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Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
2/24/11 1:04 p.m.

Stock the Mustang chassis is absolute crap. I know this.

But modified it will be lighter than the F-Body and probably handle just as well. Not to mention cheaper.

Ian F
Ian F SuperDork
2/24/11 1:11 p.m.

I don't know enough about either to realy disagree with you, but auto-x results seem to say the F-body is a better base for an auto-x car. Remember, you can do those same upgrades to the better chassis...

I'm not sure I agree about cheaper either. I seem to see them for about the same prices around here.

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
2/24/11 1:19 p.m.

For a V8/manual trans F-Body the Mustang will be cheaper. All the stupid ones out here are automatics, V6's, or both. The closest I can find is a 3rd Gen TPI car with a 305/T5 combo for $4750.

Compared to a ready to go 5.0/T5 Mustang GT for $3500 that already has half the suspension work done?

I like F-Bodies, but they just don't exist up here, at least in my price range.

Apexcarver
Apexcarver SuperDork
2/24/11 1:33 p.m.

I used to run in STX with my 97 cobra, but I made the move to ESP.

The mustang is on the heavy side to really have a chance in STX, cant get enough tire within the rules (at least while I was there with the 245 width cap)

Here is what I would do.

Front suspension

Poly bushings, MUCH stiffer springs (at least 800lb-in to START in stock location.) Think about ground control spring setups. LARGE front swaybar (roll results in camber loss on this car to the point where the large front bar reduces understeer) CC plates, GOOD shocks (koni or Bilstien, others are $$$ or not that good) you want as much caster and negative camber as you can get (think -3 degrees camber)

Rear suspension

DONT GO IRS, first off, I dont think its class legal for STX (I dont recall update backdate being legal for ST) second off, its not faster

Ideally, go with a Steeda 5-link rear suspension (go for 5-link 1, not 5-link 2 better performance from 1, but have to terminate exhaust before rear axle) This is one of the few good parts in the Steeda catalog.

Diff

Either plan on replacing clutch packs on the LSD regularly (think yearly, possibly even more. It cant withstand the abuse for long) or upgrade to an Auburn Road Racers diff or Torsen T2R.

If going the repack route, go to Corner-carvers and research the alternate packing order for a tighter diff.

Engine- pretty self evident within the rules

you have to keep in mind I havent been tracking ST rules as far as mustangs go for awhile, so double check me.

For a wickedly fast ESP monster that is MUCH more fun add the following wish list

3.55 rear gear ratio ('00R update backdate)

Rear seat delete (00R update backdate)

lightweight flywheel

10.5 inch wide rims/ 315 series R-comps (fit with proper backspacing, new front studs, and minimal fender work) see awesome Pic

Consider building a 351 to 95R spec (update backdate)

also, check out this site. (I disagree with the IRS choice, I think the 5-link is going to be faster, its also ~50lbs lighter) http://ponycar.net/Kenny/

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
2/24/11 1:52 p.m.

Awesome!

Well I got more of the story on the car, and I think I'm going to pull the trigger on it. It's not STX legal and it would take too much to de-mod it, so into ESP I go.

95 GTS (yes, really!), under 80K miles, real Cobra wheels (17x8 or 18x8 IIRC), weld-in Jeg's 1/2 rollcage, G-Force harnesses, racing buckets, KYB's, Eibach's, complete bushing swap for urethane, 3-row aluminum radiator, dual Flowmasters, Cobra R front bumper, new clutch, and brand new paint, and comes with lots of spares.

He'll even deliver it.

LordTurbonia
LordTurbonia New Reader
2/24/11 2:04 p.m.

What's the weight difference between the Mod motors and the 5.0? I know the 5.0 is one of the lightest cast-iron V8 blocks.

Soma007
Soma007 Reader
2/24/11 2:22 p.m.
Javelin wrote: For a V8/manual trans F-Body the Mustang will be cheaper. All the stupid ones out here are automatics, V6's, or both. The closest I can find is a 3rd Gen TPI car with a 305/T5 combo for $4750. Compared to a ready to go 5.0/T5 Mustang GT for $3500 that already has half the suspension work done? I like F-Bodies, but they just don't exist up here, at least in my price range.

They are out there. I sold my '93 Trans Am in '06 for $3500. It had some good stuff on it too.

  • LT1, 6 speed (T56), hardtop (rare in a TA)
  • LS1 brakes front and rear
  • 3.42 rear end (vs 3.23 stock)
  • Torsen T2R diff
  • Koni fronts, Bilstien rears
  • Strano 35mm front bar
  • B&B Tri-flow catback
  • Ton's of recent maintance. Waterpump, optispark, bushings, etc.

The downside was is 218K miles and the clearcoat was starting to fade.

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
2/24/11 2:48 p.m.

I just got all the pics of the GTS, and is all I could do.

I think I've found my new AX car...

