Who hit my fence?

Has anyone out there had to deal with UPS with regard to property damage before? I have over the past couple days and it was one of the slimiest interactions I have ever been in the middle of. I had a delivery late Friday, and Saturday morning, I noticed that something substantial must have hit our white PVC fence between 3:30 PM Friday and 8am Saturday, the end post was knocked over a foot or so, and there were some brackets and panels broken further up the fence. Still standing, but enough damage to require a couple posts and panels to be replaced/reset, and a bunch of brackets replaced. My first thought when I noticed this was that the only truck I knew had been in our yard during that time was UPS. So I called up their 1800 number and explained that I think their truck may have hit something.

Yesterday they sent out their "investigator" who basically spent the entire time claiming that their driver could never hit anything in a driveway like ours, telling stories about people who've made claims he deemed to be fraudulent, explaining that they take damage claims "seriously" and drivers can be fired over them, basically making me feel like as big a jerk as he possibly can while still pretending to be friendly. Then he called over the driver. I had no idea they were going to do this, and it made me INCREDIBLY uncomfortable. Apparently he did not know why he was being called back here either, and he got very defensive (which I understand), but I don't see why I had to be put on the spot and presented as his accuser. He pulled the truck up to the fence, and there were several scrapes on the back end that could easily have lined up with the ones on the fence if the loading were different (which it certainly was) but the "investigator" told me that it didn't look like anything lined up, and the driver insisted that the scrapes were already there. I wasn't sure what to do, because I didn't really want to press things right in front of the driver. I am not a monster, I don't want to get him fired, at most I wanted a hundred bucks or so to buy the parts to fix out fence.

Today they sent out another rep to tell me that they didn't believe their driver was at fault and they wouldn't be doing anything. She said this was based on the fact that he turned around without hitting anything on Monday, which seems quite irrelevant to me. (I should use this at autocrosses. If I make it through a run without hitting any cones, my previous cone penalties should be stricken based on this new proof that I don't hit cones). She said that there was no evidence, I asked how you could say that definitively given all the scrapes on the truck, and she said that they deliver to commercial locations often, and the trucks get scraped up routinely. Maybe true, but can't that be used as an excuse pretty much whenever they feel like it? What was the point of even "investigating"? I Told her that I also thought it was unfair and unprofessional to stage the situation with the driver the previous day, and was surprised and disappointed that there was no impartial party (insurance, for example) that dealt with me, only UPS employees that made me feel like a jerk, and continually reminded me that I could be responsible for serious penalties against the driver (not my intention obviously, but I feel like it was very manipulative of them to even mention that to me, their internal business has NO bearing on anything I did or anything that happened to the fence).

Basically the whole experience left me thoroughly unconvinced of the company/driver's innocence, probably cost them many times more than just having their insurance give me a few bucks for the fence, and made me feel very icky about UPS as a company and the way they treat their customers. I can tell you I won't be using them again for a long time, and I actually used to like them, they seemed like a great company when I worked for them as a christmas helper back when I was in college. I guess I better get used to busted up packages left in the garden and unexpected shipping delays as long as I continue to live here .

Yep. Good news is, they'll fire drivers for stuff like that. Bad news is, they'll fire drivers for stuff like that. I've been through it (on your end.) No, it's not fun. I don't know if it's company policy to have a "surprise!" driver visit, but yeah, that seems slimy and weird.

And in my experience, their claims people are even worse when it comes to damaged packages. Regardless of how much insurance you pay for, their attitude (again, IN MY EXPERIENCE,) is simply "You didn't pack it right. Go get bent...right after you jump through these 500 hoops, and we send an "investigator" out at our convenience."

That being said, I really really like our UPS driver here at the shop. He's careful, considerate, funny, and goes the extra mile to make sure we get our stuff. Our FEDEX driver, however, might as well be an angry gorilla on steroids. I've seen him THROW E36 M3 out of his truck onto the street on more than one occasion.

Was there any brown paint on your fence?

