West bygod Virginia meet. Either mine coal for $20+/hr or work everywhere else for minimum wage.

Curmudgeon wrote: I just give them a cell number from, like, 3 phones ago.

I've heard there's a lot of people out there who go with that old Tommy Tutone song and give "867-5309."

In reply to MadScientistMatt:

True, and if you've ever forgotten your loyalty card at a supermarket or something where they let you give your phone # to get the discount, 3/4 of the time putting that one in will work.

SVreX wrote: Pressure to upsell? Forced? Seriously? Why do we have to blame management for seeking to make a profit in order to continue to HAVE A JOB for the salespeople?

OK--just stop it. That's how it works in big box retail. They track your percentages of "member cards" and warrantees sold. If you don't meet it, you get written up or fired. Thus, "forced". This is more of an example of corporate greed than being beneficial to employees. They mark everything down so much that hey need to rely on tack-on warrantees to make any sort of profit. This falls into the hands of people who have no control over who buys a card or a warranty and who doesn't. These companies are now more concerned with peddling those berkeleying warrantees and cards more than they care about someone who has product expertise.

They no longer want to pay for "quality" people, so you're stuck with the bottom of the barrel for workers. If you don't like that, pay a bit more at a place where they care and know what they're talking about.

Please--if you don't like the practices of a big-box retail store, either shop there, save a dollar and STFU when they ask you for a membership card/warranty or just go to a mom and pop place and spend a bit more.

By all means, shop elsewhere when you say you're going to do so. The footsoldier working the floor doesn't give a flying berkeley. You'll be back to save that tiny bit of money--almost guaranteed.

friedgreencorrado wrote: I still think a lot of the problem is that a lot of people don't really *want* to work in retail..but very often, they're the only jobs out there.

this

See--we've heard it all. Smartass, self-righteous customers with "witty" comments are only acting like jackasses. You're being the cheapass who wants to save a buck on your widget. If you don't want to give a zip code, phone number, etc, just don't shop there. Patronize a place that doesn't ask for that stuff.

These companies treat their employees like GARBAGE. There was a point where if you got enough of those cards/warrantees, you'd get an incentive. Now the incentive is "you keep your job". w00t!!!

I worked in retail for a LONG time. Long enough to watch it degrade to the state it's in now. Thus, I avoid big-box stores as much as possible.

In reply to gamby:

Somebody started the new year in a particularly grumpy mood.

I have no doubt you have a great deal of experience in this area. I respect that. I do, however, seriously doubt you've worked for all the box stores, or are in the position to make a claim about "how it works in big box retail" in such a generalized manner.

Every company has different policies. Period.

And attempting to increase profits is certainly NOT an example of corporate greed, it is a matter of business survival. There is no such thing as standing still. You are growing, or you are dying. No other options.

How about this...I'll agree that corporations should not make any effort to maximize sales or profits, if you will agree that it's OK for employees to never get a raise. Yeah, I didn't think so...

I have no problem with a company asking me if I'd like to buy something else (respectfully). I have a big problem with someone who takes a sales job and then complains about selling.

SVreX wrote: In reply to gamby: Somebody started the new year in a particularly grumpy mood. I have no doubt you have a great deal of experience in this area. I respect that. I do, however, seriously doubt you've worked for all the box stores, or are in the position to make a claim about "how it works in big box retail" in such a generalized manner. Every company has different policies. Period. And attempting to increase profits is certainly NOT an example of corporate greed, it is a matter of business survival. There is no such thing as standing still. You are growing, or you are dying. No other options. How about this...I'll agree that corporations should not make any effort to maximize sales or profits, if you will agree that it's OK for employees to never get a raise. Yeah, I didn't think so... I have no problem with a company asking me if I'd like to buy something else (respectfully). I have a big problem with someone who takes a sales job and then complains about selling.

It's true, though. Last place I worked flat out told me no one will get a raise, period. Even though we were in one of the top performing stores.

Im really uneasy with the "you are privileged to be able to sell my stuff" concept. I believe it should be "I provide you with honest work, you provide me with honest compensation. Neither of us can survive without the other"

Joey