JFX001
JFX001 SuperDork
2/24/11 2:50 p.m.
Javelin wrote: Awesome! Well I got more of the story on the car, and I think I'm going to pull the trigger on it. It's not STX legal and it would take too much to de-mod it, so into ESP I go. 95 GTS (yes, really!), under 80K miles, real Cobra wheels (17x8 or 18x8 IIRC), weld-in Jeg's 1/2 rollcage, G-Force harnesses, racing buckets, KYB's, Eibach's, complete bushing swap for urethane, 3-row aluminum radiator, dual Flowmasters, Cobra R front bumper, new clutch, and brand new paint, and comes with lots of spares. He'll even deliver it.

Well done.

fastEddie
fastEddie SuperDork
2/24/11 3:37 p.m.
Javelin wrote: I just got all the pics of the GTS, and is all I could do. I think I've found my new AX car...

Why aren't they on here already?

Will
Will HalfDork
2/24/11 5:44 p.m.
Javelin wrote: TBird's also use a 7.5" gear vs. the Mustang's 8.8, had no factory LSD option (except maybe the Super Coupe, but good luck finding those), and used a ridiculous bolt pattern.

Hold on there. Only the NA V6 MN12s came with 7.5s. All of the V8 cars and SCs came with 8.8s. The LSD option was available on the V8 and SC. All MN12s use the silly 5x4.25 bolt pattern, but it's very easy to change that to 5x4.5.

OP, sounds like a neat car. I'm well familiar with the GTS cars and I nearly bought one a couple years ago. Based on Sam Strano's advice, though, I bought a 99 Z28. I think it's easier to set up the F-body for ESP, but there's just so much neat stuff you can do with the SN95 for UD/BD that I'd still like to have a 94-95.

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
2/24/11 6:28 p.m.

The V8's could come with a factory LSD? Are you sure? Huh, learn something every day.

Will
Will HalfDork
2/24/11 6:39 p.m.
Javelin wrote: The V8's could come with a factory LSD? Are you sure? Huh, learn something every day.

I'm positive it was an option, though I don't know how common it was.

Thinkkker
Thinkkker SuperDork
2/25/11 9:06 a.m.
LordTurbonia wrote: cough cough Cobra IRS swap cough

For GOD'S SAKE NO!!!!

If you cant do a proper 3 link, the poor mans will work. I havent looked at STX since they redid it some, but not sure what all you can do. I dont think a torque arm is legal, but I dont know.

Some guys have use "air" or at least styrofoam as a bushing since its unlimited on the drivers side and then delrin on the passenger to make the poor man's link. make sure you add a panhard though.

To win in STX I think for a stang you will need either a Bullitt or a new 5.0. You are down on power and the weight is up there. Have fun with it though if you want, but I dont think it will be a winning ST whatever car.

Slap in extra clutches into the rear and it will help.

Apex covers the gambit on them. I think ESP is a better class, but you need r-comps. Make sure you use the GT40's on the car! its a cobra part and legal. sorta. STX is wierd :)

imirk
imirk New Reader
2/25/11 3:25 p.m.

How would one of these do in AI? and is AI favorably classed in NASA Endurance racing (I think E1 would be competitive but not ES)

Dav
Dav New Reader
2/25/11 9:32 p.m.

IIRC, you cannot touch the rear LCAs in STX, but you can add a PHB.

a401cj
a401cj Reader
2/26/11 9:14 a.m.
Soma007 wrote:
Javelin wrote: For a V8/manual trans F-Body the Mustang will be cheaper. All the stupid ones out here are automatics, V6's, or both. The closest I can find is a 3rd Gen TPI car with a 305/T5 combo for $4750. Compared to a ready to go 5.0/T5 Mustang GT for $3500 that already has half the suspension work done? I like F-Bodies, but they just don't exist up here, at least in my price range.

They are out there. I sold my '93 Trans Am in '06 for $3500. It had some good stuff on it too.

  • LT1, 6 speed (T56), hardtop (rare in a TA)
  • LS1 brakes front and rear
  • 3.42 rear end (vs 3.23 stock)
  • Torsen T2R diff
  • Koni fronts, Bilstien rears
  • Strano 35mm front bar
  • B&B Tri-flow catback
  • Ton's of recent maintance. Waterpump, optispark, bushings, etc.

The downside was is 218K miles and the clearcoat was starting to fade.

hmmm...my '94 Formula had 3.42 stock. Loved that car. Honest to goodness it was 9/10's my '02 Z06. With a backseat

SilverFleet
SilverFleet HalfDork
2/26/11 10:48 a.m.

I've often toyed with the idea of dumping my 79 Trans Am that still needs some body/interior work and chassis mods for something like an early SN95 'Stang with the 5.0 or an LT1 Trans Am. Threads like this one don't help.

Keven
Keven New Reader
2/26/11 10:49 a.m.

Glad to see this thread. My first car was a 1994 Mustang GT which I set up for drag racing. At its best it was around 450 hp. Its been sitting in my grandma's garage since August 2008 and has been on the same tank of gas. I always wanted to get into Auto-x after I was done with school /CPA but I was worried that it would be too big of a boat to be any good. Looking for storage units around here so I can bring it back up and get back to work on it. Should be fun!

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