Why don't race teams try harder?

I am a huge proponent of racing as a means of improving technology and whatnot, but why don't they try harder to work as a means of advertising.

Face it, for the most part, racing is touted as a "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" venture. It seems to me that race teams are not trying as hard as they could be to hawk their sponsor's product, or to sell themselves as race teams in the first place.

For the purposes of this excersize, I will use the example of the imaginary Flyson Racing from upstate New York . This particular team (hypothetically, of course) runs a car in the LMP1.5 class of the North American LMS (Imaginary race class and series as well)...

Their car is powered by a 2.0 liter turbocharged Grazda engine, sat in the middle of a Mola B09/86 chassis. In the LMP1.5 class, they are forced to run a restrictor on the turbo air.

Now, in my mind, and the mind of the public, speed equates to quality, especially in racing. What is the public so worried about right now? Nurburgring track lap records. One would imagine that the same concept of "track records" would hold just as much clout on any number of amazing tracks here in North America.

Flyson could optimize their car for setting track records by doing a bit of the following; remove the restrictor on their engine and open up the power to the tune of a hundred or so more, or, even better, work with Grazda to build an insane 4 - rotor screamer for the car, possibly even with a couple turbos, build a bit of aero kit that would optimize the car for each track, but may be slightly outside the rules of their governing body, and fit the car with wider wheels and tires (again, outside of the restrictive rules of the class in NALMS).

Once optimized, hit every track with an attainable track record goal, and smash it. (perhaps even some of the courses that the NALMS already goes to, because with better power and aero, they could even eclipse the fast times set in qualifying).

They might even have a chance to show up at this little event called Ultimate Track Car Challenge (this one is real, yo!) and blow the overall win out of the water.

This is just one example (I have a million), but for a team (and a company) that is 100% dedicated to racing and does not get any of it's money anywhere else, it seems that Flyson don't do much other than race.

Get out there, strap a GoPro HD (or work with Go Pro on gaining some press for it's new Go Pro 3D) on the car, set some quick times, have some fun, pop it on youtube and make sure it hits EVERY blog on the internet.

This is a great way to gain fans, as well as some great PR. Fans and press are how you gain sponsors. Sponsors give you money. Money (unless you are Toyota F1) makes you faster. Faster means more wins. More wins means more fans and press.

Its just a cycle. You have to know where to jump in!

I agree, and given resources, they probably would too, but doing all of that takes dollars^5. I am not sure enough people care about non-racing to do it.

I read the thread title and immediately assumed you were talking about cheating

calteg wrote: I read the thread title and immediately assumed you were talking about cheating

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see people winning in an unscrupulous manner, but some "creative engineering" never hurt anyone.

I once read about the Penske Trans Am team using a gravity fed fuel rig with a 55 gallon drum of fuel up on a 30 foot scaffold. The fuel delivery hose ran through a second 55 gallon drum in which they installed dry ice and coiled the hose up. Not only did they deliver the fuel much faster, but because it was chilled, they were able to cram an additional half gallon or so in the tank.

The unfair advantage...

tuna55 wrote: I agree, and given resources, they probably would too, but doing all of that takes dollars^5. I am not sure enough people care about non-racing to do it.

Yeah, it takes money to accomplish these tasks, but "it takes money to make money".

For example. I guarantee that the shipping, air travel, film crews, renting a track, building a car, and having platinum teeth really hurt the budget for the production of Ken Block's Gymkhana 3, but Ford, Monster, DC and others made out like BANDITS with the exposure that it provided. (hell, I still occasionally go to hoonigan.com to see what the hell it is, but it still says "coming soon".) In that case, there was a "gone viral" additive to it, but a ton of people watched it, and if you make it exciting enough, a ton of people could watch the videos that I am talking about making.

Jesus, Bradley... We have to tell each other when we are using the same brain.

John Brown wrote: Jesus, Bradley... We have to tell each other when we are using the same brain.

I'm not sure even I can comprehend the dark inner workings of your noggin.

I didn't think they were "Dark inner workings" , but more like a thick nougaty center.

Wally, now you are thinking of me. I am the one with a Thick Nougaty Noggin.

Anyway, there is a Redline TimeAttack this weekend, as well as a Pikes Peak international Hill Climb. Either one would be a great opportunity for furthering your PR experience.

where can i haz a Grazda engine??

