What's the appropriate response?

Thank you all (well, with one or two exceptions), for your help and support. Honestly it amazing me that some folks are ok with a little boy touching their daughter in a private area and then showing a continued pattern of abuse and predatory behavior towards more than one student. But then again, I bet this little boys parents feel this is ok too
We meet with the folks in a few hours. I am not going to demand expulsion. I was going to demand he be moved to another class, now. But with 4 weeks left I don't know if this will happen. At this point I dont know what I will accept. But if it doesn't go well, after I leave the school I'll be heading to the police office.
Again, thanks all and I'll update you later on.

I hope everything works out for you and your daughter. I don't have kids and I can't imagine what you must feel, but I hope it works out.

MG_Bryan wrote: I don't see how age justifies sexually assaulting someone. I don't see how it can be called minor.

Because at 7, they don't know it's sexual assault. They just know it's wrong. Just like what Hitemp did. Was he sexually assaulting that girl in his mind? It would certainly be considered a sexual assault.

I didn't say it was OK, I merely suggested that it was not cause to overreact. I don't know how you could read into it otherwise.

Nope, ZW, you're wrong on that. If he knew to go there, he knew it was more than just teasing or bullying.

When I was 7 I went swimming at a female friend's house. We happened to change together in the pool house, alone. We checked each other out; it was mutual and innocent. End of story and no harm no foul.

That is absolutely not the same as holding a girl down and groping her, at any age. It is NOT "boys will be boys". It is a situation that demands resolution.

That resolution should be engineered by the school and if they will not come up with a constructive plan that prevents this from happening again (hopefully by addressing the underlying problems), then it is time for something punitive that will prevent it from happening again by isolating the aggressor. If the school does not address the issue head on, then there is every reason to involve the authorities.

Good luck, DB, and please let us know.

Zomby woof wrote:

MG_Bryan wrote: I don't see how age justifies sexually assaulting someone. I don't see how it can be called minor.

Because at 7, they don't know it's sexual assault. They just know it's wrong. Just like what Hitemp did. Was he sexually assaulting that girl in his mind? I didn't say it was OK, I merely suggested that it was not cause to overreact.

Nothing is cause to overreact, or else they wouldn't call it overreacting. But this is cause to REACT, and that's what I'm doing. The boy may not have known it was "sexual assault" but let's examine this a bit. What is one of the first signs observed in most serial killers? Killing animals for the entertainment value. Do you think a young John Wayne Gacey knew he was showing the early traits of a serial killer? No. Do you think he knew it was wrong, I'd suspect he did or he would have done it at the kitchen table with mom and uncle Joe there. Do you suppose adults were made aware of it when be ran over the neighbors cat with a lawnmower? Yeah, but they didn't react appropriately. I'm not saying this dude is the next serial rapist or killer, but I'm not going to let my girl be the litmus test either.
And was this boy assaulting my daughter in his mind? I doubt it very much. Was Charles Manson doing anything wrong in his mind???

You asked for advice, and you got it. I meant mine in the best possible way, and did not mean to make light of your situation. Having been through something very similar, my guess is, someday you'll look back on this a lot differently than you do today. Kids go through, and do these kinds of things, and they usually go away, and are forgotten as quickly as they happen.

Doc, sounds like you're doing the correct thing. Whatever happens to/with this boy, you're clearly communicating to your daughter that what happened to her is NOT ok, and that speaking out about it (a.k.a. "not being nice about it") IS ok.

Amazingly, as you've seen, in this day and age there are still some people who believe that little girls should be taught to "play nice" at all costs. Then again, there are apparently still some people who believe that big girls are unable of handling a situation rationally. I dunno what horrifies me more, that someone here suggested leaving your wife at home "because women are more likely to become emotional" or that this remark passed without comment.

Good luck with your situation. The methods and players will change, but your daughter will come up against it again. The most important thing you can do is give her the tools to fight it, including the knowledge that she, not someone else, determines what is and is not ok with her body.

Margie

It seems like that if your daughter approached the teachers it should have been dealt with. I know my girlfriend (who just graduated with a teaching degree) was told what to do in situations like this and was told to tell the students that if something like that happened to come talk to the teacher.

DrBoost wrote: We meet with the folks in a few hours. I am not going to demand expulsion. I was going to demand he be moved to another class, now. But with 4 weeks left I don't know if this will happen. At this point I dont know what I will accept. But if it doesn't go well, after I leave the school I'll be heading to the police office. Again, thanks all and I'll update you later on.

Have you talked to your daughter to see what she would like to see happen and what she would be comfortable with? She should have input on this, as she is the one that was bullied and assaulted. I would do a lot of talking over the next several weeks, reminding her what touches are ok, and what are not; No one can touch her anywhere without her permission, and that she can always tell you if someone makes her feel uncomfortable.