My friend had the exact same experience you did. Reading your post was like hearing his story all over again.

We used to have a driver at the office that would drive over printers and stuff if we asked him too.

Our mailman hates us, because we send out so much mail.

The scrape on the fencepost was surprisingly light given the damage done, and it's sort of black/brownish, but not glaringly obvious UPS brown. The point of my post was not, however, that I am certain the UPS guy nailed the fence (it seems logical, but I didn't see it happen), but that I was surprised at the slimy treatment of the situation by the company. Their behavior after the fact made me a LOT more upset than anything that happened to the stupid fence.

When I was a third party casualty adjuster I worked a case for a delivery company (that will remain anonymous). Basically a guy on a farm in Northwest Virginia had the top of his entry way knocked down between his fence posts. This was not a huge problem except for the fact that he had some elk and moose antlers up there that he had shot on big game hunting trips in Canada.

How do you value something like that? I still have no clue since I could not find much info or a anyone selling antlers of this size. We ended up settling on $4k ish if I remember correctly. He started out asking for 15k after the company initially denied responsibility.

Do any of your neighbors have surveillance cameras? My in-laws caught some neighborhood kids vandalizing property across the street with their cameras.Worth checking out anyway, just to prove a point.

I'm pretty sure I've posted on here before about being shafted by UPS. I payed a UPS Store to pack the box, the stuff got destroyed, and UPS's "claims adjuster" claimed it was improperly packed. Because the UPS Store is not the same as UPS, I was boned.

Trust me, I don't care that much about the fence. The only reason I even called UPS about it is that the guy who owns the unit next door is about 3 years behind on condo maintenance payments (there are only 2 units). So anything that needs to be fixed around here ends up coming out of our pockets.

I figured a four-paragraph detailed post like yours implied that you cared.

If you wanted to really push this start by having a lawyer draft a letter. Large companies are targets and will always deny responsibility when given the chance, a letter from a lawyer will at least let them know that you will not be "weeded" out as somebody who who is looking for a opportunity. If the company still won't settle or take you more seriously, then file a small claims suit. At that time have your lawyer request all maintenance files including DVIR's for the driver and his unit. By law every commercial driver has to do a daily inspection and fill out a Daily Vehicle Inspection Report, any damage will have to be reported on this form. This will allow you to see if the damage was prior or not and if it was reported. If the truck has damage and it isn't on the report, that is a big no-no. All these documents have to be kept for a minimum of 1 year so they have them. Also set up an appointment to photograph the truck (you also photographed your fence too right?, and any tire marks?). A proper police report is also a necessity, do one ASAP. Managers who have to supervise drivers don't like cops sniffing around. Finally if any of the steps don't have them ringing your phone, proceed with above evidence to small claims and get your cash that way. In small claims the burden of proof is less so the judge has more lee-way to form their own opinion based on probability. If you documented everything and have photo's, time frame driver was in the area, Police report, correspondence with UPS, and every else mentioned, the case should be a slam dunk.

Can you tell I've been on the "other" side as you? My ex employer was notorious for denying claims. Since most large companies are self insured (up to a certain amount) there is no insurance company to work with and they often have the final say, or at least like to think so....

I care about companies treating customers like crap. Fences, meh. ;)

Getting something posted on The Consumerist would be immensely more satisfying to me than getting lawyered up.

I really don't think you have a leg to stand on. Unfortunately, you can't prove it was the UPS guy, but he can't prove it wasn' him, so it's a wash, and you're stuck with the bill. It will cost less to fix the fence than to hassle with a big company.

I used to live out in the country at the end of a long (like 3/4 mile long) straight road which bent sharply after passing my house.

Late one afternoon a UPS truck comes tootling up the road, fails to brake in time, swerves desperately, goes up on 2 wheels, hangs in there for a few seconds, then crashes over on its side and slides to a stop in the middle of the road. I was out mowing the lawn at this time and watched most of this happen.

