FWIW France and Iran are both having resurgences right now. They both started opening back up in the last month or so.
FWIW France and Iran are both having resurgences right now. They both started opening back up in the last month or so.
here is the concern
one guy went to the Seoul Korea nightclub area and now over 100 people have tested positive.......Ok yes we have no idea how many were positive BEFORE this guy showed up , but probably not 100.
Stay safe
californiamilleghia said:here is the concern
one guy went to the Seoul Korea nightclub area and now over 100 people have tested positive.......Ok yes we have no idea how many were positive BEFORE this guy showed up , but probably not 100.
Stay safe
Yup. If you see some equine manure, you don't go looking for a zebra when the horse is right in front of you. Sure, there may be some Zebras out there... But unless you're in rural Africa, it doesn't make sense to go looking for one.
Totally unrealted to anything but.. Seol has 2100 nightlclubs? That seems like a bunch.. maybe. I don't know.
aircooled said:So yes, the actual impact to most is minor or non-existent. One of the prime reason it's so hard to get some to follow simple, considerate precautions.
Well said.
californiamilleghia said:one guy went to the Seoul Korea nightclub area and now over 100 people have tested positive.......Ok yes we have no idea how many were positive BEFORE this guy showed up , but probably not 100.
Since it is Korea, you can be confident they have a pretty good idea. They are doing a LOT of tracking there (which is a lot easier there for a variety of reasons)
OK, here is another one that will drive Bobzilla nuts:
The CDC is now saying (despite what you may have heard previously) the virus does NOT spread easily on surfaces:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html
The virus does not spread easily in other ways
COVID-19 is a new disease and we are still learning about how it spreads. It may be possible for COVID-19 to spread in other ways, but these are not thought to be the main ways the virus spreads.
- From touching surfaces or objects. It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes. This is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads, but we are still learning more about this virus.
In reply to aircooled :
I don't really have a source that i remember, but I really thought I had read that a while ago. There was an interview I either heard or watched - and for the life of me I can't remember who it was - and the person being interviewed who was presented as having some sort of scientific chops basically said that if it makes you feel good to wipe down your groceries when you come home or leave your amazon packages sit in the corner for a week, fine, but it wasn't likely to be doing you any good.
In reply to aircooled :
Not nuts. Just makes them less trustworthy. Doesn't mean I think they suck or are wrong or whatever. Just makes their advice a little less..... believable.
this is what happens when you let alphabet agencies play on the jump to conclusions mat.
nocones said:Totally unrealted to anything but.. Seol has 2100 nightlclubs? That seems like a bunch.. maybe. I don't know.
A population of almost 10M (9.7) and active us military bases. I'd believe it. LA has 1700 and only 4M in population
edit: nyc claims 25,000
In reply to bobzilla :
This is what frustrates me about society as a whole. Admitting that a previously held position has been found wrong and changing your position means you lose credibility. Flip-flopping because its politically expedient is not the same thing as scientists studying a virus and learning new things about it.
The disclaimers I kept hearing at the beginning of this were, "Well, this is what viruses typically do...but..." and then plenty of talk about further study being needed.
In reply to Tactical Penguin :
It's not that they changed positions as much as it's been "do not question our authority. We know what we are talking about" attitude behind it. I don't do "no questions" well.
aircooled said:californiamilleghia said:one guy went to the Seoul Korea nightclub area and now over 100 people have tested positive.......Ok yes we have no idea how many were positive BEFORE this guy showed up , but probably not 100.
Since it is Korea, you can be confident they have a pretty good idea. They are doing a LOT of tracking there (which is a lot easier there for a variety of reasons)
Perhaps a bit easier, but they were gay nightclubs, and there is a lot of stigma attached to that in South Korea.
Sounds like a lot of people were using fake identities and it has not been easy to track them.
In reply to bobzilla :
I haven't really gotten that attitude from the CDC, but plenty of attitude from people who have NO idea what they're talking about.
In reply to Tactical Penguin :
Perhaps not as much directly, but the CDC has been used to reinforce just about every stupid idea that comes down the pike, as if claiming the CDC says it adds a level of authority.
Ive heard hundreds of statements that include things like "Do it in accordance with CDC requirements" for things that the CDC was NOT recommending (and they have no authority to "require".
Businesses, newscasters, average people, political leaders... it's a constant drone of inaccurate information pretending to have some sort of authority.
"recommendation"... "Requirements" ... same thing to TV news writers...
In defense of the CDC and all of the other scientists working on this, I'll say this:
As if they're not faced with a big enough challenge, they're also getting pressure to produce specific answers, even if not supported by the data.
I don't envy them, and I'm grateful for their efforts.
Also in fairness to the CDC, they are dealing with a lot of unknowns and are forced into some pretty big "best guesses".
It's hard to win in such a situation (much like the government). If you do too little, you will be made the villain. If you do too much, you will be made the villain. If you do it perfectly, no one will know for quite a while... you will be made the villain until then.
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Tactical Penguin :
Perhaps not as much directly, but the CDC has been used to reinforce just about every stupid idea that comes down the pike, as if claiming the CDC says it adds a level of authority.
Ive heard hundreds of statements that include things like "Do it in accordance with CDC requirements" for things that the CDC was NOT recommending (and they have no authority to "require".
Businesses, newscasters, average people, political leaders... it's a constant drone of inaccurate information pretending to have some sort of authority.
This. And heaven forbid you question it. Holy hell.
bobzilla said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Tactical Penguin :
Perhaps not as much directly, but the CDC has been used to reinforce just about every stupid idea that comes down the pike, as if claiming the CDC says it adds a level of authority.
Ive heard hundreds of statements that include things like "Do it in accordance with CDC requirements" for things that the CDC was NOT recommending (and they have no authority to "require".
