In reply to Capt Slow: Nonsense! Hess's wife isn't a redhead, mine is.
Pluss The good doctor has all his hair. 
In reply to Capt Slow: Nonsense! Hess's wife isn't a redhead, mine is. Pluss The good doctor has all his hair.
pilotbraden wrote: I forgot to add that 30-06 and .22 are available at most gas stations and hardwares in N Michigan and most rural areas
That is one of the biggest problems with the Mosin is I cannot find ammo for it locally, in fact when I asked the guy at the local gun shop for it he almost looked offended 
.
Anyway I just ordered 2 cans (880 rounds) of Russian light ball steel core. Figure I will crack one can open to shoot and stash the other can in the SHTF stash.
Mosin's right now are a bargain. And the ammo is dirt cheap in quantity. Corrosive, of course, but still dirt cheap. For a wtshtf rifle, you could do a lot worse. And you can play with it (unloaded, of course and pointing in a safe direction) while watching Enemy at the Gates. This guy: http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/featured/white-death-simo-hayh/20951 shot 500+ zombies with a Mosin, and 200 with a sub gun in 100 days. That's a bunch of zombies. And he preferred iron sights because he was lower to the ground (or snow in this case) that way.
I hear a M1 Garand is good for zombies out to 6-800 yards.
For zombies? I don't know. But if I were putting together a realistic WTSHTF or bug-out kit, I'd go with a pump-action 12 gauge shotgun and a 9mm or .45 pistol. I'd say that if you were staying put, you should have a wider variety, as you might come across plenty of one kind of ammo and not another. If you have something in every or most popular calibers, you'd be ok. Then again, if you're moving, you'd want a few lightweight things. Focus on moving quickly. As for hunting or small game, I'd just trap. You don't need to hit a deer. You can forage if you know what you're doing and traps will catch small game while you are setting camp or doing camp errands. Carry some freeze-dried stuff for reserve, keep eating what you can forage/trap, and you won't need to lug around a variety of 10lb rifles and ammo.
We had this discussion almost weekly for years at MidwayUSA, then we got tired of it.
Col. Cooper held that every household should have four firearms at a minimum:
I'm quite confident he would have recommended a "Scout" rifle chambered in 308 Winchester and a 45 ACP 1911. In a generic SHTF conversation almost any combination of those four firearms (assuming good cindition, user familiarity, etc) should do the job. Personally, IMHO, if you don't have at least 1000 rounds of ammo for each on hand in your bug-out kit you don't have enough ammo.
Personally, I like that concept and I have several variations available, depending on the philosophical point of contention in question. If ammo availability is the concern, I've got alternative chamberings to cover it. I like the idea of handgun/carbine chambering commonality so I've got a 357 L-frame and a 16" Rossi lever-action dedicated for my wife's use (she prefers revolvers to semiautos). We've also got a K-frame .22 and rimfire bolt-actions for our two girls when they're old enough to use them.
The discussion of cartridge preference is, to me, a waste of time. If you hit a zombie (or anyone else) center-mass with any Major rifle caliber from the last 100 years they're generally all done. I don't care if its 7mm Mauser, 8mm Hungarian, 7.62x54 Rimmed, 30-06, 308 Win or 7.62x39mm. I don't discount the advantages (low recoil and carrying weight) of the .223 and I certainly don't want to get shot with one, but as I don't plan on walking 20 miles with 20 full 30-round magazines. I'll stick with Cooper's philosophy and build a "Scout-y" Ishapore Enfield (very much like the nifty Mosin-Nagant pictured earlier) as my primary. For a secondary I'll have either a SOCOM 16 or the LR-308, as soon as I have a chance to clean them, shoot a few hundred rounds and decide which I like best.
As soon as I can I'm buying some remote acreage for "retirement" and that will be our rally point. If I were able to buy a plot next door to our good Dr. Hess that would be very tempting. However, I suspect it'll be further north than him.
