What happened to work ethic? Major Rant.

The wall of text:

As some of you might remember, my rental house had a roof leak the first of the year. I climbed up and looked at it, there was a low spot in the middle of the roof. That's not good. I called a good friend of mine to look at it. He's been in residential construction for 25 years. His first comment was "Oh crap."

This isn't an old roof, it's a little over two years old. I wasn't expecting to have to worry about it for a long time.

I told my friend to patch it up until he could free up the time to fix it. He stays extremely busy so it took him a while to get to it. He started on it Monday. What started out as a couple of sheets of plywood and new roofing, has turned into a major project. The previous contractor had replaced a piece of sheeting with 3/8 OSB rather than matching the existing 3/4. That left a ridge in the middle of the roof. He also left two rotten rafters under the new sheeting which allowed it to sag even more. This section of roof as very little pitch so naturally it started to leak.

At this point I'm into this repair to the tune of about $4000 because some jack leg ass hole couldn't do the job right to start with. 8 sheets of 3/4 plywood, replacement of two rafters and repairs to two others, sheet rock repairs, and new roofing, not to mention the labor.

What really pisses me off, I told the initial contractor that I knew there was rot in the roof. He said three sheets of sheeting would cover it. I also told him if he got into it and the damage was worse, to call me. We could adjust the price to cover any additional repairs. I would much rather spend another $1000 to fix it right than to have to fix it later. I wanted it fixed right. Even with the opportunity to make more money off the job, he did half ass work rather than doing the job right. I just don't understand that mentality. If you can't be bothered to do the job right, why do it at all.

I seem to be running into this issue more and more. Half ass people doing half ass work. It's really pissing me off.

The only good news. The original contractor is out of business. I hope he's berkeleying miserable and sleeping under a bridge somewhere.

The TLDR version:

Contractor does crappy work. What should have been a 30 year roof lasts 2.5 years. I'm spending $$$$ to make repairs that should have been repaired 2.5 years ago. I would have much rather spent that money the first time around. Why won't people do quality work even when you offer to pay extra for it?

Roofers...in general, are interested in peeling the old shingles off, and installing new ones. They do not care what is underneath, because the ownership pockets $500 per hour to slap shingles, and they can't make that much money doing carpentry work.

Plus most of them are too stupid to do it right anyway.

I have dealt with several, and there are far more bad than good.

dealing with this with a neighbor. Two years ago he hired some firm to put up fencing around his property. To say they did a E36 M3ty job would be a compliment. He and I stuck ourselves into doing it right this morning. Managed to rip out 10 sections of rotted fencing before it got too hot. Tomarrow I put new sections in propertly.. with a level

How does that make sense to anyone. Not much chance of repeat business doing work like that.

well.. the fencing job was done during the worst of the economic implosion.. so I assume he got a great price from somebody who really didn't know what they were doing and just needed the money

These people aren't capable of doing quality work - hell, the probably couldn't recognize quality work. But when there's an abundance of work, and they can get their cash and move on to the next job, they'll keep at it as long as they can - until their reputation catches up to them.

I doubt these guys are out of work, they've likely just moved on down the road to try and find new suckers.

They all wind up in Florida. Seriously, it seems that a LOT of bad contractors move here right before they get ridden out of town on a rail.

I'd imagine Florida is a contractor dream. Lots of retired wealthy folks who are snow birds and not in rush, contractors don't have to rush before season ends, and cheaper work is favored because it might get blown away in the next hurricane.

My mom and her boyfriend hired a "contractor" to put new windows on her house. (contract is signed)

As part of it the guy places the order for the windows, mom/bf pay for the order.

They arrive, and prove to be the wrong size (guy measured wrong / ordered wrong)

Guy says he needs additional money to "make the windows fit"

Mom/bf reel and get someone else to look at it, windows won't fit without major changes to walls.

Guy dissappears, no contact.

Mom /bf take him to court as they have a few grand worth of worthless windows.

Turns out they guy was not a registered contractor.

Things continue, but the result of court is a settlement that the guy has to pay us back for the windows he ordered wrong (+ court costs)

Lesson I take away : Caveat Emptor with contractors of any kind.