Businesses, newscasters, average people, political leaders... it's a constant drone of inaccurate information pretending to have some sort of authority.
This. And heaven forbid you question it. Holy hell.
I think I stated this 100 pages back.
My biggest issue is there is never a reasoned response. No, hey guys we need to keep an eye on this. No calm discussion. The media and government always starts out screaming THE WORLD IS GOING TO DIE!!!!
Anyone with a lick of common sense knows they are full of E36 M3 and exaggerating the danger of the situation for ratings and air time. The rest of the world panics and we run out of toilet paper, milk and bread.
Then, when nothing happens the media and government pat themselves on the back and congratulate themselves on a job well done, even though they are the ones who created the panic to start with.
We don't have a news cycle anymore. We have a bullE36 M3 cycle. I'm just sad that so many people fall for it.
bobzilla said:In reply to Tactical Penguin :
It's not that they changed positions as much as it's been "do not question our authority. We know what we are talking about" attitude behind it. I don't do "no questions" well.
I think you're inferring that on your own, or from whatever news source you are relying during this time.
This is a new strain of virus which there was no available data on, so some uncertainty is to be expected from the beginning and moving forward. Even more so when statistics and modeling comes into making large policy decisions. I think there is a clear problem of how we deal with uncertainty in today's media climate. With how fast paced reporting is, there is a need to have a clear definitive answer for everything with no room for uncertainty. There isn't any incentive for a news organization to wait for all the facts in most cases.
Fortunately it looks like some news outlets are learning to preface claims with a warning that these findings may change as we learn more about the virus and more data becomes available.
This is an older article but still applies, mixed messaging from the WHO and media has not helped how we are all coping with this., and there isn't a simple fix to correct the problem. This isn't going to change overnight either, especially when more comes out about new treatments and vaccine developments. We need to get used to dealing with uncertainty in reporting of this pandemic.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/uncertainty-in-a-time-of-coronavirus/
Toyman01 (Forum Supporter) said:bobzilla said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Tactical Penguin :
Perhaps not as much directly, but the CDC has been used to reinforce just about every stupid idea that comes down the pike, as if claiming the CDC says it adds a level of authority.
Ive heard hundreds of statements that include things like "Do it in accordance with CDC requirements" for things that the CDC was NOT recommending (and they have no authority to "require".
Businesses, newscasters, average people, political leaders... it's a constant drone of inaccurate information pretending to have some sort of authority.
This. And heaven forbid you question it. Holy hell.
I think I stated this 100 pages back.
My biggest issue is there is never a reasoned response. No, hey guys we need to keep an eye on this. No calm discussion. The media and government always starts out screaming THE WORLD IS GOING TO DIE!!!!
Anyone with a lick of common sense knows they are full of E36 M3 and exaggerating the danger of the situation for ratings and air time. The rest of the world panics and we run out of toilet paper, milk and bread.
Then, when nothing happens the media and government pat themselves on the back and congratulate themselves on a job well done, even though they are the ones who created the panic to start with.
We don't have a news cycle anymore. We have a bullE36 M3 cycle. I'm just sad that so many people fall for it.
Of course. Generating panic keeps eyeballs on news programs and websites, generating ad revenue - which is the ONLY thing that matters to news organizations.
We also had this discussion some 100 pages ago - modern news has nothing to do with informing the public anymore.
Sad about it? Maybe... but I've come to expect it, such is my lack of faith in humanity as a whole and Americans in particular.
Sit back and watch the poo-show...
In reply to engiekev :
A lot less "first with the late breaking news" and a lot more "verifying sources, data and information" is what we need. We aren't going to get it because that doesn't drive revenue or clicks or views.
The media is, at this point, becoming less of the issue than the people watching it. When people start burning churches to stop people from congregating, school board members threatening to shoot people that get within 6' etc.... that's dangerous and stupid. There's no tolerance left in our society. Trying to not flounder here, but this "us vs them" E36 M3 has to stop. The world has lots of grey and colors in it, not black and white.
As I've always believed, you do you, I do me. We leave each other alone. Don't threaten me, don't tell me how I'm going to live my life and I'm going to let you live yours.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:- modern news has nothing to do with informing the public anymore.Sad about it? Maybe... but I've come to expect it, such is my lack of faith in humanity as a whole and Americans in particular.
Sit back and watch the poo-show...
It's not a new, or even recent thing
I quit the news media almost 40 years ago now for that very reason.
bobzilla said:In reply to engiekev :
A lot less "first with the late breaking news" and a lot more "verifying sources, data and information" is what we need. We aren't going to get it because that doesn't drive revenue or clicks or views.
The media is, at this point, becoming less of the issue than the people watching it. When people start burning churches to stop people from congregating, school board members threatening to shoot people that get within 6' etc.... that's dangerous and stupid. There's no tolerance left in our society. Trying to not flounder here, but this "us vs them" E36 M3 has to stop. The world has lots of grey and colors in it, not black and white.
As I've always believed, you do you, I do me. We leave each other alone. Don't threaten me, don't tell me how I'm going to live my life and I'm going to let you live yours.
I doubt we share the same political views but I agree with everything you said. At least online (and sometimes in real life) this virus has shown a greater "virus" within our culture. The general lack of empathy whether it is towards protesters who may have lost their jobs or businesses or towards people who are scared rightly or wrongly about going back out with the virus around. The attacks and threats on people like the ones mentioned above or attacks on people who have asked people to put on masks, etc.
The media lying or whipping up panic is nothing new. Octavian ran fake news pieces against Mark Antony in the first century BC. Ben Franklin did in Revolutionary War times. There was the yellow journalism of the late 1800s. However the internet seems to have magnified this and made it so much worse.
This topic is locked. No further posts are being accepted.