I'm looking for a Gallo 40?

I would go for the Gallo 44!

oh did i stumble on THE WORST street racing movie of all time last night. its called "Street Racer" (imagine that), from 2008. Prepare yourself for a good laugh

Is it worse than "The Last Race?"

Dont think ive seen that one yet...

This is what you are missing with the one i saw last night:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A03-THaPJcI

Money. Return on investment, How'ya going to break every track record without at least once writing off part of the car? Spares, support people, distribution rights, target audience to sell to perspective audience, ...incentive for bloggers to run this (more money?)...

Relevance of track times set with this Uber-mobile for promoters, backers, advertisers, etc, when there's nothing to compare it to they could use...Might get a mention here and there, then it's dead and useless to all the above.

The closed course speed record used to be a big deal, but it sorta faded from the spotlight. Porsche held it for a long time with their 917-30 at Taladega. It was 2 years out of racing when they dusted it off and took it out (driver Mark Donahue died a week later). It didn't make a big splash then, and when it was broken again in the late '80's I believe (AJ Foyt?) they tried to make a big deal about that, and it sort of fell flat.

I truly think that doesn't mean much to people now, especially when you can go buy a street car that can do almost 200mph for not all that much money (if you consider $80k or so not that much). The average guy or girl doesn't care, and those that due usually want to know what it will do around the 'ring.

R&T and probably others have done a fair amount of top speed shootouts in the past, and I think using street cars is far more interesting than using race cars. They did do a comparison between a Porsche 962 prototype and a Hendricks stock car in the late '80's, where the stock car convincingly won. It wasn't a LeMans set up, and i think it might have done better, but I think the difference was almost 30mph.

triumph5 wrote: ...incentive for bloggers to run this (more money?)...

Blogs don't get paid to place content. That's Payola, and it was deemed illegal with radio stations back in the 40s... Besides being immoral.

And there's nothing illegal and immoral on the internet!

Blogs that post juicy content and pull in more viewers make more money.

Keith wrote: And there's nothing illegal and immoral on the internet! Blogs that post juicy content and pull in more viewers make more money.

Ed Zachary. If the story is flashy and exciting, it will get press. That's why people post it.

Well...let's see.

Maroon92 wrote: I am a huge proponent of racing as a means of improving technology and whatnot, but why don't they try harder to work as a means of advertising. Face it, for the most part, racing is touted as a "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" venture. It seems to me that race teams are not trying as hard as they could be to hawk their sponsor's product, or to sell themselves as race teams in the first place.

Win on Sunday, sell on Monday doesn't hold true anymore in my opinion. Not to the level it did back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, anyway. Factories can't build racecars anymore. They build federally mandated pillows with wheels that aren't capable of competition, in many respects.

For the purposes of this excersize, I will use the example of the imaginary Flyson Racing from upstate New York . This particular team (hypothetically, of course) runs a car in the LMP1.5 class of the North American LMS (Imaginary race class and series as well)... Their car is powered by a 2.0 liter turbocharged Grazda engine, sat in the middle of a Mola B09/86 chassis. In the LMP1.5 class, they are forced to run a restrictor on the turbo air. Now, in my mind, and the mind of the public, speed equates to quality, especially in racing. What is the public so worried about right now? Nurburgring track lap records. One would imagine that the same concept of "track records" would hold just as much clout on any number of amazing tracks here in North America. Flyson could optimize their car for setting track records by doing a bit of the following; remove the restrictor on their engine and open up the power to the tune of a hundred or so more, or, even better, work with Grazda to build an insane 4 - rotor screamer for the car, possibly even with a couple turbos, build a bit of aero kit that would optimize the car for each track, but may be slightly outside the rules of their governing body, and fit the car with wider wheels and tires (again, outside of the restrictive rules of the class in NALMS). Once optimized, hit every track with an attainable track record goal, and smash it. (perhaps even some of the courses that the NALMS already goes to, because with better power and aero, they could even eclipse the fast times set in qualifying). They might even have a chance to show up at this little event called Ultimate Track Car Challenge (this one is real, yo!) and blow the overall win out of the water.

TLDR...

This is just one example (I have a million), but for a team (and a company) that is 100% dedicated to racing and does not get any of it's money anywhere else, it seems that Flyson don't do much other than race.