I helped the driver out and we made sure nothing was going to blow up, then he (obviously with dread) used our phone to call in to his supervisor (pre-cell days). From that moment on, it was like calling the Area 51 people.

What looked like an unmarked cop car arrived in about 30 minutes, carrying the supervisor. He must have busted ass getting there, because we lived way out in the sticks. About 15 minutes later an unmarked tow truck shows up. The whole time the supervisor is snapping pics and talking to the driver. The tow truck guy and his assistant right the UPS truck and get it on the hook while the supervisor talks to me (mind you, the UPS truck never really touched my property) and grills me about what happened.

As soon as the UPS truck is on the hook, the supervisor gets a rattle can of UPS Brown out of his trunk and proceeds to paint out every logo, word, serial number, etc. on the van. He takes the license plates off and puts them inside the truck while the crew sweep up all evidence of the crash. Then the tow truck disappears into the evening, followed by the supervisor with the driver riding shotgun. During the whole talk, the supervisor never offered me his card or gave me any contact information.

An hour after the event it was like it never happened. It was kind of weird.

Tommy Suddard wrote: Our mailman hates us, because we send out so much mail.

And we wonder why the post office is in such trouble?

Duke wrote: I used to live out in the country at the end of a long (like 3/4 mile long) straight road which bent sharply after passing my house. Late one afternoon a UPS truck comes tootling up the road, fails to brake in time, swerves desperately, goes up on 2 wheels, hangs in there for a few seconds, then crashes over on its side and slides to a stop in the middle of the road. I was out mowing the lawn at this time and watched most of this happen. I helped the driver out and we made sure nothing was going to blow up, then he (obviously with dread) used our phone to call in to his supervisor (pre-cell days). From that moment on, it was like calling the Area 51 people. What looked like an unmarked cop car arrived in about 30 minutes, carrying the supervisor. He must have busted ass getting there, because we lived way out in the sticks. About 15 minutes later an unmarked tow truck shows up. The whole time the supervisor is snapping pics and talking to the driver. The tow truck guy and his assistant right the UPS truck and get it on the hook while the supervisor talks to me (mind you, the UPS truck never really touched my property) and grills me about what happened. As soon as the UPS truck is on the hook, the supervisor gets a rattle can of UPS Brown out of his trunk and proceeds to paint out every logo, word, serial number, etc. on the van. He takes the license plates off and puts them inside the truck while the crew sweep up all evidence of the crash. Then the tow truck disappears into the evening, followed by the supervisor with the driver riding shotgun. During the whole talk, the supervisor never offered me his card or gave me any contact information. An hour after the event it was like it never happened. It was kind of weird.

Sounds like MIB. Did they have a flashy thingy? Never mind, you wouldn't remember anyway.

Men In Brown.

Though, actually, the supervisor and the tow truck crew were dressed pretty anonymously...

That's kind of creepy Duke. I don't think you should be posting that on teh interwebs.

Duke, add me into the "WTF, WEIRD story" group.

P71 wrote: Because the UPS Store is not the same as UPS, I was boned.

that would make me really mad.........my UPS Store guy is really nice, just don't ask for anything, because he will charge you......

Put some nails on the driveway the next time they will be coming by, 4 tires is worth about the same as fixing the fence.

Bhahahaha...ship a bunch of stuff via UPS to a series of locations in close proximity to each other to in effect, create a course and then pepper the course with all sorts of obsticles with the objective of seeing how Berkleyed up you make the truck. You know, have stuff that's spring loaded to swing out and bust up the headlights.

Duke, You didnt call the cops? Even a single vehicle accident warrants a ticket in these parts. You gyped your municipality out of the ticket revenue.

Oh thats right. Tickets are about punishing unsafe actions, not generating revenue.

great now duke is going to disappear.

I drove a truck for years.. my only accident (that was my fault) was taking the mirror off of a ford taurus in Elizabeth NJ trying to get out of a parking lot. I stopped right there, found the owner and he worked it all out with my boss over my cell phone..

The other two accidents were people hitting me