Venting: selling junk can stink!

So...This is just a vent...I'll get over it, but it bugs me, nonetheless.

I see an ad in the local Craigslist looking for a miata. Running or not, project, etc. So I think...I'm getting ready to close on a project house, could use the cash, and have the makings for a miata sitting around. That is...a wrecked miata and a good tub that all need painted and reassembled into one miataesque vehicle.

So I email the guy and tell him I've got the wrecked car with softtop and hardtop, good drivetrain and OK interior and a straight tub and front clip to put back together.

He calls, says he's interested, and asks how much.

I state, over the phone, that I'd take $1,500 WITHOUT the hardtop.

He comes to take a look...offers me $750.

I say, No thanks, have a nice day. If you need any help with your miata project, give me a holler.

He calls me back and offers me $1K.

I tell him I'll think about it, but highly doubt I'll be interested in less thank my $1.5K price.

He leaves me a VM asking if I want to counter offer and let him know by monday.

I email on monday and tell him that I can do a little lower than my original asking price. I also clarify that the deal DOES NOT include the Hardtop.

This is where it get's interesting. The guy emails telling me that the deal DID include the hardtop, that I shouldn't lie to people with money, and that real estate agents (I'm a real estate agent, among other things) shouldn't partake in bad business.

I email back and tell him I'm sorry for the misunderstanding and that I tried to be clear about my intentions at the point I mentioned the price. I tell him my integrity does not depend on the financial stature of the other party. I appologize profusely and tell him what my price with the hardtop would be and my justification...hardtops are a commodity at $1K plus-or-minus and they're not easy to come by in our area. I also take a moment to tell him it REALLY isn't a worthwhile activity to go after folks WITHOUT money ;).

He fires back an offensive email asking which local broker my RE license is held with and that he has no tolerance for dishonest statements from RE Agents, and that his memory is not faulty, has nothing to do with money, and on and on. Then to top it off he says something to the effect of...if you will try to remember what you originally offered, maybe we can settle this fairly?

Whiskey...Tango...

Foxtrot?

You try to be a nice guy...and this is what you get. This guy is acting like we had some sort of contract on real estate and I'm trying to commit fraud. Sheesh! We had a misunderstanding, I clarified as soon as I sensed there might be a misunderstanding...and the guy starts harassing me.

I was thinking about posting the whole exchange...but think it would probably be best not to do that yet. This guy, though he doesn't seem to be on here, seems like the type who would take it to a lawyer...(not that I'm afraid he has a case)

Sheesh!

Clem

And don't any of you on here think you can come buy my junk now...My moment of desperation has passed.

Lesson learned: Don't mention you're a RE agent again.

I agree... selling stuff sucks... I have a pile of crap I've been meaning to put on Ebay... except my memory of past Ebay transactions are still fresh... Everything is all about protecting the buyer and screwing the seller... I'm not sure I want to even bother... although I could use the money...

Clem, I'd just say it's obvious this deal isn't going to work, and go on about my way. Screw it. There's one in every crowd, right?

That's pretty much where I'm at.

I've got a lengthy draft of a response email to him making a few points and tell him that I don't wish to deal with him, in any manner, ever again.

My better judgement tells me to do nothing, don't even send the email and let it go with no more input. I probably will send it though... :( ;)

Clem

I wouldn't. No reason to fuel this fire, just walk away. If he pursues it, just say it's obvious the deal isn't going to work and you consider the matter closed. You're not under any obligation to explain yourself or refute him.

Further, you're under no obligation to sell him the car anyway. Send him something like this:

"I'm sorry but I have a policy of not selling cars to people who make me uncomfortable by bringing my integrity into question. Since you have already demonstrated that you belong to this group, and since this group is not one that is offered any definition or protection under the laws of this state, I am under no obligation to continue talks with you on the matter.

Obviously you think lowly of my character, and you have no respect for my integrity, and as a result there is no protection for me after the sale from you suing me based on any perceived misrepresentation of the goods in question. By demonstrating that you are willing to both defame my character and insult my person over a misunderstanding on your part of terms I clearly outlined in the initial discussion you have proven to not be someone with whom I would like to conduct business."

Tell him that the car is no longer for sale.

Thanks all,

Like I said, My better judgement tells me not to respond even though the urge to "defend" my integrity is pretty strong. So I'll wait, for now.

