Best car in the world

This is fun. It always impresses me with what a cerebral group we have here. Drinking beer in the $20XX Challenge parking lot, this wisdom seems somehow muted. Okay, we are going to start putting a list of contenders together and now we need a definitive list of parameters that are important to making a car, the best car in the world. At some point, we may have to divvy this up into classes or budget levels. I might even be happy to pin this down to best practical and impractical and under or over $10,000. Does this help?

Argo1 wrote: I think it's the ultimate question that can't be answered. The best car for what? Made when? For how much? I think a better question and maybe a better article might be the top 10 (25...50...whatever) enthusiast cars of all time. Now you can take input. Now there is room for the Miata and the M3, the 240z and the 911. Which were clearly standouts and groundbreakers for their type and time?

While I get this, trying to answer the un-answerable is fun. Just ask the boson folks from last week. Yes, you could do a top ten, top 5, whatever. But if you had to boil it down to one. The greatest car ever. Taking into consideration everything we've been talking about. That's pretty fun.

Tim, I do like the over under idea. Best under $10k, best over $10k but under lets say $50k. And from that you pick one. Hell, I'm willing to write the article if you like, no charge

(kidding about the no charge bit)

Everytime I read the thread topic for some reason it comes across in a Jeremy Clarkson voice in my head

Jeff wrote:

Argo1 wrote: I think it's the ultimate question that can't be answered. The best car for what? Made when? For how much? I think a better question and maybe a better article might be the top 10 (25...50...whatever) enthusiast cars of all time. Now you can take input. Now there is room for the Miata and the M3, the 240z and the 911. Which were clearly standouts and groundbreakers for their type and time?

While I get this, trying to answer the un-answerable is fun. Just ask the boson folks from last week. Yes, you could do a top ten, top 5, whatever. But if you had to boil it down to one. The greatest car ever. Taking into consideration everything we've been talking about. That's pretty fun. Tim, I do like the over under idea. Best under $10k, best over $10k but under lets say $50k. And from that you pick one. Hell, I'm willing to write the article if you like, no charge (kidding about the no charge bit)

I'd say a best under $10K, best under $30K, and best under $50K.

Just so you know, you most likely will pick what is certainly NOT the best car in the world from using these methods.

From research we know the human brain is incapable of considering more than seven elements plus or minus two. You have already defined a large number of variables on which to choose a car, both objective and subjective. Using this kind of formula invariably chooses the kind of car that the formula deems "best," and we, as humans, intuitively know is "not best" but can't explain exactly why, especially given that the formula says it's so.

Actually, forcing someone to defend their choice of "what is best" has been shown to influence people into making poorer choices than they otherwise would have. In one study, it was shown that introspective justification of the choice made people more likely to choose this poster over a Rembrandt:

You might be better off deciding via an emotional response, maybe with a NCAA-like grid. Or you could use the formula, and end up with this:

I think many of you are missing the overall picture and as previously stated there is no perfect car for everyone. I look at this like............If you had to live with one vehicle for five years that you had to buy yourself (new), insure yourself, drive daily, autocross, HPDE (maybe), take the kids to school, go grocery shopping and to Home Depot in, take family vacations in, drive in the dry, wet, snow, ice, 50-100 mile daily commute in, is reliable and fairly economical and just generally is good to own and work on and wax, and change the oil and satisfies your automotive cravings with so you don't feel like you are driving an appliance. What would it be? Obviously that narrows down the choices considerably.

Feedyurhed wrote: I think many of you are missing the overall picture and as previously stated there is no perfect car for everyone. I look at this like............If you had to live with one vehicle for five years that you had to buy yourself (new), insure yourself, drive daily, autocross, HPDE (maybe), take the kids to school, go grocery shopping and to Home Depot in, take family vacations in, drive in the dry, wet, snow, ice, 50-100 mile daily commute in, is reliable and fairly economical and just generally is good to own and work on and wax, and change the oil and satisfies your automotive cravings with so you don't feel like you are driving an appliance. What would it be? Obviously that narrows down the choices considerably.

4dr TDI/5spd swapped VW Rabbit caddy? WRX swapped Subaru Brat?

2006 Saab 9-2x Aero. or
2005 Legacy GT wagon or
2004-2008 Forester XT
After that bombshell, it would be cool to do a three-way story here.
First: The magazine does an article espousing their "best car in the world" (Jeremy Clarkson voice), based on the following criteria:
1. Straight line speed
2. Skidpad "g's"
3. track time at your kart track
4. subjective "comfort"
5. practicality (cargo space, number of occupants)
6. fuel efficiency
7. Ability to multi-task in motorsports (autocross, track day, rallycross etc)
8. All weather ability. Not sure how you would test this.

Second: Hold a competition for readers to bring their "greatest car in the world" where all these things are tested against the GRM car and one another.

Third: For every new car test, run the IOGCITW (Index of Greatest Car In The World) using all factors above.

I think you will find that it will be a Subaru, as even though you want it to be the E36, it's just not. I've got a 2002 WRX wagon, and it is the best all rounder in the world. My '95 M3 scrapes all the time, I worry about hitting potholes, I have to replace suspension bushings, watch for radiators bursting, and then listen to that angels berkeleying sound of the engine going past 7000 on the way to work and it's worth it. The Subaru never asked me to sacrifice. It has been dead nuts reliable for me in the 105k I've driven it since new. I look for potholes to hit with the 'baru, because I know it'll bounce off 'em and ask for more. I wish the engine were a little more "edgy", and when (if) this one kicks it, I think I can accomplish that with a 2.5 short block and my 2.0 heads, a bigger turbo, uppipe, downpipe, light flywheel, etc.