[edit]...Wait, I don't get it. you say they are 100% dedicated to racing and then complain that they don't do anything else. That's the definition of "100%" AND "dedicated." [/edit]

It's been mentioned before, but nobody has resources to do anything other than race. Maybe in the highest levels of racing this could be done...but that would be with factory support...something that is pretty much nonexistent in, again, all but the highest levels of racing

Get out there, strap a GoPro HD (or work with Go Pro on gaining some press for it's new Go Pro 3D) on the car, set some quick times, have some fun, pop it on youtube and make sure it hits EVERY blog on the internet. This is a great way to gain fans, as well as some great PR. Fans and press are how you gain sponsors. Sponsors give you money. Money (unless you are Toyota F1) makes you faster. Faster means more wins. More wins means more fans and press. Its just a cycle. You have to know where to jump in!

It's pretty rare that "Race Teams" get fans and press. Drivers do...sponsors do...but the name of the race team isn't nearly as high-profile. And that seems strange since the team makes it happen, but they're not in the PR game...they're in the "racing" game.

When it comes down to it, it's really hard to spend a lot of money (it all comes down to money) to advertise for someone elses product. Why would I advertise for brand x when I have to PURCHASE brand x's products, bust my ass and my budget to do well with the product...only to spend MORE money helping brand x sell more products (and therefore make more money) without any chance of compensation?

There are my thoughts on the subject. This comes from my first hand experience working in racing. I don't have a huge exposure to it, but have spent a portion of my life making a living as a professional race team member.

Clem

In reply to ClemSparks:

That's the point, they aren't making money from the manufacturers, so they have to make their money elsewhere. Flyson, for example, is sponsored by AP Oil. AP oil wants to see their logo on peoples TV and Computer screens, so when Flyson's youtube video has well over 1,000,000 hits (going viral), they can justify asking AP Oil for more money!

In the instance I provided, Flyson DOES Have factory support...FROM Grazda. Grazda builds them engines, and helps supply them with data and engineers through the season to gain a competitive advantage.

Why would Monster Energy, Ford, Castrol, and DC spend all of that money producing Ken Block's video if they didn't think they would see some kind of return from it. Hype, PR, and Exposure are what this game is about. Not even one of the major US teams uses any kind of New Media to help promote their sponsoring brands. (Facebook isn't new media anymore).

Think of it this way, when Travis Pastrana was driving for Subaru and Red Bull, he was always doing crazy off the wall stuff to promote Red Bull.

Like climb Mt. Washington...really fast...for no reason...

And jump his rallycar onto a barge on New Years Eve...

Red Bull put on these stunts at HUGE expense, but 1.4 million people have watched the Mt. Washington video, and an astonishing 8 million people have viewed his New Years jump. That amount of exposure, were it purchased in TV ads, would cost Millions of dollars, and we wouldn't be talking about it more than a year later (or even remember it, likely), but on New Years Eve, with a captive audience, Red Bull's logo was on Travis' car for several minutes.

Obviously the race teams don't foot the whole bill for these events, that's why they have sponsors.

if they want to set themselves apart from the field (in ways other than winning races), they need to try harder.

If you don't get it, that's fine, you just don't get it. As someone who graduated with a degree in marketing and advertising, I think some of what I say holds water.

Here is another way to think about it. As Herman J. Mankiewicz once wrote "Millions are to be grabbed out here, and your only competition is idiots." Granted, he was discussing mid 20's Hollywood, but the same ideas carry through.

ClemSparks wrote: Well...let's see.

Maroon92 wrote: I am a huge proponent of racing as a means of improving technology and whatnot, but why don't they try harder to work as a means of advertising. Face it, for the most part, racing is touted as a "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" venture. It seems to me that race teams are not trying as hard as they could be to hawk their sponsor's product, or to sell themselves as race teams in the first place.

Win on Sunday, sell on Monday doesn't hold true anymore in my opinion. Not to the level it did back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, anyway. Factories can't build racecars anymore. They build federally mandated pillows with wheels that aren't capable of competition, in many respects. - Bitter much? There are plenty of good cars that transfer to the racetrack these days. Look at what Corvette racing is doing for Chevrolet as a great example.