OOG, your first paragraph (of proposed response) pretty much has the exact points I made to him (in the email I haven't sent yet). I said (would say) "I will not deal with people who go out of their way to undermine my integrity."

I like your point in the last paragraph...about being worried about him coming back on me when he found out the junk I sold him was junk. I'll use that If need be...thanks!

Clem

Oh...and I do feel a bit insulted that he offered me $750 for what he thought was enough parts to assemble a miata AND a hardtop!

Our conversation must have lead him to believe I had more than a passing interest in miatas.

If I was just a schmoe who came across a wrecked miata an wanted to resell...sure, lowball me. But to think a guy like me would entertain his offer on this package WITH a hardtop shows that he clearly doesn't think that highly of me.

But it's all moot...

Clem

Looks like he's trying to pull one over on you. Figures that if he bullies you enough, he'll get what he wants at a bargain price. Berkley him!

Oh yeah...This guy is probably ultra right wing (judging by the way he throws around his "retired, 100% disabled military" status like some sort of social rank). To subject him to Berkeley (CA) would be poetic justice!

(Yes...I know berkeley is a code word ;)...just getting way geeky there).

Clem

I had a similar bad experience selling a running and moving TR-7.

1. Guy offers me $400 for my TR-7 and I think about it a couple days and call back to let him know I'll let him have it, but the brand new battery I bought the previous week was not included.

2. I pull the car out of the front yard, take down the for sale sign and remove the battery.

3. He comes back with an old man who was aparantly his father (even though he was like 35 years old) to write the check. I accepted the personal check since it wasn't too much money and gave them the title they said they would come back and get the car. They didn't even look at the car, or go over near it.

4. A week goes by with no contact from them.

5. I get a call from my brother while away from the house that someone showed up and was going nuts because there was no battery in the car. I told my brother to tell them to calm down and I'd be there in ten minutes.

6. I show up to learn that they had left, but not until they had screamed obscenities at my fourteen year old brother.

7. I give them a call and get screamed at by the old man on the phone about wasting their time, being a piece of E36 M3, etc. He went on a speal about me not having a right to touch the car after I sold it. I tried to calmly tell him I did not and it was sitting in the same spot completely untouched by any human since before they came and bought it. He threatened to sue me. I was boiling with rage by this time, so it is a probably a good thing he rudely hung up before I could start responding.

8. I cool down and call him back and a sweet old lady answers who sounds like she is quite embarraseed and she eventually gets him back on the phone. I calmly explain that I was very sorry there was a misunderstanding and I would help them get the car on the trailer if they come back that night. I agree to put the battery back in long enough to drive the car onto their trailer. They show up, I start the car, it is put on trailer. They act polite this time around. They act apologetic and ask to borrow the battery so they can easily get the car off the trailer etc. They drive through my town weekly so they'll drop it back off within a few days.

9. The berkeleying thieves never return my battery.

This was almost ten years ago and I'm still pretty angry about the whole thing. I have mostly avoided selling a used car since. I will not deal with anyone who I remotely suspect of being an shiny happy person or an idiot.

Edit: the only reason I sold a running Triumph, that wasn't even rusty, for that kind of money was because my parents were leaning hard on me to get my cars out of their yard. Just thought I would elaborate, this community would value the car above $400 I think...

Yeah,

This one episode certainly won't deter me from wheeling a dealing a bit.

And the thing is, this guy seemed straight and legit...up until he went wacko on me.

Can't judje a book by it's cover. I'm mostly just upset about the guy calling my integrity into question. I've got no issues with security on that front, so I should just let it go. But it's the principal of the matter That steams me. This guy is calling me a lowlife when I'm quite the opposite, as anyone who knows me will attest.

Sometimes you CAN be too polite and honest, unfortunately.

Clem

ClemSparks wrote: And the thing is, this guy seemed straight and legit...up until he went wacko on me. Can't judje a book by it's cover. I'm mostly just upset about the guy calling my integrity into question.

Yeah, my long winded story is basically the same. I'm mostly mad about the verbal abuse my brother and I were subjected to. I would have probably gotten over the theft of a battery long ago if that is all there was to it.

The wierd thing is, the younger guy who was "buying" the car was fine, it was just his old man that got invovlved to write a check and then went nuts. The guy who originally looked at the car and who got his name on the title never said anything.

I'm going to have to second the plan to ignore him completely. You have nothing to gain by attempting to prove your integrity to a wacko that you never want to deal with again.

