SCCA Road Racer Build

I'm thinking of building a car for SCCA road racing and autocross as my next project.  I've done some circle track and a couple restorations in the past.  This will be my first venture into the world of road racing.

I'd like to do a full-on build... gutted interior, complete roll cage, major suspension modifications, motor, etc...

Where I'm struggling is deciding what car to build on.  I don't want to spend much since it'll be just a shell.  I've found some cars for under a grand on my local Craigslist.  The two that are at the top of my list are a 2002 Mustang and a 2003 Monte Carlo.  Assuming I put equally badass motor and suspension on either car... it shouldn't matter much which I start with, right?  I think the biggest difference would be the Mustang has a 101" wheelbase where the Monte Carlo has 110".  And I figure the shorter would be better for twisty curvy racing.

I kinda want a car that I think will look good (to me).  I don't really dig the 80's and 90's Camaros.  I think the 2000's Monte's have promise because I could basically make it look like a Nascar, which I think is cool.  I'm not interested in racing a Miata.

Any thoughts on a good (and cheap) starting point for a full-on road race build?

Thanks,

Sal

Front wheel drive through a transmission that doesn't like stock power levels might not be the best thing for racing. I'm all about FWD racecars but maybe not the Monte. There are better chassis to start with. An SN95 is a proven choice. There are some suspension issues, quadra-bind rear for example, but there are good diy and aftermarket workarounds for them. If you want to be different and work through hurdles, Monte. If you want to hit the easier button, SN95.

BMW e46.

Cheapest starting point is a car already built. Go figure out what you want to race and with which org then go find something. As a new racer, it takes a lot stress off and gets you to the track a lot quicker. 

The way I see it, there are 2 approaches:

(1) figure out what class you want to run, then buy whatever car is most competitive in that class. If you can find one that's already built, then that's all the better. This is the "head over heart" approach and will save you money, time, and tears.

(2) if there's a platform you already love for whatever reason, then start with that and try to make it work. Don't expect to be competitive and you won't be disappointed.

I took the second approach with my vintage racer project (a 1987 Mercedes 190E 2.3-16 DTM replica). Totally illogical choice. And it's frustrating getting passed by guys in generic Spec E46s ... but whatever. I love the car and think it's badass.

Having done both autoX and SCCA road racing I can tell you the set ups are different. So which are you thinking of doing first? Also, are the tracks you will race at horse power tracks, think Road Atlanta, or handling tracks think Sears point.

The buy a built race car is good advise I've done it several times and am in the market now. But you will need to know what prep level you are shooting for. If you want or need you can always redo something so that it suits you. 

In reply to buzzboy :

Oh crap...  I'm still in the brainstorming phase and haven't actually looked under a newer Monte.  I had just assumed they were RWD.  That probably won't work because some of hte classes I was looking into had rules about not changing the engine orientation.  Doh!

Good catch!

In reply to LanEvo :

I think I'm more of the second approach.  I'm not really competitive.  Its mainly about the build and the experience for me.  As long as my performance isn't laughable :)

Have you considered the HPDE and time trials instead? If you start in HPDE you could likely use the Camaro you have and since it's not door to door racing and entry level classes require a point by for passing it's not competitive and no trading paint. Then you could just start now instead of waiting to find or build a car.

L5wolvesf said:

Having done both autoX and SCCA road racing I can tell you the set ups are different. So which are you thinking of doing first? Also, are the tracks you will race at horse power tracks, think Road Atlanta, or handling tracks think Sears point.

The end goal is to do some road races.  The autoX is more of a means to shake down the car and work on driving skills.  I expect it to take some time to get the licenses to do road racing.

NOT A TA said:

Have you considered the HPDE and time trials instead? If you start in HPDE you could likely use the Camaro you have and since it's not door to door racing and entry level classes require a point by for passing it's not competitive and no trading paint. Then you could just start now instead of waiting to find or build a car.

That's not a bad idea.  Thanks!

The real questions is:  What (class) do you want to run?  SCCA has about 80,000 classes, but only a handful are full on any given weekend..  Do you have a target in mind?   Success in this venture would come from figuring out where you want to end up and then finding a car that you can max the ruleset in.  

There's stories to be had from trying to force the square peg into the round hole, but not a lot of trophies.

A 2002 Mustang would land in A-sedan would it not?

If you are only going to run SCCA regional races that I wouldn't worry about it being the most competitive car. My Datsun has never been nor will it be a front runner doesn't stop me from having a great time. I road raced and autocrossed the car for years and never worried about changing the set up. For local events it won't matter.