For more info, watch Holmes on homes...

PHeller wrote: I'd imagine Florida is a contractor dream. Lots of retired wealthy folks who are snow birds and not in rush, contractors don't have to rush before season ends, and cheaper work is favored because it might get blown away in the next hurricane.

and OMG I'm gonna die heat and humidity in the summer?

In reply to Apexcarver:

Yup. That's why I stay up here.

I understand Toyman's rant entirely. It's getting harder and harder to find anyone who cares about their work anymore and it's not just in the general contractor field.

Doesn't anyone ask for references anymore? I hate to hire anyone for anything but if I have to - I make damn sure that atleast two other happy customers think they are fantastic before I give them any money. I also ask to see their insurance. Fly-by-nighters are everywhere.

Just to continue the rant...

I swear more than half the contractors out there are alcoholics who wanted a job that they could berkeley off early from every day. They work just enough to pay for a nice truck and drinks. Every working class bar will have a parking lot full of trucks by 3PM. To be the contracting business every one wants.... it's a pretty easy play book. Answer the berkeleying phone. Show up for a berkeleying estimate and actually provide one in a timely fashion. If you get hired, show up to do the job on time. Every day. Do not scream obscenities to each other in every conversation when there are potential customers all around you. In fact, do try to be invisible at a job site as much as is possible. The people working in cubes don't want to hear how you will stab that motherberkeleyer from the bar if he looks at you wrong again any more than the people sitting on their porch next door to my house do. Do provide status on your progress. Every day/week. Do make progress. Every day. Do not ask for more money in the middle of the job with some bullE36 M3 excuse - that means you berkeleyed up the estimate or more likely just mis-managed another job and need money for their supplies. Do not leave your level around if you don't want me to use it to check your work. Do quality work. Always. Do clean up before you leave. That's it.

I know exactly one company that does every bit of that list. I can't afford to hire him, he wouldn't have time for me this year anyway. I only ever see him at the track. His race car is sublime.

I'm on my condo board this year and so I have been dealing with this kind of crap too. It seems like the only people I can get to call back on a job at all are interested in half-assing it, which means I just have to call them back and tell them we're not paying until they apply the full ass.

I've recently been dealing with this as well. We hired a company to remove squirrel nests from under our house. We started hearing animal noises under there, and turns out there were 8 or so nests. So, company with decent reputation shows up and in a week all are gone. We paid extra to have hole sealed and to clean under the house.

I had a lot of work done under there and it's wrapped, etc. Decently nice for a crawl space. Anyway, long story short I get under there the other day and it's a mess. They left the wrapping for everything they did, and only partially cleaned the mess. So guy says I should have read the contract that says they do not clean up. At that point, I say what about the one I paid you an extra $150 to clean up? He basically said I should have read that first before I agreed to pay more.

Not sure what my next step is, but boy what an asshat way of doing business. Unfortunately, I've been getting more of this than actual quality work the last few years, and it's one of the reasons I sold my rental property.

racerdave600 wrote: Not sure what my next step is, but boy what an asshat way of doing business.

Be nice. Hire him again. When he goes under for the estimate... toss in the bees nest and slam the door.

Place a warning sticker on the door. "Beware of bees".

We went through the same thing having our bathroom remodeled. Nightmare.

However, the guy we had install our new front door, security door, and replace our French doors with a Pella sliding glass door? He showed up exactly when he said he would, finished more quickly than his original estimate and cleaned up after he left.

If I knew how to do this kind of work, I'd start a business tomorrow. I'd make a killing by showing up at 7am working til 5pm and getting things done.

z31maniac wrote: If I knew how to do this kind of work, I'd start a business tomorrow. I'd make a killing by showing up at 7am working til 5pm and getting things done.

You'd think so but my observation is that most people just hire the cheapest guy with a fancy truck then complain about him. If you're not him, you have a long road ahead convincing everyone that you're worth it.

This is why I tend to do my own work. If it's going to be half assed anyway, I'd rather I was the one who half assed it, for free.