If I had no guns at all, I'd probably start with the 12 gauge in either a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500, especially if I were in an urban area. Then I get a 22 rifle (almost certainly a Ruger 10/22) and a bunch of ammo. THEN I'd worry about the rifle/handgun combo. My SHTF battery would then probably hinge on whether I were holing up in a urban or rural area. If its urban I go with an intermediate rifle (lever action 30-30 or SKS or AR-15) or pistol-caliber carbine. If rural its a Major caliber.
For those of you who don't have a rifle yet, a surplus bolt-action Mosin-Nagant or Mauser is an excellent inexpensive start (unless you take the good Dr.'s advice on a Savage Model 10 or 110 chambered in 308 Win). For handguns, to me there are really only two choices: 4" 357 revolver (a used but good condition S&W or Ruger) or 1911 Government in 45 ACP. I'm sympathetic to those who like Glocks/etc. but I've yet to encounter one that I like. To each his own.
well, if we are after zombies:
course, youd have to hack off all those pesky safety chains
speaking of cahins.. actually here is the one I was looking for, spins a drum of chains
Tetzuoe is featuring a mine roller and a mine flail above, designed to find and explode anti-tank and anti-personnel mines respectively. They don't work as well as advertised on mines, but I've not seen them used on zombies yet- I'm sure they'd be bang up for the job....
Rifle? Handguns? For a zombie apocalypse? You guys have it all wrong. I'm reaching for my Remington 870 Express Magnum. Reliable as hell, can be fixed with pocket knife tools if it does break, it's a magnum so if all I can scrounge from the ruins of Bob's Gun Shop is 3" shells I'm still golden, and a 5-round magazine. Oh, and shells put large holes in zombies, maximizing your chances of disabling them. And if you get the zombies arranged correctly, you can probably take out two or even three at a time!
And of course if I run out of ammo, it's heavy enough I can use it as a club.
http://www.redstick-firearms.com/firearms2/firearms.html
12 guage AK supressed. Lets get it on. FN 5.7 on the hip.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Amphibious-LARC-LX-60-ton-Rescue-Salvage-Supply-Cargo_W0QQitemZ250611533838QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitary_Vehicles?hash=item3a599c880e
S2 wrote: Tetzuoe is featuring a mine roller and a mine flail above, designed to find and explode anti-tank and anti-personnel mines respectively. They don't work as well as advertised on mines, but I've not seen them used on zombies yet- I'm sure they'd be bang up for the job....
I heard that the chain flail worked really well to clear mines until They figured out that they should put the fuse/trigger 10-20 feet after the actual mine.
In reply to Knurled:
That, plus it really sucks when you find out that the flail also managed to fling live AP mines over into the section you just finished clearing.
It's a blast
! Hopefully you don't proof with your feet...
edit: Ya gotta admit- it looks fun as heck to drive
"I hear" that SOG has M1 Garands on sale for $429 ea. That's dirt cheap, probably less than I paid for mine adjusted for inflation from CMP. No idea on details. Couple of people on other boards have ordered them.
For me.... It's simple.
I've got a benelli 12g semi-auto and a Rugger 22... If all else fails, my SKS comes out! (100 round barrel clip FTMFW)!
In reply to Dr. Hess:
I shot an M1 years ago, the guy in the next lane at the range traded a mag in dad's mini-14 for a couple clips in his Garand. My shoulder hurt for a couple days, and I got a bit of a black eye. I think I was doing it wrong. 
Dr. Hess wrote: "I hear" that SOG has M1 Garands on sale for $429 ea. That's dirt cheap, probably less than I paid for mine adjusted for inflation from CMP. No idea on details. Couple of people on other boards have ordered them.
just bought one from CMP sans wood/rear sight for not much less than that. If you're a gun guy, a Garand is a must-have item in the long term...
Jake wrote: In reply to Dr. Hess: I shot an M1 years ago,... My shoulder hurt for a couple days, and I got a bit of a black eye. I think I was doing it wrong.
You were, but I'm sure it was entertaining for the Garand owner.
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