I am building a current Chump Car/Lemons car out of a 2002 Elantra and i can tell you first hand its a TON of work, time and money. If i could do it over again i would have bought an already built car and just redone things to suit. Seems like most of the time its just new belts, fire suppression and maybe a seat.

To give you a basic timeline of ours: we started late 2018 and are still in the building phase. Time is the hardest thing to come by these days. I wanted to get it done by June but kids, family, work and other projects have taken precedence over the Elantra.

Good luck and please post a build page when you do.

https://www.racingjunk.com/category/Road-Racing-Cars

Take a look through here. Lemon cars that didn't go racing but passed tech can be a great starting point for getting on track safely and cheaply.

I have built a few cars now and it always seems to be two to three years of weekends and evenings to be track ready. You could shorten that considerably if you can find something already caged, which would just leave the fun part. 

BTDT and got the t-shirt.

I like building cars. Building race cars is fun because you pull out things and throw them away and get to drill holes wherever you damn well please. That part is fun.

What isn't fun is the bank account draining reality of building one from scratch. I built a Spec E30 from a $1100 donor with a used seat and a roll bar kit we cut and welded in for 'free' labor and I still wound up being into the thing for about eleven or twelve grand. I'd buy someone's non-competitive but properly caged car and work on fixing whatever they don't have dialed in vs starting from scratch if I ever were to do it again. A cage install is 2-3 grand alone.

With SCCA you definitely want to select a class first and figure out if anyone even races in it. I personally prefer NASA and their class structures especially the 'spec' classes. I'd rather compete against drivers than engineers and the spec classes are usually far less expensive to be in.

If I'm starting off in road racing I'd want a car that is cheap to run with affordable consumables (tires especially) like E30, or Miata. V8 cars are going to burn through expensive rubber and brake pads much more frequently.

W2W is a totally different experience from HPDE or time trials. It is not for the faint of heart and you'd really better anticipate having your car wrecked at some point even in a group that is respectful. Stuff happens. Also take note of the entry fees; they are not insignificant. I got tired of $2000 race weekends after a couple years and gave it up. The other thing is you will quickly learn that to run at the front you have to have a degree of fearlessness and disregard for your equipment because that is the level the top finishers run at.

Hey Sal - if you're looking at American Sedan, we'd love to have you join up!  As a guy who has some experience raising an old road race car from the dead, I'd take whatever budget and timeframe you're thinking it will take and triple it.    That said, there's nothing that will beat the experience once it's on the track, especially if it's a loud 'Murican V8.

The guy that has been helping me with my car has at least one and possibly two ASedan Camaros for sale.  I forged ahead and we built mine, but in hindsight, buying one ready to go would have gotten me on the track faster and saved thousands (and more thousands) of dollars.

SCCA has pretty specific classing, so I'd recommend looking at the current General Competition Rules to figure out what class you're interested in running.  ASedan is a lot of fun, but there are a number of V8 RWD classes if you want to go more tube frame vs production chassis.

I think I've got it figured out.  I found a used K&N road race car for pretty cheap.  It is a legit NASCAR roller.  All I need to do is drop in a motor/tranny and start having fun doing Time Trials and such.  Prolly won't be competitive with others in my class but that isn't really the goal anway :)  This is exactly the sort of thing I was looking to get into...

Thanks for all the support and suggestions!  I'll be out there tomorrow to see the car and hopefully close the deal.

https://live.staticflickr.com/5290/5263352950_e47ffd37e6_b.jpg

Thanks,

Sal

Congrats - that looks fun!  I think it ends up classed in SPO in SCCA?  ASedan runs with ex-NASCAR and NAS-Truck (?) in the same run group, and those SPO cars are very quick.  It's humbling when you think you're running a quick lap and one of those (or the GT1/GT2 cars) goes by like you're parked.  

Either way, please do a build thread...would love to see that built up and terrorizing SCCA track events.  

Having built a Crapcan racecar that absolutely no one races (outside of Honda during the peak of touring car racing in the 90s), I highly suggest going with something that's A) Already built or B) Has a ton of aftermarket support i.e. the SN95 Mustang. 

W-body GM cars are not good platforms to start with for competitive road racing. I would toss that idea off the boat with a pallet of bricks. 

Should be fun...for what it's worth, driving stock cars on road courses was always one of my favorite things to do in iRacing.