On a serious note, I did hire a contractor to build the shell of my addition. Well regarded with great references. He and his team did stellar work, and pretty rapidly with no additional charges, ever. Cost more up front than most bidders, but well worth the money (and he's usually booked up for years in advance). So, there are good ones out there.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: To be the contracting business every one wants.... it's a pretty easy play book. Answer the berkeleying phone. Show up for a berkeleying estimate and actually provide one in a timely fashion. If you get hired, show up to do the job on time. Every day. Do not scream obscenities to each other in every conversation when there are potential customers all around you. In fact, do try to be invisible at a job site as much as is possible.. ..Do provide status on your progress. Every day/week. Do make progress. Every day. Do not ask for more money in the middle of the job with some bullE36 M3 excuse ... Do quality work. Always. Do clean up before you leave. That's it.

My wife sells roof-top solar electric systems for an electrical contractor that operates as you describe. They have so much referral business from customers, roofers and general contractors they have worked with, that she and the other 5 people on her team work 12 hour days and weekends to keep up. Unlike some of the competitors, the company spends very little on advertising.

This is why I DIY whenever reasonable. Research it, rent (or buy) the proper tools and approach it as a learning experience. When you're finished, take pride in your work.

I tend to to most of my own work as well, but I really don't like roofing. Particularly this time of year. I also just plain don't have time to spend a week ripping a 15X25 foot section of roof off a house and putting it back. Unfortunately this section of the house has no attic access to make repairs so everything has to happen from the top. That meant stripping the shingles, stripping the sheeting, repairing or replacing the rafters, replacing most of the sheeting, replacing most of the insulation and all the roofing. I also decided to forgo the shingles this time around and put a Sealoflex membrane roof ($$$$) on this part of the house. The pitch on this part of the roof is only a 2/12. It's borderline too flat for shingles and I definitely don't want to ever have to fix it again.

The guy who did the work the first time was recommended by a friend of my wife. That's a whole different story. Needless to say she's not too happy either. She would have much rather spend the money on something else...like the vacation that might not happen now.

I guess what really burns my butt is, I don't mind spending the money to fix something right. This repair is costing about $1000 more than I had planned, but if that's what it takes to fix it properly, then that's fine. Fix it. The friend that's doing the repairs now isn't the cheapest around by a long shot, but if he says it's fixed right, it is. His crew isn't staffed by mindless idiots so a lot of the costs are labor. I wish I could have waited for him to fix it the first time, but he stay's booked for 8-12 months in advance.

I blame the lack of aprenticeships as being a viable career path.

Pretty much all kids are given any more as options out of high school are go to college or go flip burgers. So they end up in some kind of trade job with no training whatsoever.

I know those were my options when I graduated in 2003, I didn't like either of those at the time so I ended up in the military, but I can't imagine things have changed much since then.

We tried to hire a local "well known" pest control company last week. The sales guy came to the house and was quite professional. We signed up and they told us the service guy would be at our house to perform the first pest treatment on Thursday between 3 and 5 pm. Excellent.

Thursday rolls around and no service guy shows. My wife had canceled a meeting to stay home. She waits until 6 pm to call the sales guy and ask where the hell the service guy was. Phone call gets bounced to a national call center because the local office closes at 5 pm. My wife informs the call center that we are cancelling our service and to tear up the contract, we are done. They note our account and close the account after apologizing.

Phone rings at 6:30. It is the sales guy calling on behalf of the service guy, who is apparently running late. My wife informs him that he knew he was running late at 4:30 and should have called, and to not bother coming to the house. We get home from dinner to find the service guy's business card on our door. Check voice mail and the guy had called at 7:15 pm saying he was on the way over to spray! Um, no.

So now we have to find another pest control company. We already fired the biggest name in the business because they would show up unannounced, spray the outside of the house, skip the inside (duh, we aren't home), then charge us for the full indoor/outdoor treatment.

TL:DR - Service guy is no show for first appointment, we fire the company.

This is where I thank deity that my FIL is a general contractor, the whole family does concrete, her cousin is a damn good sparky, etc. I will never have to worry.

well.. so far I am half way done redoing my neighbors fence. All 80 feet ripped out and 40 put back in with new posts and in some case, post holes. I am probably going to have to redo all of his fencing as I am making the rest of it look -really- bad