For the purposes of this excersize, I will use the example of the imaginary Flyson Racing from upstate New York . This particular team (hypothetically, of course) runs a car in the LMP1.5 class of the North American LMS (Imaginary race class and series as well)... Their car is powered by a 2.0 liter turbocharged Grazda engine, sat in the middle of a Mola B09/86 chassis. In the LMP1.5 class, they are forced to run a restrictor on the turbo air. Now, in my mind, and the mind of the public, speed equates to quality, especially in racing. What is the public so worried about right now? Nurburgring track lap records. One would imagine that the same concept of "track records" would hold just as much clout on any number of amazing tracks here in North America. Flyson could optimize their car for setting track records by doing a bit of the following; remove the restrictor on their engine and open up the power to the tune of a hundred or so more, or, even better, work with Grazda to build an insane 4 - rotor screamer for the car, possibly even with a couple turbos, build a bit of aero kit that would optimize the car for each track, but may be slightly outside the rules of their governing body, and fit the car with wider wheels and tires (again, outside of the restrictive rules of the class in NALMS). Once optimized, hit every track with an attainable track record goal, and smash it. (perhaps even some of the courses that the NALMS already goes to, because with better power and aero, they could even eclipse the fast times set in qualifying). They might even have a chance to show up at this little event called Ultimate Track Car Challenge (this one is real, yo!) and blow the overall win out of the water.

TLDR... -Now you are just being thick. If you didn't read that, then how can you argue against anything I have said, that is the core of the post!

This is just one example (I have a million), but for a team (and a company) that is 100% dedicated to racing and does not get any of it's money anywhere else, it seems that Flyson don't do much other than race.

[edit]...Wait, I don't get it. you say they are 100% dedicated to racing and then complain that they don't do anything else. That's the definition of "100%" AND "dedicated." [/edit] It's been mentioned before, but nobody has resources to do anything other than race. Maybe in the highest levels of racing this could be done...but that would be with factory support...something that is pretty much nonexistent in, again, all but the highest levels of racing -If they didn't have resources to promote their racing, then they don't have the resources to race. It's a fact of life that advertising and sponsorship pays for the sport these days, and if you don't keep your sponsors happy, you don't have a race team. The team, doesn't do anything but race. Technically, doing a time attack is still racing, and it would not be hard to set this kind of stunt up.

Get out there, strap a GoPro HD (or work with Go Pro on gaining some press for it's new Go Pro 3D) on the car, set some quick times, have some fun, pop it on youtube and make sure it hits EVERY blog on the internet. This is a great way to gain fans, as well as some great PR. Fans and press are how you gain sponsors. Sponsors give you money. Money (unless you are Toyota F1) makes you faster. Faster means more wins. More wins means more fans and press. Its just a cycle. You have to know where to jump in!

It's pretty rare that "Race Teams" get fans and press. Drivers do...sponsors do...but the name of the race team isn't nearly as high-profile. And that seems strange since the team makes it happen, but they're not in the PR game...they're in the "racing" game. -Oh really? You are pretty jaded. High level international racing IS a PR game. Wins equal headlines. I recall having read that a famous NASCAR gentleman was once quoted as saying "Boy, if you ain't gonna win, you had better damn well crash spectacularly". Sponsors love headlines, tv time, and exposure! When it comes down to it, it's really hard to spend a lot of money (it all comes down to money) to advertise for someone elses product. Why would I advertise for brand x when I have to PURCHASE brand x's products, bust my ass and my budget to do well with the product...only to spend MORE money helping brand x sell more products (and therefore make more money) without any chance of compensation? There are my thoughts on the subject. This comes from my first hand experience working in racing. I don't have a huge exposure to it, but have spent a portion of my life making a living as a professional race team member. Clem

And Red Bull is pulling out of the most popular form of racing in the USA. Clem Sparks point proven.

racerdave600 wrote: The closed course speed record used to be a big deal, but it sorta faded from the spotlight. Porsche held it for a long time with their 917-30 at Taladega. It was 2 years out of racing when they dusted it off and took it out (driver Mark Donahue died a week later).

This is actually the thing that got me going on this idea. It has been stewing in my head since I passed Talladega on my way to Barber to see the Grand Am cars race there a few months back. Donohue is one of my favorite drivers in history, and that event sparked so much thought over the last few months.

I am aware that top speed doesn't really astonish anyone anymore (unless it were really spectacular, but that would be dangerous). That is why I would suggest they attempt to set track records at smaller road courses such as Barber, Roebling Road, Waterford Hills, and maybe some sort of roval.