Just set up an e-mail filter to automatically delete anything that comes from his address.

Some people just assume they should be treated like kings and if they aren't, than you're trying to swindle them. I hate that attitude. There's a great quote - I think from Larry Niven - that goes something like this:

"In any group of five people, there will be one a--hole. If you don't know who it is, it's probably you. If everyone's an a--hole, it's definitely you."

Unfortunately there's no way to get through to these people that that line applies to them...

J

thankfully I never sell my cars. I tend to drive them until they are rotted out or killed in an accident.. then I buy another and use the parts from the first to keep it going.

Personally, I agree with all above. Save the letter, but don't send it.

though I have to wonder what would happen if you told him your RE license was with a DIFFERENT brokerage. Got any friends who can pull of being a real estate broker to find out of he calls them?

not worth your time.. I'm learning this tactic as I get older and busier. It's not worth my time to deal with idiots.

WilD wrote: 9. The berkeleying thieves never return my battery.

Was there no address on that personal check?

Gimp wrote:

WilD wrote: 9. The berkeleying thieves never return my battery.

Was there no address on that personal check?

Oh, I had an address. I didn't mention it above but I did think about going on a mission to retrieve may battery. However, given the attitude of the people involved and my propensity for rage, it could have turned ugly. I consider it a successful exercise in self restraint not to track them down. The cost of the new battery wasn't worth the potential trouble, so I just added that to the cost of the learning experience.

ignorant wrote: not worth your time.. I'm learning this tactic as I get older and busier. It's not worth my time to deal with idiots.

Ain't that the truth.

A long time ago I had a 510 2 door I bought cheap because it needed an exhaust system to pass the (then) Sc state inspection. I fixed the exhaust and a couple of other odds and ends, found that the stock L16 and automatic was grossly underpowered so I put a For Sale sign on it. (Yeah, I know, I should have kept the damn thing.)

There's a knock on my door a day or so later, there's a fortyish guy and a twelvish year old kid. Guy sticks his thumb back over his shoulder: 'That your car?'

Yep. (The thought in my head: Naw, it's the neighbor's and I'll take half what's on the windshield if you buy it from me instead. )

'Give ya $600 for it.' (I was asking $675.00).

Mmm, make it $625.

'Okay.' (He hasn't heard it run or driven it.)

He turns to walk away. Hey, where's the money?

'I'll be back in a couple of weeks to get the car.'

Um, if you want me to keep it for you, I need a deposit.

'I'll be back in a couple of weeks.'

Okay, but if someone else shows up with cash, it's getting sold.

Two days later, I sold it for $650.00.

About a week and a half later, knock at the door. It's Mr. $625. 'Hey, where's the car?'

I sold it.

'I told you I was going to be back with the money.'

I told you if you didn't leave a deposit I would sell to the first person who brought me cash. You chose not to leave a deposit.

His voice rises. 'That's a E36 M3ty way to do business.'

Sorry you feel that way.

'Who bought the car?'

I'm not going to tell you that. The car is sold, and I would appreciate it if you would leave

At this point, he's getting louder and louder. As luck would have it, my GF's city cop sister was there and happened to be in uniform complete with popgun. She stepped up behnd me, hand on the gun butt. He saw her, his eyes got wide and he took off running. I didn't know she was behind me, so at first I could not figure out why he hauled ass like that.

thankfully I never sell my cars. I tend to drive them until they are rotted out or killed in an accident.. then I buy another and use the parts from the first to keep it going>>>>>>>>> I am actually selling cars but the funnest thing is to run off shinanningin runnin a wholes that wont let there wives have any cash or visa versa. remember any publicity is good publicity .

So the prospective buyer emailed me a few days after this exchange to appologize for his remarks. He said they were true...but uncalled for.

I'm biting my tounge. Not repsonding...

Thanks for the support! ;)

Clem

ClemSparks wrote: So the prospective buyer emailed me a few days after this exchange to appologize for his remarks. He said they were true...but uncalled for.

"I'm sorry I called you an shiny happy person. It's true that you are. But it was wrong of me to tell you what an shiny happy person you are. I apologize. Please forget that you're an shiny happy person."

I just sold my old RX7 to my wife's uncle. Dealing with selling a $500 car with loads of small problems via craigslist, or even here, wasn't high on my list of fun things to do- the experiences listed here are exactly what I would have expected to hear from the long line of dreaming tire kickers trying to get something for nothing.