Feedyurhed wrote: If you had to live with one vehicle for five years that you had to buy yourself (new), insure yourself, drive daily, autocross, HPDE (maybe), take the kids to school, go grocery shopping and to Home Depot in, take family vacations in, drive in the dry, wet, snow, ice, 50-100 mile daily commute in, is reliable and fairly economical and just generally is good to own and work on and wax, and change the oil and satisfies your automotive cravings with so you don't feel like you are driving an appliance. What would it be?

I would probably do another Saturn wagon (modded). If I could only have 1 car for the next 5 years, I would want a wagon, and one that is very light, extremely easy to work on, and is very cheap to operate.

Do I think that's an appropriate answer for the "best car in the word"? berkeley no.

BMW 335D Wagon with the six speed manual. 30+ mpg highway, proven bmw handling etc, 250ish horsepower? and over 400lbs ft of torque?

Heck it would probably work as a tow vehicle ;p

The best car that I've ever owned was the '89 Civic Si that I bought new. I owned it for 12 years and 300,000 miles. I did everything with it, from commuting to auto crossing to using it as a truck when I built my house. It never broke, got great gas mileage and parts were cheap.

I loved my 2004 WRX as well, but it was a little more expensive to maintain and, as a sedan, wasn't as versitile. But, it was even more fun to drive in bad weather than good.

The best car in the world happens to be whatever I own at the moment.

Tim Suddard wrote: At some point, we may have to divvy this up into classes or budget levels. I might even be happy to pin this down to best practical and impractical and under or over $10,000. Does this help?

Yes, that would help a lot. What classes are you thinking of? (Track rat, Grand Tourer, etc.) Also, you may need to factor ages into the mix in some way....and some cars may be such a good value that they end up on multiple lists. A brand new miata would be in the >$10K, and an old one would be in the <$10K.

I would suggest a road cars only and a price cap at some GRM appropriate level. Maybe a special catagory of "Best car your spouse would never understand."

bastomatic wrote: You might be better off deciding via an emotional response, maybe with a NCAA-like grid. Or you could use the formula, and end up with this:

You've been reading this, eh?

BTW, I saw someone here offer the opinion that the GRM equivalent of the Juke-R would be an aztec with an LSx stuffed into it. Ever since I heard that, I've giggled maniacally whenever I saw an aztec. I hope someone does it.

1990 mazda protege with 323GTR drivetrain swap. 4 doors, awd, 27mpg if you're sane, total stealth, cheap insurance, 300+whp.

..."in the world.."

JoeyM wrote: A few of us are big fans of cheap, old, and obscure

I am now mad because that link didn't take me to a list of cheap, old, obscure cars that I could buy.

The true "best car in the world" candidates really haven't been mentioned as I'm guessing their price points are far beyond what registers at the usual GRM demographic.

I disagree. I think the best car in the world should be relevant to more than 0.05% of the world. I always find it more impressive to come up with an impressive result under serious price constraints than without, and honestly i find this to be the main problem with every young engineer ive ever met.. They all seem to have their head in the clouds and have little or no practical experience or understanding of what wont fly or is asinine in the 'real world'.

I think the best car cant be expensive the same way an old guy cant be a prodigy. Lots of people can do a lot WITH a lot, and it just isnt that special imo.

MY personal read on best car in the world doesnt really factor the driving experience of one particular car that heavily.. i tend to think more of the design's longevity and versatility and durability and accessibility to the most people.

Strange to say, the Volvo 240 might be at the top for me. The basic design had a 2 decade run, it's immensely practical, durable, versatile, accessible, easy to work on, has massive mod potential, and can still be cool almost 40 years later.

Id also put the DC3 Integra in there, not as high.

The XJ Cherokee, which is a bitter pill in a lot of ways, lol.

If you consider entire runs of vehicles, i'd say the air cooled VW, the Civic, the Caravan, and what we now call the Wrangler are on the list.

Dont want to write a huge post defending/explaining any of them until anyone asks, but ask away if interested.

Josh wrote:

JoeyM wrote: A few of us are big fans of cheap, old, and obscure

I am now mad because that link didn't take me to a list of cheap, old, obscure cars that I could buy.

Well, let's make a list

If you want to sell mags, make one list of great all-around cars, either price-dependent or not. This will stir up lots of debate either defending the list or complaining about it.

If you want to sell advertising, have different lists for every category. Then every manufacturer has a chance at winning something.

Overstuffed said: ...That's why Grassroots Motorsports chose the Overstuffed Fatboy 500 as 'America's Best Car For Picking Your Nose In.'

EvanR wrote: W123 Mercedes Diesel /end thread

Fixed that for you

The simple answer to this is what ever car makes you smile when you drive it.

My 924s is like that. Every time I trail brake into a corner and then squeeze off the power keeping it rite at the edge of adhesion I get a big smile and it is the greatest car in the world at that moment. When I am towing the 924s home from the track my Expedition is the best car in the world. When I was commuting back and forth from NY and Boston my 75 formula 400 would eat up the miles. It was a big motor heavy GT class car. The perfect highway car.

There is no correct answer to the question. Cars that try to do everything end up doing nothing particularly well. They are one big compromise. I equate this to All Season Radials. They suck in all seasons.

This thread makes me think of how my wife responds to my questions about things related to her Jewish heritage. She tells me that if you ask ten rabbis a question you will get eleven answers!

For me however, C5 Corvette with a trailer hitch.

Shouldn't the question be,"what single car most serves GRM nation best?" Sorry if that is too focused to sell magazines. What does your readership survey say about most owned vehicle of the greater GRM nation?

Ha... For me the Best Car In The World (BCITW) is the one that is paid for... Nuff' said...

AMC Eagle wagon. 258 I-6 will never die, AWD that puts every SUV on the road today to shame, lots of seating and storage space, can tow, rallycross, autocross, drag race, or go rock crawling AND tow your other race car there, too...