Marjorie Suddard wrote: I dunno what horrifies me more, that someone here suggested leaving your wife at home "because women are more likely to become emotional" or that this remark passed without comment.

If I responded to every post where a guy said something this blatantly and foolishly sexist, I'd be The Ultimate Uberdork. :D

Good luck, from someone who was bullied as a little girl and is behind you 100%.

dollraves wrote:

Marjorie Suddard wrote: I dunno what horrifies me more, that someone here suggested leaving your wife at home "because women are more likely to become emotional" or that this remark passed without comment.

If I responded to every post where a guy said something this blatantly and foolishly sexist, I'd be The Ultimate Uberdork. :D

I know, I know... but in this particular context I just couldn't let it pass without comment.

Oh, and Lesley, your comment makes me want to go back in time and be your grade-school bff. We'd set some stuff right.

Margie

Marjorie Suddard wrote: Doc, sounds like you're doing the correct thing. Whatever happens to/with this boy, you're clearly communicating to your daughter that what happened to her is NOT ok, and that speaking out about it (a.k.a. "not being nice about it") IS ok.

EXACTLY! Pretending it isn't important to avoid unpleasantness will only plant a seed in a little girl's head that it's better to go along with inappropriate behavior than it is to speak out. The boy is the problem here.

I read the comment and decided not to validate it with a response. Sometimes I just don't feel it's worth the trouble, ya know?

Yep.

Y'all done pissed off the Ladies. I feel a new patio coming on.

Doc, hope everything works out for you today.

Apologies gals, that was uncalled for.

Plus, someone smart said that you're not supposed to disagree with folks who buy ink by the barrel.

Let's do it Margie, there's no statute of limitations on bully-douchebaggery revenge.

Yes, this boy likely learned bullying tactics at home. But, it just occured to me, there's definitely something he HASN'T learned on the playground: Girls are icky and have cooties and physical contact should be avoided at all costs.

Granted, as they get older, they become less icky.

I'm in if you want some extra help!

Apology accepted, tuna. I didn't call you out by name because I didn't think you were trying to be unkind... a lot of prejudices run so deep as to be unconscious. As Doc Boost is finding out, though, once you're a father of a daughter (or the spouse of one, for that matter), you often get some hard introductions into what it means to be female in our society, and at that point you can either be a do-bee, or a don't-bee (yeah, I'm aging myself there).

Ok, I'm off the soapbox. I think this is a good group of guys overall... actually, I was telling Tim this morning that I thought you were a great bunch of big brothers for Tommy. Usually.

Margie

Marjorie Suddard wrote: Apology accepted, tuna. I didn't call you out by name because I didn't think you were trying to be unkind... a lot of prejudices run so deep as to be unconscious. As Doc Boost is finding out, though, once you're a father of a daughter (or the spouse of one, for that matter), you often get some hard introductions into what it means to be female in our society, and at that point you can either be a do-bee, or a don't-bee (yeah, I'm aging myself there). Ok, I'm off the soapbox. I think this is a good group of guys overall... actually, I was telling Tim this morning that I thought you were a great bunch of big brothers for Tommy. Usually. Margie

I do have kids, but all boys. The newest to be delivered on the 23rd (her uterus had two chances). My wife and my dog are my only estrogen sources for the household, and we're done having kids (I think).

I am thankful that I have two boys. I do not envy those parents with the responsibility of raising daughters in this world. A lot has changed, some things have changed for the worse, and some things haven't changed.

I'm not sure it's possible to "over-react" in this case. If I were in Doc's shoes, I would be enraged. I would hope to keep my calm in any discussion with the other parents or the school, but I'm not sure I could. I would demand that they act in accordance with their "Rules for Conduct"--i.e. expel the offending child. I also believe there is a strong case for more than one victim here, and social services should be notified. I certainly hope that this situation is satisfactorily resolved.

EastCoastMojo wrote: I read the comment and decided not to validate it with a response. Sometimes I just don't feel it's worth the trouble, ya know?

Exactly my train of thought. If my wife and I were in docs shoes, it would absolutely be me, that was emotional and pissed (officer "why did you beat up they eight year old?") not my wife.

Joey

aussiesmg wrote:

Zomby woof wrote:

aussiesmg wrote: How is reporting a crime using a cop as a pawn, I was a cop for 16 years and a Detective for 8 and in my limited experience that was my job. Cops don't care, (or shouldn't care) what the schools opinion is, if it is a crime and the parents wish to proceed with charges they will do their job.

Maybe there's a reason why you're no longer a cop.

Now you are making statements about my credibility and integrity because I don't agree with you, this is a very stupid thing to do. You know NOTHING about me, you have crossed the line making such an accusation. The stupid thing is you are saying I'm no longer a cop because I was diligent. By the way, what do you base your profound knowledge of the law upon?

Contact has been made with me by ZW and an apology was forthcoming and accepted, so in fairness i wish to advise this is over with.